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Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 8th 09, 03:22 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
natosha
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


Hello,

I am having a couple of really frustrating problems that I would like
some advice on.

I am trying to learn to unicycle on a Nimbus 24" with 125mm cranks. I
have had 7 practice sessions now, each of which ranges from about 45 to
90 minutes long, with most of them being about 1 hour long. I can mount
OK as long as I have someone or something on one side of me to hold
onto. Once mounted, if I am touching my husband's hand lightly -- only
our fingertips touching (so lightly that he couldn't actually provide
any physical support if he wanted to) -- I can ride as far as I want to,
including wobbling around turns, until my legs get tired. If I push off
on my own (without him walking next to me), or let go of his hand
completely, I will either fall immediately, or usually only get in 2-5
revolutions before I fall. Has anyone experienced a similar "mental
block" when learning? It's really frustrating because 1) it is
beginning to feel like my progress is very, very slow, and 2) I know
that I *can* do it, I just somehow panic when I don't have
anyone/anything beside me.

Regarding the sore knees: After doing some searching, I have come to
the conclusion that this is a fairly common problem, but I have tried
all of the suggestions that I found and I am still having no luck.
Around my second practice I noticed that my knees were sore. This has
really only continued to get worse. Now when I practice unicycling,
they are so sore that I actually have trouble walking up and down stairs
the next day! The residual soreness lasts for at least 2-3 days
afterwards! This is also slowing down my progress because I can only
practice 2-3 times a week. I don't have any pre-existing knee problems
and I have run on a regular basis (an average of about 10 miles a week)
for some time now without having any knee pain. I know a common
suggestion is to raise the seat, but my seat is already as high as I can
get it and still have my legs slightly bent when the pedals are all the
way down. I'm not sure what else to try? Would longer cranks help? I
try putting as much of my weight on the seat as I can, but I am still
learning so I don't have very good control and I end up relying on my
legs a lot for helping me correct and stay balanced.

I would appreciate any advice whatsoever -- I'm really frustrated!

Cheers


--
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  #2  
Old January 8th 09, 04:07 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
saskatchewanian
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


The only advice I have for people with mental blocks is... drink two
beer. Just enough to help loosen those mental blocks without severely
affecting your coordination or balance, then try letting go of your
husbands hand.

As for the knees that sounds very familiar. When I was training for RTL
(unicycle race) I my knees started to get really sore and it got to the
point that I not only could not ride but run or even walk without severe
pain. 6 weeks and as many doctors latter I finally met a doc that took
me seriously and knew what he was talking about.

He told me I had a muscle imbalance in my quads. He said that it was a
common imbalance for both cyclists and runners. I was unicycling
100-150km per week and running 10-20.

To correct it he told me to sit in a chair and just raise my foot
flexing the knee ten times in a row three times a day. Two days latter I
was walking without pain for the first time in over a month and four
days latter I was running and riding pain free.

Your knee problems may not be the same as mine but that very simple
exercise did wonders for me.


Welcome to the forums and keep us updated on your progress!

ERIC


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  #3  
Old January 8th 09, 06:04 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
munimutant
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


the mental block, GET MAD! Tell yourself you WANT to do this. You
are GOING to do this. Look at a spot in the road 20 feet ahead and RIDE
to it with determination. It sounds like you are on the cusp of a
breakthrough and it's time to take charge and show that pesky mental
block who's boss. At least this worked for me. Everyone's different, but
might be worth a shot!

Saskatchewan's comments knee pain sound right on. Are you
stretching your quads too? I think that would help. Also you are
probably very tense while riding and as you get better and relax, the
pain will subside. Good luck and have fun!


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  #4  
Old January 9th 09, 03:57 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
natosha
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


Greetings,

Thanks for all of the great replies. I practiced this evening for only
30 minutes and I think it was better for my knees. This time I didn't
worry about trying to ride unassisted -- instead I practiced sitting all
the way down on the seat (I did raise the seat up slightly) and tried to
get the feel of pedaling along smoothly, using my husband for support as
little as possible. Although I feel like I "regressed" a little with
regards to my balance (I was actually having to rely on my husband's
hand for balance some of the time, and I *thought* I was past that
point), it didn't cause me pain in my knees and I was able to go in a
straighter line (rather than zig-zag all over the place). The only
times I came off were when I got down on my own or when I hit a big
enough bump/crack in the concrete that I lost my balance and came off
forwards. I was even able to pedal fairly smoothly around corners!

I still have trouble getting started smoothly, though. When I start
going, my pedaling is kind of a
"start-stop-start-stop-start-stop-pedal-pedal-pedal..." kind of motion.
Does anyone have any advice for this? I found that leaning forward
slightly when I start going seems to help some.


saskatchewanian;1166596 wrote:
He told me I had a muscle imbalance in my quads. He said that it was a
common imbalance for both cyclists and runners. I was unicycling
100-150km per week and running 10-20.

To correct it he told me to sit in a chair and just raise my foot
flexing the knee ten times in a row three times a day.




I think I will try this. I am a software engineer so I sit at a desk
all day. I can do these exercises while I'm at work.


munimutant;1166666 wrote:
the mental block, GET MAD! Tell yourself you WANT to do this. You
are GOING to do this. Look at a spot in the road 20 feet ahead and RIDE
to it with determination.




Well, the few times I have tried this, it resulted in a (I'm sure) very
amusing fiasco that ended up with me flying forward off the unicycle and
sliding on the concrete. I think, however, that once I get the hang of
pedaling more smoothly, it will help.


McNerdius;1166711 wrote:
As for the knee pain... an informative page is:
http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spknees.html




I will definitely check this out. Thanks.


Naomi;1166762 wrote:
Been said many times before but: In my experience many novices THINK
they have much of their weight on the seat. In reality they still have
a lot of weight on the pedals, meaning the right leg is constantly
fighting against the left. The workload on the legs can thus be many
times higher than that for an experienced rider.
You can tell the difference the first time you get the weight right.
It feels very different. Somehow "floaty". Effortless on smooth level
ground.




I did notice that things are much smoother when I just sit all the way
down on the seat. I guess I thought I had more of my weight on the seat
than I actually did.


wobbling bear;1166793 wrote:
One I noticed is too many "transversal" efforts to keep balance. So work
on "straight" pedaling and have someone spot and correct the alignment
of legs, knee, pedals .... try to pedal more quickly first (" ok the
death dive now!") and later slow down.




I agree that this is probably the cause of my knee pain. I think my
legs are fighting each other and it puts a lot of stress on my knees. I
did notice tonight that I wasn't having knee pain.


scott ttocs;1166943 wrote:
Do not hold hands, but rather put your hand or finger on your Husband's
wrist so that you can let go at any time.




This is pretty much what we've been doing; he will hold his hand out
flat and I will touch his hand with my fingers.


scott ttocs;1166943 wrote:
We used the same unicycle, and in my experience a comfortable riding
pace is a FAST walk, not a slow walk. You may be going too
slow--Unicycling is easier if you get up a little speed. A comfortable
pace for a 24" Nimbus with 125 mm cranks is a slow jog.




I did notice this evening that my husband was having to walk much more
quickly than usual, so perhaps I am on the right track here.
Unfortunately, I am kind of afraid of the speed. I know that one of my
problems when I try to ride unassisted is that I get afraid of falling
as soon as I pick up some speed and I end up hopping down off the
unicycle for no apparent reason before I even have a chance to think
about it.


scott ttocs;1166943 wrote:
Regarding your poor knees: have you ridden a bike recently?




Yes, and I don't have any pain from riding my bike.


scott ttocs;1166943 wrote:
Here are some (standard) suggestions: Relax and put your weight on the
seat. Try standing on the pedals and then settling into the seat and
lifting up your feet until they are barely touching the pedals to get a
sense of the difference. You will need to put force on the pedals, but
it is much less than you think.




I will continue working on this. I thought I was doing a good job of
not putting my weight on the pedals, but my practice tonight was proof
that I was wrong.


GearQueen;1166948 wrote:
I think women are a bit more cautious than men, and our brains want to
understand what is going to happen. We are more cautious about getting
hurt.




This is definitely the case for me.


GearQueen;1166948 wrote:
What I see, when I'm walking along side her, is that she is not doing a
very smooth pedal stroke, almost a stop and start.




This is the case for me, as well. I will continue working to correct
this -- I think this is the key to being able to ride on my own. Taking
my weight off the pedals help a lot.


olduniman;1166965 wrote:
Your practice sessions of one hour or more sound rather long for a
beginner. There is a lot of tension associated with unicycling at the
start so you just may be pushing too hard.




This is probably part of my problem. I'm going to try limiting my
practice sessions to about 1/2 hour and see if it helps.


olduniman;1166965 wrote:
I had a lot of trouble with knee pain early on, but raising the seat to
the proper height made a big difference. If you pedal standing up as
much as possible, (that is, no weight on the seat) and there is more
than an inch or two of "crotch clearance" your seat is probably too low.
Do you need a longer seat post?




No, I definitely don't need a longer seat post (I have a few inches
that I could still move it up). I did move my seat post up about 3/4 of
an inch tonight and, although it made mounting harder, I think it did
help me get more of my weight on the seat.


maestro8;1167037 wrote:
It still may be the case that your saddle isn't high enough... you might
need a longer seatpost.




I do think the saddle wasn't quite high enough (raising it about 3/4"
seemed to help). Luckily I still have several inches I could go up
without "outgrowing" my seat post.


maestro8;1167037 wrote:
Longer cranks would cause your knees to bend even more. Shorter cranks
would be the remedy here.




I think the pain is from my legs fighting each other, though -- not
from the bending itself. My understanding is that longer cranks would
be easier on the knees but more work on the leg muscles, and shorter
cranks would be easier on the leg muscles but would put more strain on
the knees. Is this not true?

Thanks again for all of the great responses!


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  #5  
Old January 9th 09, 08:38 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Unicorn
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


Your practice sessions are very long. I suggest cutting the sessins down
to 15 to twenty minutes. However try to do a session every day and even
two on the weekends. As the session lengthens concentration wanes
muscles tire and you leave the session feeling bad. When I work on
leaning riding I also finish my practice session after I have a good
run. That way I walk away feeling confident rather than frustrated.

125mm cranks are harder to learn on. with 150 or 165 you should be able
to learn faster.

Sounds like you are putting to much weight on the pedals and not enough
on the seat.

When riding try looking at at a point on the horizon or the fence on
the oposite side of the court or a poster on the fall wall of the gym.
do not look at the floor 2 feet in front of your tire or that is were
you will go.

Keep in mind that unicycling is a series of accelerations and
deccelerations. That is how yo keep the tire under you. As you become
more experiences you will make smaller and smaller accelerations and
deccelerations using your by then stronger and much more coordinated
muscles much less. I taught a good friend who completed both the NY and
Boston marathons to ride. In the beginning he used to get nausous from
the exertion after just 15 minutes of riding! Now he does 3 hour MUni
rides with me.

I do like Saskatch's beer suggestion. I like doing what i call the two
beer test - I learn a new skill and then if I can still do it
consistently after two beers I feel that I have mastered it! Good luck
you have began the exciting and rewarding voyage of unicycling!
Unicorn


--
Unicorn

Keep your eyes on the stars and your feet on the pedals, and you will
accomplish great feats!

'The Unicycling Commune' (http://tinyurl.com/3xkd8d)
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  #6  
Old January 10th 09, 01:42 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Klaas Bil
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


Unicorn;1167572 wrote:
I do like Saskatch's beer suggestion. I like doing what i call the two
beer test - I learn a new skill and then if I can still do it
consistently after two beers I feel that I have mastered it!


Hey, Sask meant that two beers would make it easier. You make it sound
as if the two beers make it harder.


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  #7  
Old January 16th 09, 04:12 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
UekiTylor
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


saskatchewanian;1166596 wrote:

He told me I had a muscle imbalance in my quads. He said that it was a
common imbalance for both cyclists and runners. I was unicycling
100-150km per week and running 10-20.

To correct it he told me to sit in a chair and just raise my foot
flexing the knee ten times in a row three times a day. Two days latter I
was walking without pain for the first time in over a month and four
days latter I was running and riding pain free.
ERIC




Thank you for the advice! I've been having sore knees and just
stretching has not been helping. (Disclaimer: I've been afraid to
stretch too much as I have a hernia and the knee stretches I do for
running feel weird right now.)

I have a coworker who has been swearing this exact same thing fixed his
knee problems (also from running) and I never took him seriously! He
says whenever his knees start to hurt, he just practices making a muscle
around his knee whenever he thinks of it waiting in line, sitting at his
desk, watching TV, and the pain goes away.


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  #8  
Old January 8th 09, 08:06 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
McNerdius[_2_]
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


I second saskatchewanian's words on the beers. Helps great to get past
those mental blocks. As for the knee pain... an informative page is:
http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spknees.html

I've added various stretches to my routine (and now saskatchewanian's
tip) and have been increasing duration and intensity of practice (not
recommended... but...) and the pain/discomfort has been decreasing a
bit each day. I'm sure if i were to take it easy on the uni and just
stretch a wee bit things would be in tip top shape ...

Importantly though, stretch ! And keep the quads in balance !

And on to my last little rant... I'm still learning BUT... I'm going
to leave out all but the most important details here... DO NOT GIVE UP.
A LOT of people certainly have learned on 24" unis. A LOT of 24" unis
certainly have 125mm cranks. So don't let what i'm about to say
discourage further attempts. My first uni was a 24 with 150mm cranks.
2 years i tried on this thing... i had VERY similar experiences to what
you are describing. Then i got a 20." It's been less than a month now
and i'm a few hours away from skill level one. i am almost certainly
less fit than you. Ultimately, smaller cranks will make things a tad
easier for you, albeit a tad harder on your knees. a smaller wheel with
125s or proportionately smaller cranks will make a world of difference
in learning speed. I know it has for me. Sorry to ramble, but 24 vs 20
is an issue i will always have a bit of passion for.


--
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  #9  
Old January 8th 09, 10:59 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Naomi
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


Been said many times before but: In my experience many novices THINK
they have much of their weight on the seat. In reality they still have
a lot of weight on the pedals, meaning the right leg is constantly
fighting against the left. The workload on the legs can thus be many
times higher than that for an experienced rider.
You can tell the difference the first time you get the weight right.
It feels very different. Somehow "floaty". Effortless on smooth level
ground.

Nao


--
Naomi

The dress in which I unicycled was not THAT short, but in retrospect, I
think that maybe the blue one would have been more appropriate to the
terrain.
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  #10  
Old January 8th 09, 12:20 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
wobbling bear
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Default Frustrations Learning to Ride: Mental Block and *Really* Sore Knees?


mental block: I know that! cannot get rid of it after 6 years
unicycling. But I now practice rough terrain unicycling with pretty
difficult sections. So I live with it.

knee pain: different reasons possible. One I noticed is too many
"transversal" efforts to keep balance. So work on "straight" pedaling
and have someone spot and correct the alignment of legs, knee, pedals
.... try to pedal more quickly first (" ok the death dive now!") and
later slow down.


--
wobbling bear

One Wheel : bear necessity
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