A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Chain Lube?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old November 13th 18, 06:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 295
Default Chain Lube?

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 02:31:19 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 16:25:35 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-12 16:17, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. slocomb wrote:

I wonder whether this product might not be a useful chain lube
https://tinyurl.com/yc8dwzfp

cheers,

John B.

It looks pricey, but molybdenum disulphide is a great, albeit messy dry
lubricant.


Yes, that looks like it could become the most expensive chain lube ever.
Do they have real gold flakes in there? I can't imagine a can lasting
more than 4-5 lubes. You could buy a new chain instead where the factory
lube lasts like 2-3 normal lube intervals.


Good Lord! A cyclist worrying about prices? Impossible!

After all a TREK Madone SLR 9 Disc eTap starts at a mere
$12,299,99.... But of course, that's a road bike and everyone knows
that those who actually ride a bicycle on a public road are... well, a
bit on the stupid side. Imagine, ignoring all those dangerous
automobiles...

In contrast, the mountain bikers, a sport that originated with a bunch
of guys who rode old second, third, fourth hand, bikes that even the
riders referred to as "Klunkers", can now rejoice in a brand new TREK
Top Fuel 9.9 SL, for a paltry $9,299.99.

And you want to ignore an almost magical product that markets for a
mere $44.77 (plus shipping) ?
cheers,

John B.


Just buy your moly powder in bulk and mix it in with the carrier of your
choice (oil, wax, a fast evaporating solvent, or a mixture of the above)

https://www.lowerfriction.com/produc...?categoryID=26


It doesn't seem to be quite as simple as the Dow stuff apparently goes
on as a liquid and then hardens. According to the TDS it requires a
two hour curing time which seems to imply something other then just
Molybdenum Disulfide and a carrier. The Dow product contains Polybutyl
Titanate which, from what I read, aids in forming an adhesive coating
probably helps in causing the Moly to stick to the object being
coated.

cheers,

John B.



Ads
  #12  
Old November 13th 18, 08:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 295
Default Chain Lube?

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 21:28:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 06:52:19 +0700, John B. slocomb
wrote:

I wonder whether this product might not be a useful chain lube
https://tinyurl.com/yc8dwzfp


By now, you should have gotten my clue that it helps to know the
ingredients and what they do.
https://webaps.ellsworth.com/edl/Actions/GetLibraryFile.aspx?document=23592&language=en

Chemical name CAS-No. Concentration (% w/w)
Butane 106-97-8 = 49 - = 67

n-Butyl acetate 123-86-4 = 8 - = 12

Propane 74-98-6 = 8 - = 12

Naphtha (petroleum), hydrodesulfurized heavy
64742-82-1 = 7 - = 11

Molybdenum sulfide 1317-33-5 = 5 - = 7

Polybutyl titanate 9022-96-2 = 3 - = 4

Graphite 7782-42-5 = 1.4 - = 1.8

Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 = 0.12 - = 0.16

The butane and propane are propellants and don't do anything for
lubrication. n-Butyl acetate is another name for acetic acid. My
guess(tm) is that it's used to mask the yucky smell.

Most of the contents is naphtha, which is an oily lubricant found
various forms in most lubricants. Others in the family are mineral
oil, stoddards solvent, kerosene, camp stove oil, petroleum
distillate, etc. These are not identical, but quite similar.

Molybdenum (di)sulfide is a friction reducer and the main lubricating
ingredient in the mix.
https://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/molybdenum_disulfide_characteristics.htm

Poly butyl titanate (PBT), also known as titanium tetrabutanolate,
seems to be a lubricant that will coat the metal parts with a thin
(possibly nanoparticle) but hard layer of titanium dioxide. It's a
common friction reducing additive to lubricants.
https://res.mdpi.com/lubricants/lubricants-04-00012/article_deploy/lubricants-04-00012.pdf?filename=&attachment=1

Graphite is yet another friction reducer.

The tiny amount of ethylbenzene seems to be to prevent the naphtha
from turning to tar.

So, there's you have my best guess as to how this stuff works. The
problem is that there's nothing listed that would help the lubricant
enter the pin and sleeve area of the chain through capillary action.
If the chain were perfectly clean, I could possibly see it entering
the pin and sleeve, but any old oil, dirt, or wax, will block entry to
the only place where the various friction reducers can work. It might
work if you immersed the chain in a hot solution of this lube, but in
a spray can, that's not going to happen. Spraying the oil on the
surface of the chain isn't going to do anything for lubrication
besides attract dirt.


If one is lubricating a clean chain - I say that as I've seen chains
so dirty that you'd have needed a shovel to clean them - I'm fairly
sure that the mix of naphtha and the actual lubricants will enter the
pin and roller area. At least, another lubricant that I used for a
number of years - a mix of petroleum lubricants and a light carrier
which evaporated leaving a greasy residue - did. Unless, that is, one
could run an unlubricated chain for several years. :-)

cheers,

John B.



  #13  
Old November 13th 18, 08:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 295
Default Chain Lube?

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 21:32:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 21:28:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

The tiny amount of ethylbenzene seems to be to prevent the naphtha
from turning to tar.


Ok, that's wrong. The ethylbenzene is probably a contaminant left
over from the distillation of the naphtha.


Possibly. "Naphtha" is not a really specific term (other then it is a
hydrocarbon :-) but the specs read heavy naphtha which usually has a
boiling point of 90 - 200 degrees (C) and ethylbenzine has a boiling
point of 130 degrees (C).

cheers,

John B.



  #14  
Old November 13th 18, 03:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,835
Default Chain Lube?

On 11/12/2018 5:52 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:

I wonder whether this product might not be a useful chain lube
https://tinyurl.com/yc8dwzfp



As Jobst often noted, any liquid or semi-liquid, even water,
is a lubricant. Suitability and performance of course varies.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old November 13th 18, 05:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,919
Default Chain Lube?

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 14:11:38 +0700, John B. slocomb
wrote:

If one is lubricating a clean chain


"Clean Chain" is an oxymoron.

- I say that as I've seen chains
so dirty that you'd have needed a shovel to clean them - I'm fairly
sure that the mix of naphtha and the actual lubricants will enter the
pin and roller area.


Not in the quantities usually applied to a chain. That's why
industrial chains, such as on conveyor belts have brush oilers:
https://www.zoro.com/lubesite-chain-oiler-flat-brush-8-oz-fb-8/i/G1530903/
I probably would try one on my bicycle except that it's difficult to
contrive a mounting arrangement that follows the chain line as I shift
through the gears. I do have a paper design for a derailleur with a
built in lubricator, but it's not practical. It sticks out even
further than the derailleur and will probably be damaged if it hits
something.

Maybe something like this:
https://felixwong.com/2014/09/z-chain-oiler-review/

Also, I wanted to try more than one brush oiler so that I can wash,
rinse, dry, and lube as I ride using some kind of shifting mechanism
to switch from solvents to the appropriate oil for riding conditions.

At least, another lubricant that I used for a
number of years - a mix of petroleum lubricants and a light carrier
which evaporated leaving a greasy residue - did. Unless, that is, one
could run an unlubricated chain for several years. :-)


If the chain is sloppy and loose, oil smeared on the chain will
eventually arrive to the pin and sleeve. However, I doubt if grease
will do that. If the solvent carrier evaporates before the oil has
time to work its way into the mechanism, it will be too thick to move
and remain on the surface.

What I would like to try is a chain where the pin or sleeve have a
spiral groove cut along its length to "pump" oil through the bearing.
Just keep adding oil to lubricate. When it's time to clean the chain,
just remove the chain, reverse the direction of rotation, and the
accumulated grease and crud will be pushed out the direction it
arrived.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #16  
Old November 13th 18, 07:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,342
Default Chain Lube?

On 11/12/2018 4:17 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. slocomb wrote:

I wonder whether this product might not be a useful chain lube
https://tinyurl.com/yc8dwzfp

cheers,

John B.


It looks pricey, but molybdenum disulphide is a great, albeit messy dry
lubricant.


About 45 years ago I tried molybdenum disulfide on my bicycle chain. It
didn't work well. The aerosol nozzle kept clogging, and it was messy.

The particles are small enough that you don't have the same problem that
you do with wax. But I'm not sure that it was actually getting into the
pins and rollers.

You really need a lubricant that has a carrier that makes it thin enough
to penetrate and then the carrier evaporates leaving the lubricant
inside. In short, you want a foaming chain lube for non-O ring chains.
These are designed specifically for the unique characteristics of chains.

There aren't many non-O ring motorcycle chains anymore so you probably
have to order it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UKH86Y

  #17  
Old November 13th 18, 07:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,342
Default Chain Lube?

On 11/12/2018 6:31 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

snip

Just buy your moly powder in bulk and mix it in with the carrier of your
choice (oil, wax, a fast evaporating solvent, or a mixture of the above)

https://www.lowerfriction.com/produc...?categoryID=26


Yes, that would work. But most people want a product, not a project.

  #18  
Old November 13th 18, 08:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default Chain Lube?

On 13/11/2018 1:39 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/12/2018 6:31 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

snip

Just buy your moly powder in bulk and mix it in with the carrier of your
choice (oil, wax, a fast evaporating solvent, or a mixture of the above)

https://www.lowerfriction.com/produc...?categoryID=26


Yes, that would work. But most people want a product, not a project.


Yeah, I'd rather spend my free time riding my bike.

What does this do for you anyway that over the counter Finish Line or
similar would do?
  #19  
Old November 13th 18, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,071
Default Chain Lube?

On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:38:08 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:

About 45 years ago I tried molybdenum disulfide on my bicycle chain. It
didn't work well. The aerosol nozzle kept clogging, and it was messy.

The particles are small enough that you don't have the same problem that
you do with wax.


Hmm. The "problem" people really have with wax is that it produces
longer chain life and less friction loss than any other known lubricant. It's also far cleaner, keeping one's bike, leg, pants etc.
clean. In other words, those are not problems, they are great
benefits.

The only real problem is that the lubrication process takes a little
longer (maybe ten minutes if done on the bike, as opposed to a hot
dip method).

"sms" is probably referring to his theoretical idea that the wax
doesn't penetrate and lubricate as well. But lab tests as well as
tons of anecdotal evidence show that his ideas are flat out wrong.
Again.

- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old November 13th 18, 10:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default Chain Lube?

On 13/11/2018 2:38 PM, Duane wrote:
On 13/11/2018 1:39 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/12/2018 6:31 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

snip

Just buy your moly powder in bulk and mix it in with the carrier of your
choice (oil, wax, a fast evaporating solvent, or a mixture of the above)

https://www.lowerfriction.com/produc...?categoryID=26


Yes, that would work. But most people want a product, not a project.


Yeah, I'd rather spend my free time riding my bike.

What does this do for you anyway that over the counter Finish Line or
similar would do?


similar wouldn't do?


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Factory lube/chaincase experiment (X8 chain, Chainglider chain case,Surly SS & Rohloff gears) Andre Jute[_2_] Techniques 15 July 14th 13 08:07 PM
chain lube Mark-T General 8 February 15th 06 10:37 PM
Chain lube Si UK 13 August 20th 05 07:24 AM
CHAIN LUBE CHAIN LUBE CHAIN LUBE [email protected] Techniques 0 March 19th 05 04:52 PM
Chain Lube Doki Mountain Biking 8 October 22nd 04 09:07 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.