Need advice on road bike frame material - alum, composite, or comp/steel

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:11:06 -0800, Mike wrote:

Thanks for the advice...interestingly, the stores seem convinced that
the frame material is very important.

But they are selling you something. They will convince you that aluminum
sucks. Reason: aluminum is cheap. What else they try to convince you
of depends on what they sell, and how far they think you'd go.


The shop I went to yesterday wants me to road test 4 different bikes -
all have similar components, wheels, etc - the difference is frame
material - aluminum, aluminum compact geometry, carbon,
carbon/steel...They think that I will be able to feel the difference of
the frames in ride quality, acceleration, etc. This makes sense to me.

How does it make sense? A frame is a rigid construction. How could it
improve acceleration? This presumes you have bikes that fit and are
equally equipped.

My current bike is a cro-moly and I don't feel that it dampens out alot
of the road vibration (which is why I bought it over an aluminum bike).

So, you were sold a load of bugle oil (steel frames are "compliant" while
still being stiff.....), and now you are listening to more. See above for
why you were told aluminum would not dampen the vibrations.

There is a secret way to dampen road vibrations. Get fatter tires.
Inflate them to recommended pressure, which is a bit lower than for skinny
tires. Best improvement in ride you can get.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

"David" wrote in message ...
"Ferenc Lovro" wrote in message om...

Aluminium frames can also be repaired easier.
Easier than composite frames? I've never repaired a CF frame, but I didn't
think it was supposed to be too hard. If the aluminum is heat-treated,

It's not hard to repair, all you have to do is to lay carbon fibre
sheets and resin on the cracked part of the frame. but finding small
cracks in layers invisible for the eye and laying carbon fibre
_properly_ needs a bit of experience, which can still rarely be found
today. when I said aluminium is easier to be repaired I ment that one
may find more mechanics/technicians who can weld/repair aluminium than
people who can safely repair carbon fibre. actually, my car's (fiero)
body had a crack, and I needed to take it to a yacht-maker to fix it.
)

----

Another consideration for selecting a frame is the rider's weight. If
I were overweighted, I definitely wouldn't choose a cf frame.

Frank
www.plitkorn.com

In article ,
says...
Thanks for the advice...interestingly, the stores seem convinced that
the frame material is very important.

The shop I went to yesterday wants me to road test 4 different bikes -
all have similar components, wheels, etc - the difference is frame
material - aluminum, aluminum compact geometry, carbon,
carbon/steel...They think that I will be able to feel the difference
of the frames in ride quality, acceleration, etc. This makes sense to
me. My current bike is a cro-moly and I don't feel that it dampens
out alot of the road vibration (which is why I bought it over an
aluminum bike).

That's reasonable, but for a fair test, make sure they put the same
tires and saddle on each one; otherwise those will have a far larger
effect than the frame itself.


--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:51:55 -0500, David Kerber
wrote:
says...
The shop I went to yesterday wants me to road test 4 different bikes -

That's reasonable, but for a fair test, make sure they put the same
tires and saddle on each one; otherwise those will have a far larger
effect than the frame itself.

More importantly, the same tire pressure, and the same geometry and
fit.

Maybe just have them use the same wheels, with tires already mounted
and pumped, on all four bikes. That will help even it out a bit,
although minor geometry differences...
--
Rick Onanian

But they are selling you something. They will convince you that aluminum
sucks. Reason: aluminum is cheap. What else they try to convince you
of depends on what they sell, and how far they think you'd go.


Well that is a bit cynical. Most shops I have dealt with are pretty responsive
and understanding about a person's budget and try to give them the most bang
for the buck. I have also noted that if a person gets an appropriate bike,
they might get hooked on the sport. In that case the happy customer will
probably come back for a higher priced ride.

"David L. Johnson" wrote in message .. .
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:11:06 -0800, Mike wrote:

Thanks for the advice...interestingly, the stores seem convinced that
the frame material is very important.

But they are selling you something. They will convince you that aluminum
sucks. Reason: aluminum is cheap. What else they try to convince you
of depends on what they sell, and how far they think you'd go.

So I am not going to notice any ride quality differences? Why do
people spend the big $$ for composite bikes? Is it merely a weight
issue and they are trying to save weight for racing?

The shop I went to yesterday wants me to road test 4 different bikes -
all have similar components, wheels, etc - the difference is frame
material - aluminum, aluminum compact geometry, carbon,
carbon/steel...They think that I will be able to feel the difference of
the frames in ride quality, acceleration, etc. This makes sense to me.

How does it make sense? A frame is a rigid construction. How could it
improve acceleration? This presumes you have bikes that fit and are
equally equipped.

The bike shop person was maintaining that he felt that his aluminum
bike was more responsive and more nimble than a cro-moly or the
steel/composite bikes. He said that when stand up in the pedals he
could feel a difference.

So in theory, if I am riding different frame material bikes all with
the same components, I will not notice any difference? By the way, I
am looking at bikes with Ultegra components so I should be o.k. on
components...

My current bike is a cro-moly and I don't feel that it dampens out alot
of the road vibration (which is why I bought it over an aluminum bike).

So, you were sold a load of bugle oil (steel frames are "compliant" while
still being stiff.....), and now you are listening to more. See above for
why you were told aluminum would not dampen the vibrations.

There is a secret way to dampen road vibrations. Get fatter tires.
Inflate them to recommended pressure, which is a bit lower than for skinny
tires. Best improvement in ride you can get.

When I bought my cro-moly bike back in 93, they said that it would be
more comfortable for longer rides than an aluminum bike which let you
"feel" the road. At the time, I didn't relaize the importance in
components and got low end.

On 12 Feb 2004 07:03:12 -0800, (Mike) wrote:
So I am not going to notice any ride quality differences? Why do

You might, but it may be a placebo issue. You expect something, and
it's easy to find when you do.

people spend the big $$ for composite bikes? Is it merely a weight
issue and they are trying to save weight for racing?

Sometimes weight, sometimes snobbery, often miseducation. Some
people just have the money to blow, too.

So in theory, if I am riding different frame material bikes all with
the same components, I will not notice any difference? By the way, I

Probably not; if you notice any substantial difference, then there's
likely something other than the frame material as a cause.

When I bought my cro-moly bike back in 93, they said that it would be
more comfortable for longer rides than an aluminum bike which let you
"feel" the road. At the time, I didn't relaize the importance in
components and got low end.

Components can be easily upgraded. Frames aren't too hard to replace
either.
--
Rick Onanian

In article ,
says...

....

So in theory, if I am riding different frame material bikes all with
the same components, I will not notice any difference? By the way, I
am looking at bikes with Ultegra components so I should be o.k. on
components...

To a large extent, yes, but the fit and geometry will differ between
manufacturers, and will make more of a difference than the material
they use. Any bike, no matter what the material will feel stiff if
they use larger, stiffer tubing, and will feel softer/more flexible if
they use smaller diameter, less stiff tubing.


....

When I bought my cro-moly bike back in 93, they said that it would be
more comfortable for longer rides than an aluminum bike which let you
"feel" the road. At the time, I didn't relaize the importance in
components and got low end.


--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:03:12 -0800, Mike wrote:

So I am not going to notice any ride quality differences? Why do
people spend the big $$ for composite bikes?

I sometimes wonder that. People spend big bucks for all kinds of things
that make little functional difference. A cheap car gets you to the
grocery store with the same level of efficiency and comfort as a luxury
car, but people do still buy luxury cars.

You would probably notice a difference between bikes with different
frames. The effect of those differences is small. I*have a ti road
bike, which I think is great. The nicest thing about the titanium is that
it needs no paint.

Is it merely a weight
issue and they are trying to save weight for racing?

Weight is overrated as a reason to go broke buying a bike. It's
impressive to your friends, but to spend $1000 extra to lose a pound off
the frame is an investment decision I would not make.

The bike shop person was maintaining that he felt that his aluminum bike
was more responsive and more nimble than a cro-moly or the
steel/composite bikes. He said that when stand up in the pedals he
could feel a difference.

So in theory, if I am riding different frame material bikes all with the
same components, I will not notice any difference?

The more you pay, the more you notice, but that does not make the
difference measurable.

When I bought my cro-moly bike back in 93, they said that it would be
more comfortable for longer rides than an aluminum bike which let you
"feel" the road. At the time, I didn't relaize the importance in
components and got low end.

But the components certainly don't affect "road feel". As I said before,
the biggest factor in riding comfort is the tires.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
_`\(,_ | little statesmen and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

David L. Johnson wrote:

racing. I currently have 3 bikes that I ride regularly, a titanium road
bike (Habanero), a steel track bike, and an aluminum mountain bike.

How long have you had the Habanero? What do you like/dislike about it?
I've considered one, but have been hesitant.


Thanks,

-=Dave=-