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#22
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Pedestrian mows down cyclist
On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:31:44 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester wrote: s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are. No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two major groups . The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of utility cyclists. Largely invisible on roads they go shopping and post letters. They push their bikes up hills, stop at junctions and traffic lights and give pedestrians on crossings priority and a smile. They go out in the same clothes they wear daily. At places like school entrances they will slow down and may dismount and walk not because they have to but because it is the right thing to do. Nobody minds them in the least. Wholly un represented by cyclist pressure groups they would like more cycle tracks and think 5 or 6 MPH is good going. Holland is still full of them. That is 99% of UK cyclists and the number of utility cyclists is increasing. The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans, rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and between 25 and 45. 0.1% of UK cyclists. They are the people who run things as "cyclists representatives" They hate mention of dedicated cycle lanes and go on about the "right to ride" as a quasi religious ideal. They think the very young and the elderly should stop being wimps and take the lane as vehicular cyclists 6ft in front of 40 tonnes of articulated lorry. Cyclists do have a right to use the roads. If decent cycle facilities are provided cyclists will use them. Obsessed with Strava times they go as fast as they can no matter how inappropriate that speed might be. It doesn't matter as speed limits don't apply to them. And no motorist in history has ever broken the speed limit. Why do you think speed li its were introduced? They know it is always safer to steam through red lights than it is to stop. Pedestrian crossings are invisible (as are any unfortunates trying to cross using them). The warning signal is a scream of "get out of my f*****g way cos I'm not f*****g stopping". You will rarely see them in Holland. There is a steep tree lined hill leading to a main road near here which illustrates the two types quite well. The utility cyclists wouldn't dream of cycling up it mainly because few could but also because they would see it as antisocial to hold up everyone else if they tried. They push their bikes up the footpath, stop for a bit of a rest on the bench half way up and have a chat with others stopped at the same place for the same reason. The Lycristas ride up in the middle of the road making it impossible for anyone to pass. They manage about 2MPH. Guess which group people remember? Keep your religious fantasies to yourself. |
#23
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Pedestrian mows down cyclist
On 16/03/2019 14:36, TMS320 wrote:
On 16/03/2019 13:35, RJH wrote: On 16/03/2019 09:29, TMS320 wrote: On 16/03/2019 00:11, TMS320 wrote: On 15/03/2019 22:03, Peter Parry wrote: There is a web site where the owner publishes the details of all the cycling fatalities he can find in local and national papers to act as a memorial to "cyclists down".Â* He generally puts the cause of the death,Â* The last time I looked early last year over a third of cyclist deaths occurred while they were on club rides, time trials, "training rides or similar club or racing related activities. In other words, a third occur at weekends. Which is 5/7ths of a week. Err... 2/7ths of the week. I am sure you get the drift. Besides, a Â*large number of weekend rides "club rides" are purely social - essentially rambling with bicycles. Your information is worthless. The few 'club' people I know have regular weekday evening rides, and Â*it's rare not to see solo/pair cyclists on the national speed limit Â*countryside roads just south of Sheffield at any time. The OP was concerned about people racing. Your club riders - what sort of racing are they doing? Apologies, no - I jumped on what I thought was a bit of thread drift and refer to competitive or hard-core amateur cyclists training. My idea of "national speed limit countryside roads" are generally single tracks. The roads where it is sensibly possible to do NSL I consider to be main roads. Are we talking about the same thing? No - NSL on half decent roads, but plenty of bends, dips/hills. So fast moving traffic mixes with slow moving, highly vulnerable, traffic TBH when I'm in the car I find them terrifying, difficult to pass safely, When you are not in danger why is it terrifying for you? I find the thought of injuring or killing somebody terrifying. Just do. and they seem focussed on riding the racing line and two or three abreast. The roads are also in pretty poor condition. As a cyclist, pretty much the last thing I'd do out of choice. Of course, I take the point that as a motorist I should only pass when it's safe. It's simply that the risk escalates on roads that weren't designed for this sort of mixed use. Would it be easier to overtake if they were riding inline 3ft from the kerb with 2 seconds gaps between them? If it's 2 or 3 and depending on the width of the road, probably, yes. Still a higher risk situation than I'd like. -- Cheers, Rob |
#24
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Pedestrian mows down cyclist
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote: On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:31:44 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote: On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester wrote: s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are. No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two major groups . The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of utility cyclists. Largely invisible on roads they go shopping and post letters. They push their bikes up hills, stop at junctions and traffic lights and give pedestrians on crossings priority and a smile. They go out in the same clothes they wear daily. At places like school entrances they will slow down and may dismount and walk not because they have to but because it is the right thing to do. Nobody minds them in the least. Wholly un represented by cyclist pressure groups they would like more cycle tracks and think 5 or 6 MPH is good going. Holland is still full of them. That is 99% of UK cyclists and the number of utility cyclists is increasing. It is more like 5% and decreasing. It is also predicted to fall further as many utility cyclists are age above 50 and approaching an age whether historically they start to give up with bikes. The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans, rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and between 25 and 45. 0.1% of UK cyclists. I'm afraid not, although the same influence of age will start to come through as for both groups the number of younger riders joining either group are falling. They are the people who run things as "cyclists representatives" They hate mention of dedicated cycle lanes and go on about the "right to ride" as a quasi religious ideal. They think the very young and the elderly should stop being wimps and take the lane as vehicular cyclists 6ft in front of 40 tonnes of articulated lorry. Cyclists do have a right to use the roads. Cyclist are usually well versed in their "rights", unfortunately not so on their responsibilities. The opposition of the major cyclists organisations to segregated facilities is well documented. Similarly the promotion of the idiotic "vehicular cycling" by Franklin and the CTC has done more to diminish cycling than anything else. If decent cycle facilities are provided cyclists will use them. But the cycling groups will argue against them (as they have since the very first one was made). They support the Hierarchy of Provision aimed at improving the lot for the vehicular cyclist and ignore the utility cyclist completely. |
#25
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Pedestrian mows down cyclist
On Sunday, March 17, 2019 at 4:30:18 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester wrote: On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:31:44 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote: On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester wrote: s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are. No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two major groups . The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of utility cyclists. Largely invisible on roads they go shopping and post letters. They push their bikes up hills, stop at junctions and traffic lights and give pedestrians on crossings priority and a smile. They go out in the same clothes they wear daily. At places like school entrances they will slow down and may dismount and walk not because they have to but because it is the right thing to do. Nobody minds them in the least. Wholly un represented by cyclist pressure groups they would like more cycle tracks and think 5 or 6 MPH is good going. Holland is still full of them. That is 99% of UK cyclists and the number of utility cyclists is increasing. It is more like 5% and decreasing. It is also predicted to fall further as many utility cyclists are age above 50 and approaching an age whether historically they start to give up with bikes. As you pointed out the vast majority of UK cyclists just get on with the job and have no interest in cycling issues. The number of such cyclists is increasing. The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans, rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and between 25 and 45. 0.1% of UK cyclists. I'm afraid not, although the same influence of age will start to come through as for both groups the number of younger riders joining either group are falling. The Lycra Brigade are more visible and more vocal but, as you point out, are a minority They are the people who run things as "cyclists representatives" They hate mention of dedicated cycle lanes and go on about the "right to ride" as a quasi religious ideal. They think the very young and the elderly should stop being wimps and take the lane as vehicular cyclists 6ft in front of 40 tonnes of articulated lorry. Cyclists do have a right to use the roads. Cyclist are usually well versed in their "rights", unfortunately not so on their responsibilities. The opposition of the major cyclists organisations to segregated facilities is well documented. Similarly the promotion of the idiotic "vehicular cycling" by Franklin and the CTC has done more to diminish cycling than anything else. Just like motorists who tell u s they have a RIGHT to drive 10%+2mph above the speed limit. I have never met a cyclist who attempted to murder me for walking in the road. If decent cycle facilities are provided cyclists will use them. But the cycling groups will argue against them (as they have since the very first one was made). They support the Hierarchy of Provision aimed at improving the lot for the vehicular cyclist and ignore the utility cyclist completely. Precisely. Pedestrians, Equestrians and Cyclists have a RIGHT to use roads. Motor vehicle operators are sponging freeloaders who are permitted to use roads under licence. |
#26
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Pedestrian mows down cyclist
On 16/03/2019 16:31, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester wrote: s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are. No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two major groups . The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of utility cyclists. Then such cyclists don't get £5m of cycle specific TP insurance. If they don't go far afield they don't get experience of riding on roads without pavements so they are the ones most likely to ride on them. Wouldn't you think? The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans, rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and between 25 and 45. That's ok then. By simple observation, the marge larger group that rides for pleasure do not festoon themselves with advertising slogans. |
#27
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Pedestrian mows down cyclist
On 17/03/2019 11:15, RJH wrote:
On 16/03/2019 14:36, TMS320 wrote: On 16/03/2019 13:35, RJH wrote: On 16/03/2019 09:29, TMS320 wrote: On 16/03/2019 00:11, TMS320 wrote: On 15/03/2019 22:03, Peter Parry wrote: There is a web site where the owner publishes the details of all the cycling fatalities he can find in local and national papers to act as a memorial to "cyclists down".Â* He generally puts the cause of the death,Â* The last time I looked early last year over a third of cyclist deaths occurred while they were on club rides, time trials, "training rides or similar club or racing related activities. In other words, a third occur at weekends. Which is 5/7ths of a week. Err... 2/7ths of the week. I am sure you get the drift. Besides, a Â*large number of weekend rides "club rides" are purely social - essentially rambling with bicycles. Your information is worthless. The few 'club' people I know have regular weekday evening rides, and Â*it's rare not to see solo/pair cyclists on the national speed limit Â*countryside roads just south of Sheffield at any time. The OP was concerned about people racing. Your club riders - what sort of racing are they doing? Apologies, no - I jumped on what I thought was a bit of thread drift and refer to competitive or hard-core amateur cyclists training. Yes, that would be transport riding. Some try to argue that a 30+ mile bicycle trip is not transport but they cannot explain why it is different to driving the same route. My idea of "national speed limit countryside roads" are generally single tracks. The roads where it is sensibly possible to do NSL I consider to be main roads. Are we talking about the same thing? No - NSL on half decent roads, but plenty of bends, dips/hills. So fast moving traffic mixes with slow moving, highly vulnerable, traffic What alternative do bicycle users have? Even where there is a good network of country lanes it often impossible to avoid a busy road for a mile or two. It is also noticeable how minor roads are becoming busier due to sat navs taking people off signposted routes because they have found one that is 3 inches shorter. On top of that, people are buying much bigger cars than they used to so reduced overtaking opportunities are partly self inflicted. TBH when I'm in the car I find them terrifying, difficult to pass safely, When you are not in danger why is it terrifying for you? I find the thought of injuring or killing somebody terrifying. Just do. Nice to hear. and they seem focussed on riding the racing line and two or three abreast. The roads are also in pretty poor condition. As a cyclist, pretty much the last thing I'd do out of choice. Of course, I take the point that as a motorist I should only pass when it's safe. It's simply that the risk escalates on roads that weren't designed for this sort of mixed use. Would it be easier to overtake if they were riding inline 3ft from the kerb with 2 seconds gaps between them? If it's 2 or 3 and depending on the width of the road, probably, yes. Still a higher risk situation than I'd like. Well, they could be helping you not to kill them. |
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