A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old April 12th 18, 08:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,061
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:38:13 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-12 09:57, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 7:19:15 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-11 19:39, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/11/2018 4:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-10 21:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:26:54 AM UTC-4, Jeff
Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 21:39:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Just before leaving for an important appointment Monday
I discovered my rear tire was flat. Didn't have a spare
tube and needed to leave within minutes. Pulled off the
clincher tire and tube and put on a spare tubular tire I
had hanging around. Worked perfectly and allowed me to
make the appointment on time. Weird combination = tubular
tire on a clincher rim but it worked well enough to get
me to and from the appointment. Cheers

Ummm... perhaps you should carry some duct tape. There are
some articles and a few videos on how it's done.
https://www.google.com/search?q=duct+tape+bicycle+tire+patch


I've only used it once, on someone elses tire, because the rubber
cement had dried out in three out of three patch kits
available. It apparently worked as there were no
threatening messages on my answering machine when I
returned home. The only real tricks that I recall are to
make sure the tube doesn't have any crud or baby powder on
the surface, and to NOT wrap the tape all the way around
the tube so that the tube can expand when pressurized.

I don't think it would have worked with narrow high
pressure tires. The one I patched was only pressurized to
about 50(?) lbs. I don't think the duct tape patch would
have held at 100 lbs.


On one long tour, our Continental Top Touring tires
developed worrying bubbles in the sidewalls.


Is that a Conti problem? I had similar issue with Gatorskins.
Two failed prematurely when their sidewalls started to give
up.

During the year of that tour (2003) I think it was a pretty
common problem with Continental tires. I don't know if it still
is.

IIRC, I did later find that I'd been overinflating the tires.


I had mine at the usual 90-95% of rated tire pressure. The CST
tires never blew but their thread was gone after a mere 1000mi and
the sidewalls had lots of fine cracks which was concerning. Next up
is Vittoria Zafiro (got one of them on there right now) and after
that Vee Rubber. I don't think any of them will ever achieve the
2500mi per tire that Gatorskins delivered but not blowing sidewalls
is more important. Plus they are not such a bear to get onto the
rim.


Have fun with the Zafiros -- they're flat prone, and they wear
quickly. The good part is that they're relatively light, and they
have a nice tread pattern like a Pasela, so they get better traction
than a pure slick on wet leaves and grass. The bad part is that the
compound has less wet grip than a Pasela. Gatorskins are better
tires all around, notwithstanding your personal experience with
sidewall damage. The only downside to Gatorskins, IMO, is price and
the fact that they are almost a pure slick -- but by this time of
year, most of the leaves are off the ground, and I can get by with a
pure slick.


I am not holding with breath regarding the Zafiro tires, it's just a
test. My real hope is with the Vee Rubber tires that should arrive soon.
Hoping they have the same rubber as their TrailTaker style MTB tires.
Those last up to 800mi which is really good for the terrain out here.


I had problems getting a Gatorskin onto a CR18 rim -- which is like
your old rims and has a shallow rim well, but never a problem on any
other rim. I would think your old rims would be toast now with all
the miles and hard braking in Gnarlyville. You should spring for some
new rims with deeper rim wells that will accommodate modern tires.


The rims are still hanging on. I mostly let'er rip on downhill stretches
as long as the speed won't go above 45mph. Down in the valley I am on
bike paths most of the time where there is little need for braking. On
Monday I rode this bike path down to the Cosumnes River:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-3gnLIUum0

When the rims are up I'll be looking for a whole new wheel set and that
would also mean bending up the rear from 126mm to 130mm which seems to
be the standard these days.


Get these: https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-vl-chd11-base Wait until Nashbar runs a 40% off deal. Hit the stickers with a hair dryer or heat gun, and they peel right off.

I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're really tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some reason, the axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the wheel can shift, which is a little odd but probably peculiar to my bike. So far, the wheel has been a great value. Standard J-bend spokes and replaceable cartridge bearings, so it is reparable.

-- Jay Beattie.


Ads
  #22  
Old April 12th 18, 09:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,107
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-04-12 12:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:38:13 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-12 09:57, jbeattie wrote:


[...]


I had problems getting a Gatorskin onto a CR18 rim -- which is
like your old rims and has a shallow rim well, but never a
problem on any other rim. I would think your old rims would be
toast now with all the miles and hard braking in Gnarlyville. You
should spring for some new rims with deeper rim wells that will
accommodate modern tires.


The rims are still hanging on. I mostly let'er rip on downhill
stretches as long as the speed won't go above 45mph. Down in the
valley I am on bike paths most of the time where there is little
need for braking. On Monday I rode this bike path down to the
Cosumnes River:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-3gnLIUum0

When the rims are up I'll be looking for a whole new wheel set and
that would also mean bending up the rear from 126mm to 130mm which
seems to be the standard these days.


Get these:
https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-vl-chd11-base
Wait until Nashbar runs a 40% off deal. Hit the stickers with a hair
dryer or heat gun, and they peel right off.


Thanks, bookmarked and entered into wiki & shopping list. I don't care
about stickers, they could stay. Pretty soon they'd be mud-caked anyhow.
The photos aren't sufficiently hi-res, do you know if the rims are
hooked (some tires require that) and the spoke holes have eyelets?


I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike
expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're really
tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some reason, the
axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the wheel can shift,
which is a little odd but probably peculiar to my bike. So far, the
wheel has been a great value. Standard J-bend spokes and replaceable
cartridge bearings, so it is reparable.


14 gauge spokes don't instill much confidence, I have 12 gauge right now
and even those sometimes pop. However, since you said it's all sturdy I
assume it would be ok for me. Bearings last a while for me. What doesn't
last is the freehub where I need to swap in a new one every 10k miles or
so. Assuming it's the usual 10mm Allen deal where it can be replaced. I
had a Formula hub where the freehub wasn't replaceable, which was a real
bummer but luckily still under warranty.

What would be nice is a hub dynamo so I can ride with a smaller vehicle
battery and get that automagically recharged on fast routes, plus maybe
hook up a bigger MP3 player. But not popular in the US and some dreams
just have to remain dreams.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #23  
Old April 12th 18, 10:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,851
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 4/12/2018 3:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Get these: https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-vl-chd11-base Wait until Nashbar runs a 40% off deal. Hit the stickers with a hair dryer or heat gun, and they peel right off.

I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're really tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some reason, the axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the wheel can shift, which is a little odd but probably peculiar to my bike. So far, the wheel has been a great value. Standard J-bend spokes and replaceable cartridge bearings, so it is reparable.


I predict that those won't work for Joerg.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #24  
Old April 13th 18, 12:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,061
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 1:16:55 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-12 12:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 10:38:13 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-12 09:57, jbeattie wrote:


[...]


I had problems getting a Gatorskin onto a CR18 rim -- which is
like your old rims and has a shallow rim well, but never a
problem on any other rim. I would think your old rims would be
toast now with all the miles and hard braking in Gnarlyville. You
should spring for some new rims with deeper rim wells that will
accommodate modern tires.


The rims are still hanging on. I mostly let'er rip on downhill
stretches as long as the speed won't go above 45mph. Down in the
valley I am on bike paths most of the time where there is little
need for braking. On Monday I rode this bike path down to the
Cosumnes River:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-3gnLIUum0

When the rims are up I'll be looking for a whole new wheel set and
that would also mean bending up the rear from 126mm to 130mm which
seems to be the standard these days.


Get these:
https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-vl-chd11-base
Wait until Nashbar runs a 40% off deal. Hit the stickers with a hair
dryer or heat gun, and they peel right off.


Thanks, bookmarked and entered into wiki & shopping list. I don't care
about stickers, they could stay. Pretty soon they'd be mud-caked anyhow.
The photos aren't sufficiently hi-res, do you know if the rims are
hooked (some tires require that) and the spoke holes have eyelets?


I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike
expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're really
tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some reason, the
axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the wheel can shift,
which is a little odd but probably peculiar to my bike. So far, the
wheel has been a great value. Standard J-bend spokes and replaceable
cartridge bearings, so it is reparable.


14 gauge spokes don't instill much confidence, I have 12 gauge right now
and even those sometimes pop. However, since you said it's all sturdy I
assume it would be ok for me. Bearings last a while for me. What doesn't
last is the freehub where I need to swap in a new one every 10k miles or
so. Assuming it's the usual 10mm Allen deal where it can be replaced. I
had a Formula hub where the freehub wasn't replaceable, which was a real
bummer but luckily still under warranty.

What would be nice is a hub dynamo so I can ride with a smaller vehicle
battery and get that automagically recharged on fast routes, plus maybe
hook up a bigger MP3 player. But not popular in the US and some dreams
just have to remain dreams.


Like Frank says, I forgot you were you. I had 36H tandem wheels built with 14/15 spokes and never broke a spoke -- with a total rider weight of 300lbs.

If you're having problems with 14g and even 12g spokes breaking with any regularity, then you need a new wheel builder or a different set of rims -- or different spokes, or all of the above.

And you're also telling us that you paid someone to rebuild your existing wheels. Old EX hubs had 2.4mm spoke holes, IIRC, and you need 2.6mm for 12 gauge. How did you pull that off? If you didn't drill the spoke holes, that must have been a massive PITA pulling 12 gauge spokes. They're probably breaking because the J bends are all scraped up.

-- Jay Beattie.





  #25  
Old April 13th 18, 06:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,626
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 3:47:40 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:36:51 PM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:
Gee, there's stubborn, and then there is pathological obsession. Don't you guys have a mobile phone and the number of a responsive taxi service?

AJ
Flabbergasted


Or in that situation the use of your car is 'allowed', as it is for getting groceries.

Lou


I haven't had a car since I went green in 1990. It makes surprisingly little difference to one's life if you think through the adaptations you have to make.

Andre Jute
Conservationist
  #26  
Old April 13th 18, 07:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,351
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution


On one long tour, our Continental Top Touring tires developed worrying bubbles
in the sidewalls.



Is that a Conti problem? I had similar issue with Gatorskins. Two failed
prematurely when their sidewalls started to give up.

Uhm... Hmm. I haven't read news in a few months, and now that I have and went to catch up on r.b.t, ... ...you are still (or again?) grieving about this.

I told you before; I'll tell you again: Just put a dab of gasket cement on it as soon as the fraying starts. I use Permatex #2 but that's because I use Permatex #2 for everything. I think I used superglue once and it worked fine.

And then you fret about my hose clamp fix :-)


And you fret about a-little-dab'll-do-ya ?
Next time take a pic; until then I'm marking this bug 'fixed'.

Gatorskins are better tires all around, notwithstanding your personal experience with sidewall damage.


He rode his roadbike on the gnarly trail to town and scraped them on rocks and admitted to it, each at least once.

My current Gatorskin: actually I took this tire, which has between 1 and 2 K miles, down from the attic where it had been for 2 years a few months ago. I put a few dabs of black gasket cement on the fraying spots, visible in these pics. Also visible, adjacent to each spot, is a new thread beginning to fray. It's to the left in the first two pics, to the right in the 2nd, in between them in the 4th, not present in the 5th.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngfou1fr3r...30751.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3217iixox1...30912.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zopo2ac7uk...30957.jpg?dl=0

I think I usually apply it a bit more liberally and tried the minimum required this time, and I see that that is not optimal - now I have to do it again. Well, it only takes a minute, but I wouldn't have noticed yet if I hadn't taken the pics. From now on I'll go back to covering the entire sidewall for a couple inches on both sides of the frayed spot, and apply it a bit thicker.

I'll try coating all of both sidewalls of my next gatorskin when new.

-dkl
  #27  
Old April 13th 18, 05:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,107
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-04-12 16:57, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 1:16:55 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-12 12:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]


I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike
expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're
really tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some
reason, the axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the
wheel can shift, which is a little odd but probably peculiar to
my bike. So far, the wheel has been a great value. Standard
J-bend spokes and replaceable cartridge bearings, so it is
reparable.


14 gauge spokes don't instill much confidence, I have 12 gauge
right now and even those sometimes pop. However, since you said
it's all sturdy I assume it would be ok for me. Bearings last a
while for me. What doesn't last is the freehub where I need to swap
in a new one every 10k miles or so. Assuming it's the usual 10mm
Allen deal where it can be replaced. I had a Formula hub where the
freehub wasn't replaceable, which was a real bummer but luckily
still under warranty.

What would be nice is a hub dynamo so I can ride with a smaller
vehicle battery and get that automagically recharged on fast
routes, plus maybe hook up a bigger MP3 player. But not popular in
the US and some dreams just have to remain dreams.


Like Frank says, I forgot you were you. I had 36H tandem wheels
built with 14/15 spokes and never broke a spoke -- with a total rider
weight of 300lbs.

If you're having problems with 14g and even 12g spokes breaking with
any regularity, then you need a new wheel builder or a different set
of rims -- or different spokes, or all of the above.

And you're also telling us that you paid someone to rebuild your
existing wheels. Old EX hubs had 2.4mm spoke holes, IIRC, and you
need 2.6mm for 12 gauge. How did you pull that off? If you didn't
drill the spoke holes, that must have been a massive PITA pulling 12
gauge spokes. They're probably breaking because the J bends are all
scraped up.


Probably they drilled or honed them out. They asked me a lot of
questions when building the bike, the most important one was where I
ride. I ordered the bike with a friend and his was built for normal road
racing, he weighed less than I and he wanted a very light bike while I
wanted sturdiness. After I answered eastern Belgium and forest roads the
guy said to me that I need wider rims and different spokes. This was a
pro shop and I am sure they knew what they were doing. Not surprisingly
the labor charged on my bill was higher than for my friend. Since the
spokes were non-standard back then I orderd a bunch of spares.

The spokes sometimes break at the bend, sometimes where the thread
starts. Which is always fun because then the tire also has to come off,
not just the cassette. Always in the rear and during climbs or uphill
starts.

Probably one of the reasons is ths stupid dishing of rear wheels. Why
can't bikes have sufficient asymmetry in the right stays so no
off-center dishing is required?

Drop-out shifting isn't so great either. I have that on my MTB and it
has wallered out the right rear a bit. The road bike has old-style
slanted slots so it can shift a lot. So far I only have to readjust once
per tire, at the most.

As I said, if you say the Vuelta wheels are sturdy I trust that. So they
are on my Dear Santa list.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #28  
Old April 13th 18, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,107
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-04-12 14:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2018 3:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Get these:
https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-vl-chd11-base
Wait until Nashbar runs a 40% off deal. Hit the stickers with a hair
dryer or heat gun, and they peel right off.

I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike
expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're really
tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some reason, the
axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the wheel can shift,
which is a little odd but probably peculiar to my bike. So far, the
wheel has been a great value. Standard J-bend spokes and replaceable
cartridge bearings, so it is reparable.


I predict that those won't work for Joerg.


I think they would, since Jay used them on a tandem. How does one find
out when Nashbar has their 40% off days without signing up for an email
barrage?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #29  
Old April 13th 18, 06:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,107
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-04-12 23:57, Doug Landau wrote:

On one long tour, our Continental Top Touring tires developed
worrying bubbles in the sidewalls.



Is that a Conti problem? I had similar issue with Gatorskins. Two
failed prematurely when their sidewalls started to give up.

Uhm... Hmm. I haven't read news in a few months, and now that I have
and went to catch up on r.b.t, ... ...you are still (or again?)
grieving about this.

I told you before; I'll tell you again: Just put a dab of gasket
cement on it as soon as the fraying starts. I use Permatex #2 but
that's because I use Permatex #2 for everything. I think I used
superglue once and it worked fine.

And then you fret about my hose clamp fix :-)


And you fret about a-little-dab'll-do-ya ? Next time take a pic;
until then I'm marking this bug 'fixed'.

Gatorskins are better tires all around, notwithstanding your
personal experience with sidewall damage.


He rode his roadbike on the gnarly trail to town and scraped them on
rocks and admitted to it, each at least once.

My current Gatorskin: actually I took this tire, which has between 1
and 2 K miles, down from the attic where it had been for 2 years a
few months ago. I put a few dabs of black gasket cement on the
fraying spots, visible in these pics. Also visible, adjacent to each
spot, is a new thread beginning to fray. It's to the left in the
first two pics, to the right in the 2nd, in between them in the 4th,
not present in the 5th.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0



The defect on the left clearly shows that several of the threads have
been compromised or are frayed. Gasket cement does not fix that, it just
masks it. Such a tire on the front wheel is an accident waiting to happen.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0



See the tear that starts developing at the 5 o'clock position of that
patch job? I would not want that tire on my front wheel.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngfou1fr3r...30751.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3217iixox1...30912.jpg?dl=0



Yikes! No thanks.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/zopo2ac7uk...30957.jpg?dl=0

I think I usually apply it a bit more liberally and tried the minimum
required this time, and I see that that is not optimal - now I have
to do it again. Well, it only takes a minute, but I wouldn't have
noticed yet if I hadn't taken the pics. From now on I'll go back to
covering the entire sidewall for a couple inches on both sides of the
frayed spot, and apply it a bit thicker.

I'll try coating all of both sidewalls of my next gatorskin when
new.


With a $45 tire I do not expect to have to constantly correct mistakes
that the manufacturer made. As I said, my solution has been found: Use
Asian tires with sturdier sidewalls. So far they only last 1000mi versus
the 2500mi I got out of Gatorskin. However, when comparing $11-15
against $45 I won't complain about that. I am quite certain I'll soon
find a tire that lasts a little longer, maybe 1500mi.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #30  
Old April 13th 18, 08:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,061
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 9:55:45 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-04-12 14:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2018 3:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Get these:
https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-vl-chd11-base
Wait until Nashbar runs a 40% off deal. Hit the stickers with a hair
dryer or heat gun, and they peel right off.

I bought some cheap Vuelta disc wheels from my commuter bike
expecting them to die in a month or two -- but no, they're really
tough. The QR is ****, so throw that away, and for some reason, the
axle ends don't bite into my rear dropout, so the wheel can shift,
which is a little odd but probably peculiar to my bike. So far, the
wheel has been a great value. Standard J-bend spokes and replaceable
cartridge bearings, so it is reparable.


I predict that those won't work for Joerg.


I think they would, since Jay used them on a tandem. How does one find
out when Nashbar has their 40% off days without signing up for an email
barrage?


No, no, no. I didn't use them on my tandem. I use them on my commuter bike. The tandem was Sun Chinook rims with 36 hole Shimano XT hubs and 14/15G spokes. Rear may have been 40 spokes. I sold the bike and don't remember.

I get the Nashbar e-mails, so the only way you would know is by checking periodically.

There are many higher-priced options out there, but all of them will involve something other than your current 450g MA2 variant. I think H Plus Son makes some nice rims. You can buy them he https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...p?category=856 Velocity Dyads are robust. I'm sure Andrew could build you a bullet proof road wheel that does not have eBike spokes. Spend some money and get good hubs with a noisy angry-bee freehub.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Desperate Dan Smith agrees to quote OED definition. David Lang UK 8 November 8th 15 03:52 PM
Desperate for Help dudewithasock Unicycling 38 December 1st 05 12:17 AM
Desperate for Help LikeableRodent Unicycling 0 November 27th 05 11:21 PM
a desperate escape from winter non-riding doldrums BB Mountain Biking 2 November 18th 04 01:56 AM
desperate- where can i buy odyssey gloves? ant Marketplace 3 July 1st 04 02:31 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.