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Chain wear and cassette question



 
 
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  #71  
Old November 18th 18, 07:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 12:51:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Joerg, I can't tell what you mean by stretch. Chains do not normally stretch at all. Their rollers wear so that the distance between rollers increases and causes cassette wear. With the price of cassettes these days it's far cheaper to replace a chain that is showing wear than to let it go and have to replace a cassette as well.
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  #72  
Old November 18th 18, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to
stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the
rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is
too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from
my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old
Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and
also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust
old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs
anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted
and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link
below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to
get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano
STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327


My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4 cogs
riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you can
hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest three, or
so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and if
you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer relevant as
the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.


I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed 12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that goes with it.
  #73  
Old November 19th 18, 12:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 07:44:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-17 15:07, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 07:54:44 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-17 07:05, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/17/2018 12:29 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 16:08:05 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-14 15:46, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 5:42 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 08:02:03 -0800, Joerg wrote:


Joerg in particular might enjoy their B-Rad system (except that it
won't fit his favorite growler).
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...b-rad-products


I can't because my MTB doesn't even have the space for a single water
bottle of decent size. Even the bike dealer where I bought is said
"WHAT?? How could they now have that?". So I mounted one holder on
the
handlebar (I have a bike with a cup holder now!) plus modded the rear
section for some heavy duty longhaul schlepping.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

Naah, under the down tube, maybe even on top of the down tube close to
bottom bracket. And you could fit a real keg on top of the top tubes.


Under the downtube it gets dirty with horse poop, cow poop, bear poop
and dirty water, plus rock hits. Above there isn't enough space for a
decent size bottle, 28oz and such.


I used to carry two bottles on a carrier that mounted to the seat
rails and held the bottles behind the seat. There are also carriers
that mount on the handle bars and as a last resort I've carried
bottles in the pockets of my cycling jersey.

Real men prefer handlebar cages:

https://roma.corriere.it/methode_ima...e-Web-Roma.JPG


That is similar to what I have on my MTB, except more upright like a cup
holder in a car. _Very_ practical. Not having to reach down allows me to
take a quick sip even in situations where you cannot control the
handlebar single-handedly for long.

I'd also have that on my road bike and might some day. However, that's
where the MP3 player already resides and the bar is so narrow.



But you can buy wider bars. see
https://tinyurl.com/y7npyvt7
and heat treated after bending means that they are super strong too
:-)



Then I'd go all out:

https://www.bicycledesigner.com/bike...er-chrome.html

Plus a nice loud Harley sound on the MP3 player.


The traditional noisemaker is a playing card held to the front fork
leg with a clothespin that the spokes hit. Rrrrrrrr :-)
cheers,

John B.



  #74  
Old November 19th 18, 01:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 159
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 07:44:42 -0800, Joerg wrote:

On 2018-11-17 15:07, John B. slocomb wrote:


But you can buy wider bars. see https://tinyurl.com/y7npyvt7 and heat
treated after bending means that they are super strong too :-)



Then I'd go all out:

https://www.bicycledesigner.com/bike...er-chrome.html

Plus a nice loud Harley sound on the MP3 player.


Harleya are passe'(sp?)
Definitely a nice Locomotive sound.
http://www.mylocosound.com/index.html
Coupled with some inframe speakers and a definitely not legal e-bike
addition.

GSW; On one bicycle camping trip, we stopped beside a beautiful lake for
the night, to be later joined by the Gypsy Joker motor bike club. It was
"what a hey" when a car trailer turned up with "broken down' harleys on
board. The really funny bit was that some had been on it from the start
because they didn't want their bikes to miss out on the trip.

  #75  
Old November 19th 18, 05:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 2018-11-18 16:37, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 07:44:42 -0800, Joerg wrote:

On 2018-11-17 15:07, John B. slocomb wrote:


But you can buy wider bars. see https://tinyurl.com/y7npyvt7 and heat
treated after bending means that they are super strong too :-)



Then I'd go all out:

https://www.bicycledesigner.com/bike...er-chrome.html

Plus a nice loud Harley sound on the MP3 player.


Harleya are passe'(sp?)
Definitely a nice Locomotive sound.
http://www.mylocosound.com/index.html
Coupled with some inframe speakers and a definitely not legal e-bike
addition.


No kidding, I have steam locomotive sounds on that player as well. On
long uphill stretches it's soothing to hear the constant chouff-chouff.
One day on my MTB (also with MP3 player) the singletrack veered close to
old train tracks and two girls were hiking there. One in the rail bad,
the other in the singletrack. They were in an intense discussion and
didn't hear me coming. Couldn't resist, I rolled up as quietly as I
could, turned the MP3 loose and the horn of a big Union Pacific Diesel
sounded. GAAAAH! The girl in the tracks jumped to the side. Then we all
laughed.


GSW; On one bicycle camping trip, we stopped beside a beautiful lake for
the night, to be later joined by the Gypsy Joker motor bike club. It was
"what a hey" when a car trailer turned up with "broken down' harleys on
board. The really funny bit was that some had been on it from the start
because they didn't want their bikes to miss out on the trip.


Like the Soviet Army in the old days when they towed trucks into
maneuver areas because they were in disrepair but expected to be there.
It was hilarious.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #76  
Old November 20th 18, 04:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.


I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #77  
Old November 20th 18, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,496
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:24:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.


I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.


Told you it just looked like single screw and some locating pins -- if any pins.

My tale of woe (stupidity): the Vuelta Corsa SLX disc rear that I got from Nashbar dirt-cheap suffered a broken spoke -- rear drive side. The wheel is amazingly robust for an el-cheapo prefab wheel, and the break is totally my fault. I threw on an old rear derailleur last year because the previous old rear derailleur finally wore out. The bike has been the sump for all my old, used parts. Anyway, I was in a hurry, threw it on, took off and overshifted into the spokes. Deja vu 1978. I scarred up the outbound spokes badly and one finally broke. Now I have to find a suitable replacement(s), which will be difficult from my vast used spoke collection because they are all too long. I'll probably have to buy a few from Universal.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #78  
Old November 20th 18, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,855
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On 11/20/2018 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:24:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.

I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.


Told you it just looked like single screw and some locating pins -- if any pins.

My tale of woe (stupidity): the Vuelta Corsa SLX disc rear that I got from Nashbar dirt-cheap suffered a broken spoke -- rear drive side. The wheel is amazingly robust for an el-cheapo prefab wheel, and the break is totally my fault. I threw on an old rear derailleur last year because the previous old rear derailleur finally wore out. The bike has been the sump for all my old, used parts. Anyway, I was in a hurry, threw it on, took off and overshifted into the spokes. Deja vu 1978. I scarred up the outbound spokes badly and one finally broke. Now I have to find a suitable replacement(s), which will be difficult from my vast used spoke collection because they are all too long. I'll probably have to buy a few from Universal.


http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html

I had two of those in my winter fixie wheel* for 5~6 years
until the volume of dents reached a point where a new wheel
made sense.

*other damage prevented sprocket removal


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #79  
Old November 21st 18, 12:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,826
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 11:39:15 PM UTC, Ralph Barone wrote:
I've always wanted a second smaller bar mounted in
front of my regular bar for lights, GPS and whatever other **** I needed
right in front of me. Sheldon's quill into a threadless stem idea was
nifty, but being able to bolt a second stem at the end of the first would
be even better.


My steering setup is quill into threadless stem. (Newbies should take care to understand how each of the two systems work before they attempt this trick, or have the LBS fit the components. A steering failure from incompetent assembly could result in a nasty face plant or worse.) First you have to clamp down the steerer tube, which you would normally do with the stem on the more normal setup. I use a seat tube clamp. Then you fit the quill inside the steerer tube, stack spacers and fit the stem at its new height. My purpose was simply to raise the handlebars substantially.

However you can also use the quill to get new height on the steering tube to fit a tool bar above the handlebar stem, by using the handlebar stem as clamp and attaching the toolbar above on the height of the quill, with spacers underneath as required.

Andre Jute
Sets and combinations
  #80  
Old November 21st 18, 01:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,496
Default Chain wear and cassette question

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/20/2018 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 7:24:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-18 10:17, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed
0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one
has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long.
However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040"
or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished
because of those rollers.

Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T
from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire
the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to
become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I
can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as
KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked
cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old
spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be
hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get
them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a
Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub
had croaked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327



My rather limited experience has been that the
cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4
cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you
can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest
three, or so, cogs.

Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and
if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer
relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette.

cheers,

John B.

I was repairing a friend's bike yesterday and he uses a 10 speed
12-34 and the lower 8 speeds of the Deore cassette were all rivetted
together. I didn't like the cassette or the long arm derailleur that
goes with it.


Yesterday I received the big Sunrace cassette, including new derailer
and derailer extender. The cassette has only one screw and it almost
fell into pieces when I dragged it out of its box. Not a problem, just
strange. It's huge, almost the diameter of a dessert plate.

This week's ride got smoked out (literally) and then it's suposed to
begin to rain on Wednesday. So maybe some time to do the cassette hack
unless something on the honey-do lits wins. Like the pool sweep that
just quit.


Told you it just looked like single screw and some locating pins -- if any pins.

My tale of woe (stupidity): the Vuelta Corsa SLX disc rear that I got from Nashbar dirt-cheap suffered a broken spoke -- rear drive side. The wheel is amazingly robust for an el-cheapo prefab wheel, and the break is totally my fault. I threw on an old rear derailleur last year because the previous old rear derailleur finally wore out. The bike has been the sump for all my old, used parts. Anyway, I was in a hurry, threw it on, took off and overshifted into the spokes. Deja vu 1978. I scarred up the outbound spokes badly and one finally broke. Now I have to find a suitable replacement(s), which will be difficult from my vast used spoke collection because they are all too long. I'll probably have to buy a few from Universal.


http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html

I had two of those in my winter fixie wheel* for 5~6 years
until the volume of dents reached a point where a new wheel
made sense.

*other damage prevented sprocket removal


I'm going to see if I can get a hose clamp to work. Or maybe I'll just use a spoke. As it turns out, it's a 292mm (according to the Vuelta guys, who returned my e-mail promptly), and I think I have some of those hanging around -- or close enough.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




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