Electric Bikes

On 6/2/2021 1:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2021 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology
since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid
battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to
top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike
in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of
capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a
short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when
they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all
the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not
often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never
seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any
circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll
to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know.
Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design
stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every
single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will
be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man
who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors
were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being
able to charge in minutes and not have any components that
chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly
certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other
issue is that then all the electric vehicle commuters will
want to recharge in 10mins after they got home around 6pm so
they can drive to a nice restaurant with their spouses.
Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the power
grid and ... po0f :-)


So I guess it's inherent and structural that we can't really judge
electric vehicle owners and their anger management failures

https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/e-bike...ould-kill-you/

Idiots abound.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/2/2021 4:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if
was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a
Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the
garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short
ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect
to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to
catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid
but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to
make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to
charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically
degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be
the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The
fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to
charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the
same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.

One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 08:56:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)

Years ago there was an article in scientific some magazine which
described a scenario of electric cars in Los Angeles. It assumed that
the minimum acceptable electric car would be about the size of a V.W.
Bug and that minimum range was something like 50 miles out and back
and I assume, that long ago, Lead-Acid batteries. The author then
calculated the electrical requirements when everyone arrived home and
plugged in their electric car to charge and there wasn't sufficient
electrical power in L.A. to provide it :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:12:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.

Back when I lived on a sailing yacht I got quite interested in off
grid living and read a number of articles about it and an interesting
fact was that every one of these off-grid people had a liquid fuel
fired generator set out in the back yard :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:25:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/2/2021 4:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if
was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a
Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the
garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short
ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect
to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to
catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid
but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to
make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to
charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically
degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be
the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The
fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to
charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the
same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.

One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Out of curiosity has your acquaintance ever calculated the pay back on
the system?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/2/2021 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:25:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Out of curiosity has your acquaintance ever calculated the pay back on
the system?

Not as far as I know, and I doubt the payback matters to him. He's
extremely committed to environmental issues. For him, his system is just
The Right Thing To Do.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:25:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2021 4:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if
was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a
Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the
garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short
ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect
to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to
catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid
but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to
make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to
charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically
degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be
the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The
fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to
charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the
same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.
One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Until the solar cells have to be replaced. Then the hammer falls. When I attended a solar fair the salesmen were busy telling everyone that the cells lasted for 20 years. I went back and talked to the engineer who worked at that company. He said, 5 years until the output drops 50%, another 5 years for another 50% and by 15 years the output was so low that you weren't really getting any power out of them. And he said that this would only work if you kept the cells clean and in most places dust collects on the cells and must be carefully cleaned off. They took aerial shots of the so-called "solar farms" and they were broken down and falling apart within 5 years. Thermal expansion and contraction in the very hot and then very cold desert areas is not good for them.

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:03:51 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2021 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:25:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Out of curiosity has your acquaintance ever calculated the pay back on
the system?
Not as far as I know, and I doubt the payback matters to him. He's
extremely committed to environmental issues. For him, his system is just
The Right Thing To Do.

What is the environmental damage from the construction and then destruction of solar panel arrays? This is not a minor problem. Do you have any idea of the maintenance problem of large dams? I worked on a detector for finding leaks in a swimming pool and it turns out that they are quite common and account for most of the water loss in a swimming pool. They are not built that way but come into existence as water soaks into the concrete over time. Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not. They are even issuing reports that thorium reactors are a bad idea when they use known technology and the most common radioactive element on Earth. Instead they are putting huge sums of money into fusion which even if it is ever successfully built will yield a great deal less power per reaction. And the pressures required to obtain fusion will be so high that a reactor to power a city will contain a high enough containment vessel that the loss of containment will be an H bomb size explosion.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 8:12:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
(* We'll soon need a retronym for a regular bicycle. Once there were
only "guitars." Then they got electrified, and what was just a "guitar"
had to be called an "acoustic guitar.")

(Which kinda reminds me of this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TFTbT5eEM )

On that note, I sometimes wish for new consistent retroynms for second-person plural pronouns. Once we used 'thee/thou/thy' as singular pronouns, leaving 'you' as unambiguously plural. Then English started using plural forms to show deference, with the singular form taking on some condescending connotations. Now we've lost the singular forms (aside from seeing it in religious language), and what was just 'you' is now in some dialects y'all, yunz, yous[e], or "you lot".

-Luns

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 12:28:56 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2021 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology
since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid
battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to
top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike
in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of
capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a
short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when
they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all
the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not
often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never
seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any
circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll
to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know.
Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design
stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every
single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will
be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man
who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors
were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being
able to charge in minutes and not have any components that
chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly
certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other
issue is that then all the electric vehicle commuters will
want to recharge in 10mins after they got home around 6pm so
they can drive to a nice restaurant with their spouses.
Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the power
grid and ... po0f :-)

So I guess it's inherent and structural that we can't really
judge electric vehicle owners and their anger management
failures

https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/e-bike...ould-kill-you/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

White person! Not black! I thought only blacks had issues with cops. Of course the article does say "The still-at-large suspect" Guessing if he had been black, they would have shot him down in a hail of bullets and called out every SWAT team in the city. But being white I guess we can ignore it.. He's a good patriotic American, just like those patriots who broke into the Capitol by smashing windows and bludgeoning the cops with stanchions.

Big 5" wide mountain bike tire e-bike. I always find the rims on those bikes funny. Holes in the rim to allow the tube to bulge through. Weird.