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#42
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Road Discs
On 2017-09-11 16:18, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:08:35 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-11 12:56, wrote: [...] Tom I ride a cross bike with disk brakes off road, it doesn't get bumpier that that even here in pancake flat Netherlands. Like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y38JzV-ueXI We don't have any mountains that is true but I live in the hilly part of the Netherlands, Joerg is always talking about and close to Belgium where they have the worst roads. Yes, you have a mountain. Drielandenpunt and it's 321.5m. The Dutch insisted that the half meter was always mentioned. ... However the real famous mountains are only one day drive away. One or two times a year I spend a week there and that for almost 30 years so I did my share of climbing and descending. He, look even without any finger on the brakes: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ztXTQaSqdl7RRs8B3 Hey, my sister participated in the Maratona D'les Dolomites. Even on the descent of the Stelvio I and many others don't need more than two fingers on the brake lever (rimbrakes): https://photos.app.goo.gl/6yb8NpaAhgHp9s2w2 So why you replaced your disk brakes with V brakes remains a mystery to me. Ever since I rode a bike with disc brakes for the first time I never looked back and any new bikes must have discs or I won't buy. My two surviving bikes have discs -- one mechanical (commuter) and one hydraulic (gravel). In dry weather on the road, hydraulic brakes are overkill -- and in fact, I prefer dual pivots in dry weather because they are simple, work well and never drag unless I break a spoke, which is rare. Yes, on a road bike and maybe even CX I'd accept mechanical disc brakes. Never on a MTB though. Rim brakes are lighter, simpler (no bleeding, etc.), cheaper (pad costs), less noisy and great at stopping. Discs are better in wet weather, in slop and trail descending where braking is used to steer and grades are above 30%. They certainly make sense on a foul weather bike or mountain bike. My main reason for having a disc commuter is rim wear. Six months of riding in the rain will wear out rims after a few years (or less). In the 30 years of commuting before getting discs, I stopped just fine but wore out rims. That's the point most people do not calculate in, rim wear. Also, pads aren't more expensive for disc brakes if you buy Asian. The last ones cost me $2/pair. Versus $4/par for the cheapest Clarks rim pads which wear a whole lot faster. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#43
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Road Discs
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? |
#44
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Road Discs
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. I'll keep a closer eye on the racks at work. Last weekend, my riding cohort of engineers and industry folks were all riding CF forks, although one was riding a Ti frame last week -- and one had high-end steel. All were using rim brakes, except me on my gravel pig. I was getting throttled on the Saltzman Road climb, even though its a gravel road. Waaah! Get back here. I've got a gravel bike. I'm going to kick your ass! -- Jay Beattie. |
#45
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Road Discs
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:53:34 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:25:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 7:54 AM, wrote: On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:11:08 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/9/2017 3:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). At one place I owned I installed a device that automatically closes the garage door after three minutes unless you disable it. I used the timer for the light bulbs on the garage door opener to trigger a relay that shorted the open/close terminals momentarily. I need to build another one since I've done the same thing as you on occasion. The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! I SPIT on rim brakes. Go for a titanium frame with disc brakes. https://www.deanbikes.com/ Yeah, that's a really great idea when just the couplers on that bike are $900. For my entire totally reconditioned Pinarello I'll have less with new Campy wheels and a record group. Jay is not price-sensitive. All he has to do is bill a few more hours to pay for a Dean Titanium. And the couplers are not required. Even if I were made of money, I wouldn't spend a ton on a bike. I'm getting a pro deal on my next bike because I do work for the manufacturer -- and its a great bike. It will be my designated fast bike (or as-fast-as-I-get bike). It's replacing my SuperSix, RIP. -- Jay Beattie. Isn't that what Tom was talking about? Taking part of your pay in freebies from the company you are working for :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#46
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Road Discs
On 9/11/2017 4:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
My two surviving bikes have discs -- one mechanical (commuter) and one hydraulic (gravel). In dry weather on the road, hydraulic brakes are overkill -- and in fact, I prefer dual pivots in dry weather because they are simple, work well and never drag unless I break a spoke, which is rare. I'd not get hydraulic disc brakes on a road bike, even on a mountain bike mechanical discs are just fine. Do you have descents like Kings Mountain Road or Conzelman Road in Oregon? Rims get very hot on those descents. |
#47
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Road Discs
On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Well-stated. Pretty much what is said he https://www.rivbike.com/products/carbonomas-steel-fork-1-1-8-threadless-curved |
#48
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Road Discs
On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. |
#49
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Road Discs
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#50
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Road Discs
On 9/9/2017 6:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! [2nd try to get Eternal September to post this:] Downsides I've seen with discs: More more possibilities of weird problems - like my riding buddy whose disc on his brand new bike was making weird noises (from scraping) any time he pushed hard on a climb. Took three tries for the shop to fix it. More possibility of scraping in general. Saw that on another bike tourist's disc brake bike, a constant "Shh - shh - shh". He ignored the sound. It would have driven me nuts. Sudden brake pad wear, down to no brakes. Happened to one bike tourist we hosted, on a long hilly tour. If you get discs, carry spare pads. Far less lever force, which to me is a disadvantage. I've almost never needed to brake super-hard in an emergency; but if and when it comes up, I don't want a bike that locks its wheels with little lever pull. It would be like my dad's 1959 Pontiac, with hair-trigger power brakes. As you've said, discs have certain advantages. But it sounds like those advantages don't apply for this bike. And as a curmudgeon, I'm duty-bound to note that cyclists have managed the corresponding disadvantage of rim brakes for decades and decades. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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