Chain Lube?

On Monday, November 12, 2018 at 5:52:23 PM UTC-6, John B. slocomb wrote:
I wonder whether this product might not be a useful chain lube
https://tinyurl.com/yc8dwzfp

cheers,

John B.

Try www.ernestolube.com

jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:08:31 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 1:06 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:54:13 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/11/18 9:50 am, John B. slocomb wrote:


As for the rest of your argument, I performed an actual experiment,
rather then just imagining a result. I took an older chain, cleaned it
in solvent with a final wash in MEK, allowed it to dry and then
lubricated it with the above mentioned lube, allowed that to dry and
then, using a chain tool, disassembled several links and yes, the lub
had penetrated the chain and was evident in the rollers and on the
pins. I subsequently did the same thing using my chain wax formula -
much the same as James's mix - and the same thing happened. The hot
wax did penetrate the links


I often put a chain in hot wax/oil with the quick link put together, so
I don't lose it in the mix. Of course I have to undo it to reinstall
the chain on my bicycle, at which point I notice the wax/oil has
penetrated the pins of the quick link very well, so I conclude that it
has penetrated all the other pins and rollers very well too.

I find it a bit enlightening that those who have use a wax chain lube
all say it works, while those who apparently have never tried it say
it doesn't work :-)



A common phenomenon. See also the ridiculous abuse sometimes
advised for a new leather saddle, usually from a guy who
doesn't ride one.

I've used both -- and think they suck. Hot wax is too much work as
are leather saddles in a wet environment. My old Ideal 90 was growing
mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a plastic
saddle guy.

I might try wax again during the summer just to annoy myself, but I'm
going to make it super-technical wax with PTFE and moly
this-and-that. I might even try some race ski wax or something out of
the ski box. I'll iron it on.

Maybe I'll go back to sew-ups! I bought a new turntable a while back,
and I'm considering a steam-powered computer. As I approach
retirement, I'm looking for things to occupy my time besides
drinking. Here's something:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/...c304ca8c38.jpg I never
did figure out how to get the diamond pattern with Benotto tape.

Tonight I'm going to put reflective tape on my commuter -- some
super-swanky red and white stuff.

I like the reflective pinstripe tape, to outline the fenders. You could
maybe sign your name with it or something.


--

On 11/14/2018 12:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 12:37:45 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 9:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 1:06 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:

I find it a bit enlightening that those who have use a wax chain lube
all say it works, while those who apparently have never tried it say
it doesn't work :-)

A common phenomenon. See also the ridiculous abuse sometimes advised for
a new leather saddle, usually from a guy who doesn't ride one.

BTW, one thing I noticed during our recent trip to Europe: Europeans
seem to use leather saddles far more than Americans do.

I'm not saying leather was the majority, but here in America it's
unusual for me to see a leather saddle on a utility bike or even an
enthusiast's bike. Especially in Basel, Switzerland and in Amsterdam, I
was spotting them all the time. And Amsterdam is not a very dry place.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I think a lot of North Americans are scared away from leather saddles by all the marketing hype that they're uncomfortable until broken in which according to that hype is a long time. Plus the hype about all the care a leather saddle needs. It's like the dread H****T thing = marketing hype convinces people that only those will work for them.

I have a couple of really old WRIGHTS all leather saddles and they are very comfortable and only require a bit of care. I keep the undersides well coated with genuine Dubbin and that seems to work wonders keeping them from soaking up water from wet roads. Of course fenders also go a very long way to keeping water off the underside of any saddle. However, some bicycles just don't have room for fenders.

I was OK with the amount of care required by leather. I just couldn't
find one that was comfortable. I started with a Brooks Champion Narrow
and tried everything possible to make it comfortable. Next was a Brooks
Champion Standard. Eventually I got a bike with a Brooks Pro, honey
color, and supposedly (IIRC) pre-softened. None really worked for me,
even with years of use.

But I don't think it was the fact that they were leather. I just think
we're all different down there. We have to find a shape that works for
us, just like finding a comfortable pair of shoes.

We are Warm Showers hosts, giving shelter and support to touring
cyclists. I notice a disproportionate amount of long distance riders
arrive riding Brooks leather saddles.

I now have a Brooks B-72 on my three speed "about town" bike. The saddle
used to be my wife's, but she moved on to something plastic. The B-72 is
fine for short rides (up to 10 miles or so) on this bike with North Road
bars, but it wouldn't work for me for long distances.



--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/14/2018 12:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:08:31 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 1:06 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:54:13 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/11/18 9:50 am, John B. slocomb wrote:


As for the rest of your argument, I performed an actual experiment,
rather then just imagining a result. I took an older chain, cleaned it
in solvent with a final wash in MEK, allowed it to dry and then
lubricated it with the above mentioned lube, allowed that to dry and
then, using a chain tool, disassembled several links and yes, the lub
had penetrated the chain and was evident in the rollers and on the
pins. I subsequently did the same thing using my chain wax formula -
much the same as James's mix - and the same thing happened. The hot
wax did penetrate the links


I often put a chain in hot wax/oil with the quick link put together, so
I don't lose it in the mix. Of course I have to undo it to reinstall
the chain on my bicycle, at which point I notice the wax/oil has
penetrated the pins of the quick link very well, so I conclude that it
has penetrated all the other pins and rollers very well too.

I find it a bit enlightening that those who have use a wax chain lube
all say it works, while those who apparently have never tried it say
it doesn't work :-)



A common phenomenon. See also the ridiculous abuse sometimes
advised for a new leather saddle, usually from a guy who
doesn't ride one.

I've used both -- and think they suck. Hot wax is too much work as are leather saddles in a wet environment. My old Ideal 90 was growing mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a plastic saddle guy.

I might try wax again during the summer just to annoy myself, but I'm going to make it super-technical wax with PTFE and moly this-and-that. I might even try some race ski wax or something out of the ski box. I'll iron it on.

Maybe I'll go back to sew-ups! I bought a new turntable a while back, and I'm considering a steam-powered computer. As I approach retirement, I'm looking for things to occupy my time besides drinking. Here's something: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/...c304ca8c38.jpg I never did figure out how to get the diamond pattern with Benotto tape.

Tonight I'm going to put reflective tape on my commuter -- some super-swanky red and white stuff.


I wasn't advocating for leather saddles, merely noting that,
as with things like waxed chains, some of the loopiest
cockamamie advice comes from riders (not you) who don't
actually use the product.

c.f. Mr Slocumb's actual field experience vs. 'expert'
blather from the peanut gallery.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 16:09:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/14/2018 12:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 12:37:45 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 9:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 1:06 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:

I find it a bit enlightening that those who have use a wax chain lube
all say it works, while those who apparently have never tried it say
it doesn't work :-)

A common phenomenon. See also the ridiculous abuse sometimes advised for
a new leather saddle, usually from a guy who doesn't ride one.

BTW, one thing I noticed during our recent trip to Europe: Europeans
seem to use leather saddles far more than Americans do.

I'm not saying leather was the majority, but here in America it's
unusual for me to see a leather saddle on a utility bike or even an
enthusiast's bike. Especially in Basel, Switzerland and in Amsterdam, I
was spotting them all the time. And Amsterdam is not a very dry place.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I think a lot of North Americans are scared away from leather saddles by all the marketing hype that they're uncomfortable until broken in which according to that hype is a long time. Plus the hype about all the care a leather saddle needs. It's like the dread H****T thing = marketing hype convinces people that only those will work for them.

I have a couple of really old WRIGHTS all leather saddles and they are very comfortable and only require a bit of care. I keep the undersides well coated with genuine Dubbin and that seems to work wonders keeping them from soaking up water from wet roads. Of course fenders also go a very long way to keeping water off the underside of any saddle. However, some bicycles just don't have room for fenders.

I was OK with the amount of care required by leather. I just couldn't
find one that was comfortable. I started with a Brooks Champion Narrow
and tried everything possible to make it comfortable. Next was a Brooks
Champion Standard. Eventually I got a bike with a Brooks Pro, honey
color, and supposedly (IIRC) pre-softened. None really worked for me,
even with years of use.

But I don't think it was the fact that they were leather. I just think
we're all different down there. We have to find a shape that works for
us, just like finding a comfortable pair of shoes.

We are Warm Showers hosts, giving shelter and support to touring
cyclists. I notice a disproportionate amount of long distance riders
arrive riding Brooks leather saddles.

I now have a Brooks B-72 on my three speed "about town" bike. The saddle
used to be my wife's, but she moved on to something plastic. The B-72 is
fine for short rides (up to 10 miles or so) on this bike with North Road
bars, but it wouldn't work for me for long distances.

If you browse around the web you will find all kinds of leather
saddles that have been modified, often to reduce the width after they
are broken in and I suspect that is the secret. Punch holes in the
damned thing and make it fit.

I've got a Brooks and after suffering through the break-in it still
wasn't comfortable so I trimmed the edges and lashed it into a
narrower model and yes, it was comfortable but it seemed to get awful
hot at the end of a long ride. I replaced it with a cheap old Vello
which seems more comfortable for long rides.

cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 1:18:17 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 12:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:08:31 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2018 1:06 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:54:13 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/11/18 9:50 am, John B. slocomb wrote:


As for the rest of your argument, I performed an actual experiment,
rather then just imagining a result. I took an older chain, cleaned it
in solvent with a final wash in MEK, allowed it to dry and then
lubricated it with the above mentioned lube, allowed that to dry and
then, using a chain tool, disassembled several links and yes, the lub
had penetrated the chain and was evident in the rollers and on the
pins. I subsequently did the same thing using my chain wax formula -
much the same as James's mix - and the same thing happened. The hot
wax did penetrate the links


I often put a chain in hot wax/oil with the quick link put together, so
I don't lose it in the mix. Of course I have to undo it to reinstall
the chain on my bicycle, at which point I notice the wax/oil has
penetrated the pins of the quick link very well, so I conclude that it
has penetrated all the other pins and rollers very well too.

I find it a bit enlightening that those who have use a wax chain lube
all say it works, while those who apparently have never tried it say
it doesn't work :-)



A common phenomenon. See also the ridiculous abuse sometimes
advised for a new leather saddle, usually from a guy who
doesn't ride one.

I've used both -- and think they suck. Hot wax is too much work as are leather saddles in a wet environment. My old Ideal 90 was growing mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a plastic saddle guy.

I might try wax again during the summer just to annoy myself, but I'm going to make it super-technical wax with PTFE and moly this-and-that. I might even try some race ski wax or something out of the ski box. I'll iron it on.

Maybe I'll go back to sew-ups! I bought a new turntable a while back, and I'm considering a steam-powered computer. As I approach retirement, I'm looking for things to occupy my time besides drinking. Here's something: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/...c304ca8c38.jpg I never did figure out how to get the diamond pattern with Benotto tape.

Tonight I'm going to put reflective tape on my commuter -- some super-swanky red and white stuff.


I wasn't advocating for leather saddles, merely noting that,
as with things like waxed chains, some of the loopiest
cockamamie advice comes from riders (not you) who don't
actually use the product.

c.f. Mr Slocumb's actual field experience vs. 'expert'
blather from the peanut gallery.

Although you can get a lot of blather from experts who (for example) may be convinced of leather's superiority. https://clevercycles.com/brands/brooks_brand

I'm actually afraid to go into Clever Cycles while wearing lycra for fear that I will be openly derided or hustled into the back room for a wool intervention -- and then forced to ride a Brompton with a dyno hub!

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:37:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

BTW, one thing I noticed during our recent trip to Europe: Europeans
seem to use leather saddles far more than Americans do.

Brands?

I'm not saying leather was the majority, but here in America it's
unusual for me to see a leather saddle on a utility bike or even an
enthusiast's bike. Especially in Basel, Switzerland and in Amsterdam, I
was spotting them all the time. And Amsterdam is not a very dry place.

IME, leather dressing. Mostly underneath, but a light wipe over the top
helps.

On 15/11/18 8:09 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I was OK with the amount of care required by leather. I just couldn't
find one that was comfortable. I started with a Brooks Champion Narrow
and tried everything possible to make it comfortable. Next was a Brooks
Champion Standard. Eventually I got a bike with a Brooks Pro, honey
color, and supposedly (IIRC) pre-softened. None really worked for me,
even with years of use.

But I don't think it was the fact that they were leather. I just think
we're all different down there. We have to find a shape that works for
us, just like finding a comfortable pair of shoes.

We are Warm Showers hosts, giving shelter and support to touring
cyclists. I notice a disproportionate amount of long distance riders
arrive riding Brooks leather saddles.

I now have a Brooks B-72 on my three speed "about town" bike. The saddle
used to be my wife's, but she moved on to something plastic. The B-72 is
fine for short rides (up to 10 miles or so) on this bike with North Road
bars, but it wouldn't work for me for long distances.


I used to use a Rolls saddle that has a leather upper and foam
underneath. Comfortable enough, but a devil to dry out after a wet ride
and quite heavy compared to the all synthetic saddle I now use.

There was nothing about the Rolls that makes me long for another one.

--
JS

On 11/14/2018 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I'm actually afraid to go into Clever Cycles while wearing lycra for fear that I will be openly derided or hustled into the back room for a wool intervention -- and then forced to ride a Brompton with a dyno hub!

Ah, Jay, you have so much to learn!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 15/11/18 5:36 am, jbeattie wrote:


I've used both -- and think they suck. Hot wax is too much work as
are leather saddles in a wet environment. My old Ideal 90 was
growing mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a
plastic saddle guy.

I might try wax again during the summer just to annoy myself, but I'm
going to make it super-technical wax with PTFE and moly
this-and-that. I might even try some race ski wax or something out of
the ski box. I'll iron it on.

Maybe I'll go back to sew-ups! I bought a new turntable a while
back, and I'm considering a steam-powered computer. As I approach
retirement, I'm looking for things to occupy my time besides
drinking. Here's something:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/...c304ca8c38.jpg I never
did figure out how to get the diamond pattern with Benotto tape.

Tonight I'm going to put reflective tape on my commuter -- some
super-swanky red and white stuff.

Why not add some reflective particles to the wax lube, and have a
super-swanky reflective chain?

--
JS