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washer with a little hook in rear fork tracks



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 25th 18, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,391
Default washer with a little hook in rear fork tracks

On 4/25/2018 10:29 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Fichtel & Sachs Duomatic has a brake arm.
Torpedo Dreigang has a flatted axle with
no-turn washer.


Ha ha!

Torpedo 3 has no-turn washers in the
flat axle/washer sense but not with the little
hook that the Shimano Nexus 3 no-turn
washers have.

And Dreigang has a brake arm as well!


There are several ways to extend axle flats with a no-turn
washer. None work any better than the others. It's a very
simple problem, as Frank clearly explained.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #12  
Old April 25th 18, 06:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 761
Default washer with a little hook in rear fork tracks

AMuzi wrote:

There are several ways to extend axle flats
with a no-turn washer. None work any better
than the others.


The reason to do it is

1) to keep it all together

and

2) if it gets loose, it won't get *that* loose?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #13  
Old April 25th 18, 09:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,391
Default washer with a little hook in rear fork tracks

On 4/25/2018 12:36 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

There are several ways to extend axle flats
with a no-turn washer. None work any better
than the others.


The reason to do it is

1) to keep it all together

and

2) if it gets loose, it won't get *that* loose?


23 April, in the first reply of this thread, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

"Internally geared hubs exert torque on the bike frame or
dropouts in certain gears. If the axle has flat surfaces and
the washer's inner hole has matching flats, I think the
washers you describe are a way the hub transmits that torque
to the frame."

With the patience of a saint, Mr Krygowski expanded on that
in his reply 24 April:

"With a derailleur hub or a single speed hub, the torque
applied to the wheel
by the chain and sprocket is the same value as the torque
applied by the
tire's friction force acting on the tire+wheel radius. Of
course, the dirctions
are opposite. We engineers would say the sum of the
torques must be zero, at
least for constant velocity situations.

When you shift an internal gear hub to a lower gear, the
gear hub applies more
torque to the wheel than is applied by the chain and
sprocket. That must be
generated by a reaction torque from the dropouts (or on some
hubs, from a
reaction arm attached to a chainstay, etc.). "


People have devised different styles to do that:
https://www.bicyclehero.com/media/ca...d/8/4/8475.png

http://images.modernbike.com/256/main_2126212142.jpg

https://fasterbikes.eu/738-thickbox_...pare-parts.jpg

http://www.ucycle.com/merchant/2856/.../Capture47.PNG

and of course the original design:
http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!BnNUOswCGk~$%28KGrHqUOKicEtluYLPB6BLio-KnEdQ~~_35.JPG


the exact shape doesn't matter except where axle-to-frame
position is critical, such as inside-cable designs like this:
http://cdn.modernbike.com/Product_Im...arge_49040.jpg

which are color-coded for various angles.




--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old April 26th 18, 08:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default washer with a little hook in rear fork tracks

AMuzi wrote:

People have devised different styles to do that:
https://www.bicyclehero.com/media/ca...d/8/4/8475.png

http://images.modernbike.com/256/main_2126212142.jpg

https://fasterbikes.eu/738-thickbox_...pare-parts.jpg

http://www.ucycle.com/merchant/2856/.../Capture47.PNG

and of course the original design:
http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!BnNUOswCGk~$%28KGrHqUOKicEtluYLPB6BLio-KnEdQ~~_35.JPG

the exact shape doesn't matter except where
axle-to-frame position is critical, such as
inside-cable designs like this:
http://cdn.modernbike.com/Product_Im...arge_49040.jpg

which are color-coded for various angles.


They look mostly the same to me. Partly flat
axle hole, sometimes with a protruding part
as well.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #15  
Old April 26th 18, 08:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default washer with a little hook in rear fork tracks

They look mostly the same to me. Partly flat
axle hole, sometimes with a protruding part
as well.


So the answer to my original post would/could
be, "the reason for the little hook is to hook
into the frame's dropout track in order to
further hinder the washer from rotating/falling
out, should the dome/axle nut come loose.
However to this end the hook is a second-rate
feature because the most important thing is to
have a flattened axle and no-turn washer, with
or without a hook, but always with a flattened
axle hole"?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
 




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