How the Typical Mountain Biker Treats Horses and Other Trail Users

On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:50:06 -0800 (PST), Kayak44
wrote:

On Feb 5, 9:00*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:19:32 -0800 (PST), Kayak44





wrote:
On Feb 5, 11:12*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:26:44 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Yes, of course. But humans are too selfish to do so.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Leave it to a selfish mountain biker to miss the point. If you
actually believed what you just said, you would have committed suicide
long ago.

You should re-check the groups you are cross posting to before you
call me a mountain biker, otherwise you are nothing more than a liar.

I never called you a mountain biker. That would be pretty low,
wouldn't it?


Not any lower than lying.

You were corresponding with me when you wrote: "Leave it to a selfish
mountain biker to miss the point".

Are you now insinuating that the remark wasn't directed towards me?
Was someone else involved in that exchange of communication whose
information is hidden?

No, your remark was clearly intended for me. You are starting to come
off as a manipulative person.

Where do you see me calling you a mountain biker? You are fantasizing.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Feb 6, 9:30*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:50:06 -0800 (PST), Kayak44





wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:00*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:19:32 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 5, 11:12*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:26:44 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Yes, of course. But humans are too selfish to do so.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Leave it to a selfish mountain biker to miss the point. If you
actually believed what you just said, you would have committed suicide
long ago.

You should re-check the groups you are cross posting to before you
call me a mountain biker, otherwise you are nothing more than a liar.

I never called you a mountain biker. That would be pretty low,
wouldn't it?

Not any lower than lying.

You were corresponding with me when you wrote: "Leave it to a selfish
mountain biker to miss the point".

Are you now insinuating that the remark wasn't directed towards me?
Was someone else involved in that exchange of communication whose
information is hidden?

No, your remark was clearly intended for me. You are starting to come
off as a manipulative person.

Where do you see me calling you a mountain biker? You are fantasizing.

Judging by that picture of you in the devil thong chasing a cyclist,
it's obvious the only person fantasizing is you.

On Feb 5, 5:26*am, Kayak44 wrote:
OnFeb4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:





On Wed, 4Feb200916:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
OnFeb3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3Feb200905:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Selfish people like mountain bikers can't understand doing anything to benefit some
one else, or wildlife.

See above.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Not funny. Polio still exist. Many that contracted it are now
experiencing a secondary reoccurance of it. Also, NO vaccine is 100%
effective. This has happened to some of my patients.

On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:14:43 -0800 (PST), Kayak44
wrote:

On Feb 6, 9:30*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:50:06 -0800 (PST), Kayak44





wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:00*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:19:32 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 5, 11:12*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:26:44 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
On Feb 3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Yes, of course. But humans are too selfish to do so.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Leave it to a selfish mountain biker to miss the point. If you
actually believed what you just said, you would have committed suicide
long ago.

You should re-check the groups you are cross posting to before you
call me a mountain biker, otherwise you are nothing more than a liar.

I never called you a mountain biker. That would be pretty low,
wouldn't it?

Not any lower than lying.

You were corresponding with me when you wrote: "Leave it to a selfish
mountain biker to miss the point".

Are you now insinuating that the remark wasn't directed towards me?
Was someone else involved in that exchange of communication whose
information is hidden?

No, your remark was clearly intended for me. You are starting to come
off as a manipulative person.

Where do you see me calling you a mountain biker? You are fantasizing.

Judging by that picture of you in the devil thong chasing a cyclist,
it's obvious the only person fantasizing is you.

Of course that's not me, LIAR (if you aren't a mountain biker, why do
you need to lie???). You have no idea who it is.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 20:52:56 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 5, 5:26*am, Kayak44 wrote:
OnFeb4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:





On Wed, 4Feb200916:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
OnFeb3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3Feb200905:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Selfish people like mountain bikers can't understand doing anything to benefit some
one else, or wildlife.

See above.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Not funny. Polio still exist. Many that contracted it are now
experiencing a secondary reoccurance of it. Also, NO vaccine is 100%
effective. This has happened to some of my patients.

Whom are you talkig to?
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Feb 6, 11:52*pm, wrote:
On Feb 5, 5:26*am, Kayak44 wrote:





OnFeb4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:

On Wed, 4Feb200916:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
OnFeb3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3Feb200905:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Selfish people like mountain bikers can't understand doing anything to benefit some
one else, or wildlife.

See above.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not funny. Polio still exist. Many that contracted it are now
experiencing a secondary reoccurance of it. Also, NO vaccine is 100%
effective. This has happened to some of my patients.- Hide quoted text -

Try and get the true point here before making assumptions that it was
an attempt at humor.

Of course it's not funny, it's absurd, but even more absurd is Michael
J. Vandemans response to the suggestion, he said "Yes, of course. But
humans are too selfish to do so."

Someone makes a totally absurd suggestion ( to make a point) and
another actually agrees with it, that's where you should be focusing
at this point, "PhD believes we should restore polio".

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 07:18:42 -0800 (PST), Kayak44
wrote:

On Feb 6, 11:52*pm, wrote:
On Feb 5, 5:26*am, Kayak44 wrote:





OnFeb4, 11:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:

On Wed, 4Feb200916:18:31 -0800 (PST), Kayak44

wrote:
OnFeb3, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 3Feb200905:50:45 -0800 (PST), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. *I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. *snip BSTwo horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. *I rest my case."

2000 lbs of horses on a trail, imagine the damage cause by those
animals and yet Michael J. Vandeman is defending them instead of
trying to get them banned.

Horses are native to North America and have a right to go wherever
they like. Bikes have no rights whatsoever. DUH!

But you claimed the native horses were wiped out by early humans,
these are not native horses, thus they do not belong.

We need to restore the horse to North America, just as we need to
restore the grizzly to California, because we wiped out both of them.

Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Humans belong here a heck of a lot less than horses.

If you really believed that, you would have removed yourself from this
planet a long time ago. You're still around because you are selfish.

Selfish people like mountain bikers can't understand doing anything to benefit some
one else, or wildlife.

See above.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not funny. Polio still exist. Many that contracted it are now
experiencing a secondary reoccurance of it. Also, NO vaccine is 100%
effective. This has happened to some of my patients.- Hide quoted text -

Try and get the true point here before making assumptions that it was
an attempt at humor.

Of course it's not funny, it's absurd, but even more absurd is Michael
J. Vandemans response to the suggestion, he said "Yes, of course. But
humans are too selfish to do so."

Someone makes a totally absurd suggestion ( to make a point) and
another actually agrees with it, that's where you should be focusing
at this point, "PhD believes we should restore polio".

You make no sense whatsoever. Try writing in English.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:26:44 -0800 (PST), Kayak44 wrote:
Maybe we should also restore polio while we're at it.

Yes, of course. But humans are too selfish to do so.

And should we re-release smallpox?

-Beej

On Feb 7, 1:21*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
You make no sense whatsoever. Try writing in English.

Mike, you cannot successfully debate the merits of own points, flawed
as they are, let alone refute the merits of someone else's points. You
should avoid ad hominem arguments, although it would also silence you
if you did.

Chris

On the other hand the horse would not be alive excep for the one who
rides them for sport. There's not many wild horses around hear. -
Cappy



On Feb 2, 5:18*pm, bluezfolk wrote:
On Feb 1, 12:26*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:





On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:35:41 -0800 (PST), bluezfolk
wrote:

On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Personally I've always considered riding a horse as being cruel to an
animal. *Making a 1000 pound horse carry 200 pounds of rider and
saddle etc. is like making a 200 pound human carry 40 pounds for no
reason. *Try walking around all day with a 40 pound pack on your back,
it gets tiring.

If tou ACTUALLY cared about horses, which you don't, you would
advocate banning mountain biking.

40 pounds for a 200-lb human is quite a light pack! I routinely carry
more than 1/4 of my weight for backpacking. You are only demonstrating
your ignorance.

Eric

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

So make that 50 pounds, but the horse has no choice whether or not to
carry it, you do. *I guess you don't really care about horses either,
since they aren't "wildlife", just extremely dumb animals.

Eric

Eric