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Dry lube?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 26th 18, 01:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,557
Default Dry lube?

On 4/26/2018 4:03 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Frank Krygowski, 2018-04-25 17:43+0200:
On 4/25/2018 4:54 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
One other thing, I have seen suggestions of lubricating only the chain,
and not the sprockets and derailleur. However, I think the derailleur
sprockets still need some lubrication to roll with few friction, do they
not?


No. The friction between the chain's rollers and the sprocket teeth is
negligible. And if you add any lubricant to those surfaces, the
lubricant will soon be filled with abrasive grime. That will accelerate
wear and probably increase the friction.


I was more thinking about the friction between the derailleur sprockets
and their axles, actually.


Indeed those squeak when run dry and the steel ones show
bright red oxide from heat. Yes, do lubricate them, which
for most models means slacking the bolt to get your
lubricant inside.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #12  
Old April 26th 18, 03:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 196
Default Dry lube?

AMuzi wrote:
On 4/26/2018 4:03 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Frank Krygowski, 2018-04-25 17:43+0200:
On 4/25/2018 4:54 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
One other thing, I have seen suggestions of lubricating only the chain,
and not the sprockets and derailleur. However, I think the derailleur
sprockets still need some lubrication to roll with few friction, do they
not?

No. The friction between the chain's rollers and the sprocket teeth is
negligible. And if you add any lubricant to those surfaces, the
lubricant will soon be filled with abrasive grime. That will accelerate
wear and probably increase the friction.


I was more thinking about the friction between the derailleur sprockets
and their axles, actually.


Indeed those squeak when run dry and the steel ones show
bright red oxide from heat. Yes, do lubricate them, which
for most models means slacking the bolt to get your
lubricant inside.


But Tanguy has so little time! When damaged more than the rest of the
deraileur has aged, just get cheap sealed bearing jockey wheels, fit and
"forget"
https://tacx.com/fr/products/galets-de-derailleurs/
  #13  
Old April 26th 18, 04:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tanguy Ortolo
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Posts: 28
Default Dry lube?

Sepp Ruf, 2018-04-26 16:36+0200:
But Tanguy has so little time! When damaged more than the rest of the
deraileur has aged, just get cheap sealed bearing jockey wheels, fit and
"forget"
https://tacx.com/fr/products/galets-de-derailleurs/


I will indeed buy new derailleur wheels when they are used, but I do not
think they are right now, so lubricating them is the way to go.

--
Tanguy
  #14  
Old April 26th 18, 04:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,557
Default Dry lube?

On 4/26/2018 9:36 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/26/2018 4:03 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Frank Krygowski, 2018-04-25 17:43+0200:
On 4/25/2018 4:54 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
One other thing, I have seen suggestions of lubricating only the chain,
and not the sprockets and derailleur. However, I think the derailleur
sprockets still need some lubrication to roll with few friction, do they
not?

No. The friction between the chain's rollers and the sprocket teeth is
negligible. And if you add any lubricant to those surfaces, the
lubricant will soon be filled with abrasive grime. That will accelerate
wear and probably increase the friction.

I was more thinking about the friction between the derailleur sprockets
and their axles, actually.


Indeed those squeak when run dry and the steel ones show
bright red oxide from heat. Yes, do lubricate them, which
for most models means slacking the bolt to get your
lubricant inside.


But Tanguy has so little time! When damaged more than the rest of the
deraileur has aged, just get cheap sealed bearing jockey wheels, fit and
"forget"
https://tacx.com/fr/products/galets-de-derailleurs/


We like those - great product and well priced too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old April 26th 18, 04:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,044
Default Dry lube?

On 4/26/2018 4:46 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
James, 2018-04-26 01:55+0200:
Like Frank said, wax alone allows and the chain will squeak sooner
rather than later. I use much more oil than Frank though, about 50/50
candle wax and EP gear oil. Paraffin oil is also apparently quite good.


Thank you for the advice!

My mixture cost me sweet F.A., and lasts at least 1000km between
applications including some wet rides. Heat the mix in an old cooking
pot until it is liquid and immerse the chain. Use a Connex quick link
for convenience.


So, to sum up, I can get some paraffin wax, put it in a pot with some
oil (paraffin or motor oil), heat it until it melts, stir to make an
homogeneous mix, and immerse my previously cleaned chain in it. All
right?

The mixture will solidify again so I can then remove it from the pot and
store it in some jar.

It's the best of three worlds.
1/ Long chain life.
2/ Low maintenance.
3/ Low cost.


Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife
acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot
for such a mechanic work. :-D


The other common advice with this method: Don't heat the wax-oil mix
indoors over an open flame. Supposedly the vapors are flammable and any
resulting fire can be fierce and difficult to extinguish. So your gas
kitchen stove is out.

Some people say it's OK if you use that stove but have the wax in a
double boiler, to keep the temperature down to 100C.

I've heated a pot of wax outdoors, single pot (not double boiler) over a
camping stove and had no fire. But I'd be very cautious with a gas
kitchen stove.

I think some people have used a microwave oven to melt the wax, but I'm
not sure.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old April 26th 18, 07:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
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Posts: 141
Default Dry lube?

Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Dear cyclists,

After years using wet lubes in all conditions (currently, a specific
chain oil with PTFE from 3in1
http://www.3-en-un.fr/produit/lubrifiant-chaines-et-cables-250ml/),
and being used to seing my chain getting very dirty, I have just learnt
that I may avoid this by using dry lube instead.

Actually, I have heard of one specific product, the Squirt dry lube
http://www.squirtlube.com/our-products/. It is about twice more
expensive than the lubricant I am currently using, but it is supposed to
reduce cleaning work, and if it does make the chain cleaner, it may as
well reduce its wear and extend its life.

So, have any of you tried that lubricant, or any other dry one? Would
you recommend it rather than wet lubes? My most important usage is a
daily commuting through suburb streets and forest paths (in all weather
conditions, therfore quite muddy when it rains, but now that summer is
coming, it is going to be rather dry).


Depends on use case, for the commute bike, dry lube which resists gumming
up, which if your doing 400+ commuting miles per month is handy, for the
MTB/Gravel bike much more likely to use a wet lube as it’s much more likely
to be bog snorkelling in them! And I clean them after every ride or close
enough.

Roger Merriman

  #17  
Old April 27th 18, 01:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default Dry lube?

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:50:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/26/2018 4:46 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
James, 2018-04-26 01:55+0200:
Like Frank said, wax alone allows and the chain will squeak sooner
rather than later. I use much more oil than Frank though, about 50/50
candle wax and EP gear oil. Paraffin oil is also apparently quite good.


Thank you for the advice!

My mixture cost me sweet F.A., and lasts at least 1000km between
applications including some wet rides. Heat the mix in an old cooking
pot until it is liquid and immerse the chain. Use a Connex quick link
for convenience.


So, to sum up, I can get some paraffin wax, put it in a pot with some
oil (paraffin or motor oil), heat it until it melts, stir to make an
homogeneous mix, and immerse my previously cleaned chain in it. All
right?

The mixture will solidify again so I can then remove it from the pot and
store it in some jar.

It's the best of three worlds.
1/ Long chain life.
2/ Low maintenance.
3/ Low cost.


Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife
acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot
for such a mechanic work. :-D


The other common advice with this method: Don't heat the wax-oil mix
indoors over an open flame. Supposedly the vapors are flammable and any
resulting fire can be fierce and difficult to extinguish. So your gas
kitchen stove is out.

Some people say it's OK if you use that stove but have the wax in a
double boiler, to keep the temperature down to 100C.

I've heated a pot of wax outdoors, single pot (not double boiler) over a
camping stove and had no fire. But I'd be very cautious with a gas
kitchen stove.

I think some people have used a microwave oven to melt the wax, but I'm
not sure.


I would be a bit apprehensive about heating any hydrocarbon over an
open flame.... after all their most important property is that they
burn.

I've recently been using an electric cooking pot, from the shape
perhaps a "Wok", that I believe cost me about $10.00 and it even has a
thermostat.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #18  
Old April 27th 18, 02:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,123
Default Dry lube?

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:46:02 -0000 (UTC), Tanguy Ortolo
wrote:

Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife
acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot
for such a mechanic work. :-D


Once used for lubricating oil, a pot can never be food-safe again[1].
Buy a small pot at Goodwill, and store your wax in it. If the lid has
a knob, you can attach it to the pot with rubber bands. (Assuming
that there are two protrusions on the pot.) Since the stuff can't
spill once cool, you could buy a lidless pot and store it in a plastic
bag to keep the dust out.

Don't forget that the wax must be melted over or in hot water, never
directly over fire or a stove coil. As someone who used to cater
house fires, I can tell you that when oil or wax gets too hot, Really
Nasty things happen. (NEVER throw a skillet of blazing bacon into a
sink filled with water.)

==========

[1] Well, it can, but it has to be an expensive pot to be worth the
trouble. We used tin cans as disposable pans for melting paraffin
when I was a child, and paraffin *is* food safe. But very, very hard
to get out of a pot. (I've forgotten what children were doing with
molten paraffin, but Mom made very sure I didn't forget how to melt
it.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/




  #19  
Old April 27th 18, 07:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,740
Default Dry lube?

On 26/04/18 18:46, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
James, 2018-04-26 01:55+0200:
Like Frank said, wax alone allows and the chain will squeak sooner
rather than later. I use much more oil than Frank though, about 50/50
candle wax and EP gear oil. Paraffin oil is also apparently quite good.


Thank you for the advice!

My mixture cost me sweet F.A., and lasts at least 1000km between
applications including some wet rides. Heat the mix in an old cooking
pot until it is liquid and immerse the chain. Use a Connex quick link
for convenience.


So, to sum up, I can get some paraffin wax, put it in a pot with some
oil (paraffin or motor oil), heat it until it melts, stir to make an
homogeneous mix, and immerse my previously cleaned chain in it. All
right?


I used 80/90 EP gear oil. I don't know the effect of motor oil, but
otherwise yes. My wife had no use for a large candle. The wax cost me
nothing, and is scented ;-)

The mixture will solidify again so I can then remove it from the pot and
store it in some jar.


I just leave mine in the pot ready for next time. Put a lid on it so it
doesn't fill with dust and so on.

It's the best of three worlds.
1/ Long chain life.
2/ Low maintenance.
3/ Low cost.


Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife
acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot
for such a mechanic work. :-D


A second hand store / opportunity shop would be a place to find a cheap
cooking pot.

People say heating wax & oil over a flame is dangerous, but I've not had
any bad experiences. Just be careful and be aware the wax solution will
likely burn you while it is hot. Handle the chain with pliers or put a
piece of wire through a link so you can dip it in, leave it for a couple
of minutes, and lift it out. Wipe off any excess that doesn't drip off.

--
JS

  #20  
Old April 27th 18, 07:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,740
Default Dry lube?

On 27/04/18 01:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:


The other common advice with this method: Don't heat the wax-oil mix
indoors over an open flame. Supposedly the vapors are flammable and any
resulting fire can be fierce and difficult to extinguish. So your gas
kitchen stove is out.


I've used an indoor gas stove and now an outdoor gas BBQ. I'm waiting
for a fire.

Not to say it can't happen, but it might be more likely if the mix is
spilled.

Care is necessary.

--
JS
 




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