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French bike, triple dreams



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 19th 06, 07:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default French bike, triple dreams

I have a Peugeot PX10 from the 1970s, which makes a dandy touring bike.
But I'm not so young anymore. I converted it to all Campy many years
ago, but now want to put a triple crankset on for loaded touring
without going broke in the process (TA would be nice, but would cost
more than $300 once I finish paying for the new bottom bracket,
chainrings, etc.--if anyone knows where to get a triple TA with French
thread for cheap, lemme know). Any rate, what I'd like to do is replace
just the spindle, keeping the existing Campy cups and bearings, and
then throw on a Sugino or equivalent, i.e. affordable, triple. Is this
possible? Anyone know what spindle would work with the Campy bottom
bracket and a crankset with a 30-tooth inside chainring (or even
lower)? I want something with a 52 tooth big ring for when the wind's
at my back and a granny bail-out gear for when it's not. Any other
options to get me to my destination for $100 or so would be much
appreciated. Thanks.

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  #2  
Old June 19th 06, 09:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default French bike, triple dreams

bruceinillinois wrote:
I have a Peugeot PX10 from the 1970s, which makes a dandy touring bike.
But I'm not so young anymore. I converted it to all Campy many years
ago, but now want to put a triple crankset on for loaded touring
without going broke in the process (TA would be nice, but would cost
more than $300 once I finish paying for the new bottom bracket,
chainrings, etc.--if anyone knows where to get a triple TA with French
thread for cheap, lemme know). Any rate, what I'd like to do is replace
just the spindle, keeping the existing Campy cups and bearings, and
then throw on a Sugino or equivalent, i.e. affordable, triple. Is this
possible? Anyone know what spindle would work with the Campy bottom
bracket and a crankset with a 30-tooth inside chainring (or even
lower)? I want something with a 52 tooth big ring for when the wind's
at my back and a granny bail-out gear for when it's not. Any other
options to get me to my destination for $100 or so would be much
appreciated. Thanks.


I think you're on the right track with the Sugino idea. There are some
serendipitously compatible Campy-Sugino combinations, though they may
not be the ones you'd need. I'd check with Andy Muzi at
yellowjersey.org, who sells the Suginos and knows about BB-compatibility
issues. He might even be able to supply a French-thread BB cheap, who
knows, although Sheldon Brown seems to specialize more in the
French-thread stuff (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/).

Once you get the crank & BB sorted, you *may* need a new front
derailleur, and almost certainly a new rear one, unless yours is already
a long-cage affair.

Good luck,

Mark

  #3  
Old June 19th 06, 11:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams

Thanks, Mark. I know Sheldon Brown is the pro on this kind of stuff,
but I'm hoping for a second opinion in hopes of finding a cheap-o but
effective way to do this. I think I could probably put a Phil Wood BB
on--$100 for the BB, and another $45 for the retainer rings(apparently
Phil still offers a French thread version) from Sheldon--then go with a
$40 Nashbar-brand triple (52-42-30), but Lordy. A Sugino set-up would
be so sweet--and, this just in, his Web site now says they have Sugino
BB's (cups only) in French thread. I'll deal with the derailleur bridge
when I get to it. I've got two options for the back: A Campy Rally or
(better yet) a mint-condition Cyclone (my spare parts bin is straight
from the wayback machine). The front promises to be much more of an
adventure, especially if I throw caution to the wind and find a crank
with a 28. I recall Cyclone (maybe it was Huret) made some wacky
looking front derailleurs with extra-long cages that could handle
something like that. We shall, hopefully, see.

Mark wrote:
bruceinillinois wrote:
I have a Peugeot PX10 from the 1970s, which makes a dandy touring bike.
But I'm not so young anymore. I converted it to all Campy many years
ago, but now want to put a triple crankset on for loaded touring
without going broke in the process (TA would be nice, but would cost
more than $300 once I finish paying for the new bottom bracket,
chainrings, etc.--if anyone knows where to get a triple TA with French
thread for cheap, lemme know). Any rate, what I'd like to do is replace
just the spindle, keeping the existing Campy cups and bearings, and
then throw on a Sugino or equivalent, i.e. affordable, triple. Is this
possible? Anyone know what spindle would work with the Campy bottom
bracket and a crankset with a 30-tooth inside chainring (or even
lower)? I want something with a 52 tooth big ring for when the wind's
at my back and a granny bail-out gear for when it's not. Any other
options to get me to my destination for $100 or so would be much
appreciated. Thanks.


I think you're on the right track with the Sugino idea. There are some
serendipitously compatible Campy-Sugino combinations, though they may
not be the ones you'd need. I'd check with Andy Muzi at
yellowjersey.org, who sells the Suginos and knows about BB-compatibility
issues. He might even be able to supply a French-thread BB cheap, who
knows, although Sheldon Brown seems to specialize more in the
French-thread stuff (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/).

Once you get the crank & BB sorted, you *may* need a new front
derailleur, and almost certainly a new rear one, unless yours is already
a long-cage affair.

Good luck,

Mark


  #4  
Old June 19th 06, 11:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams


bruceinillinois wrote:
Thanks, Mark. I know Sheldon Brown is the pro on this kind of stuff,
but I'm hoping for a second opinion in hopes of finding a cheap-o but
effective way to do this. I think I could probably put a Phil Wood BB
on--$100 for the BB, and another $45 for the retainer rings(apparently
Phil still offers a French thread version) from Sheldon--then go with a
$40 Nashbar-brand triple (52-42-30), but Lordy. A Sugino set-up would
be so sweet--and, this just in, his Web site now says they have Sugino
BB's (cups only) in French thread. I'll deal with the derailleur bridge
when I get to it. I've got two options for the back: A Campy Rally or
(better yet) a mint-condition Cyclone (my spare parts bin is straight
from the wayback machine). The front promises to be much more of an
adventure, especially if I throw caution to the wind and find a crank
with a 28. I recall Cyclone (maybe it was Huret) made some wacky
looking front derailleurs with extra-long cages that could handle
something like that. We shall, hopefully, see.


Bruce, I have done something similar with my ca. 1974 Motobecanne Grand
Jubile. I found some Sugino french thread cups (but I think your Campy
cups will work, just be aware that there are 2 versions: standard and
those with thinner "walls" that are similar to French made cups (e.g.,
Stronglight). This will affect your choice of spindles), an NOS Shimano
XT (FC-730) crank and an NOS Shimano DX FD. I used a fairly short
spindle, giving a chainline more like a double, since I would only use
the granny on the innermost 3 cogs. I also spread the rear to accept a
7 SP FW. It all works wonderfully, and the Moto is one of my favorite
rides.

  #5  
Old June 20th 06, 12:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams

greetings bruceinillinois,

i have two recommendations

1. For a vintage look, get a campy triomphe double crank (116 bcd) on
ebay for about $10 - $20. Triplizer bolts are $5 at
www.biketoolsetc.com. The inner 35T and 36T rings are still
available, occasionally, from places like www.bicycleclassics.com,
i believe, or email me for other possible sources.

This crank uses a 109 mm bottom bracket, so on a nuovo record
112mm bottom bracket a triple chainline might be almost perfect if
you add an inner ring. Achievable front gear combos are 35/42/52,
of maybe 36/42/53, depending upon ring availability.

2. Otherwise, get a veloce or centaur double or triple and use a
9-speed chain. Common gear combos are 39/53 or 30-42-52. Bicycle
cog width HASN'T CHANGED (mostly 1.8 - 2.0 mm) in about 40 years,
what has changed is that chains have gotten more narrow _on the
outside only_, and the space between front chainwheels have gotten
more narrow to avoid jams between the chainwheels. So you will
have no difficulties running a 9-speed or even a 10-speed
(campy-type) chain on your vintage rear freewheel. Note that
10-speed shimano HAS CHANGED the cog width, so stay away from that
stuff. The AC-H bottom bracket should work just fine.

Good luck!!

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
  #7  
Old June 20th 06, 01:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams

Hey Now,

Don't tell anyone, but old Motebecanes rawk. Once found a Le Champion
(bright orange with black decals/detailing and full Campy, mint) for a
little bit of nothing that fit my mom, who stands 5'3", and got so
jacked she started buying Jack Taylors, then Kleins and beyond. I think
I stole it for $300 or so before Michael Jackson released his first
solo album. Eventually became my sister's bike. But that's another
story.

Googled the part number and came up with nothing. Hmmmm. That's
promising, somehow. Have to confess, though, I have no idea what a DX
FD--wait: You mean front derailleur, right?

OK. I'm ready to shame myself and go to the Shimano Dark Side, so long
as it works. I've had some suggestions to just go with a mountain bike
triple, but that's not gonna work because I'll be needing (I hope) that
52. Tell me, what's the tooth sizes you got with your triple? Like I
say, I'll settle for a 30, but I prefer a 28. Or even a 24. Like I say,
I'm getting old.... (And I know better than to go with granny in front
and anything smaller than a 20-or-so in back). And, if you know off the
top, how long is the spindle you're running? The Nashbar folks say
theirs fits a 115mm spindle. Then again, they also mentioned the word
"cartridge" in telling me what works. Sigh.



wrote:
bruceinillinois wrote:
Thanks, Mark. I know Sheldon Brown is the pro on this kind of stuff,
but I'm hoping for a second opinion in hopes of finding a cheap-o but
effective way to do this. I think I could probably put a Phil Wood BB
on--$100 for the BB, and another $45 for the retainer rings(apparently
Phil still offers a French thread version) from Sheldon--then go with a
$40 Nashbar-brand triple (52-42-30), but Lordy. A Sugino set-up would
be so sweet--and, this just in, his Web site now says they have Sugino
BB's (cups only) in French thread. I'll deal with the derailleur bridge
when I get to it. I've got two options for the back: A Campy Rally or
(better yet) a mint-condition Cyclone (my spare parts bin is straight
from the wayback machine). The front promises to be much more of an
adventure, especially if I throw caution to the wind and find a crank
with a 28. I recall Cyclone (maybe it was Huret) made some wacky
looking front derailleurs with extra-long cages that could handle
something like that. We shall, hopefully, see.


Bruce, I have done something similar with my ca. 1974 Motobecanne Grand
Jubile. I found some Sugino french thread cups (but I think your Campy
cups will work, just be aware that there are 2 versions: standard and
those with thinner "walls" that are similar to French made cups (e.g.,
Stronglight). This will affect your choice of spindles), an NOS Shimano
XT (FC-730) crank and an NOS Shimano DX FD. I used a fairly short
spindle, giving a chainline more like a double, since I would only use
the granny on the innermost 3 cogs. I also spread the rear to accept a
7 SP FW. It all works wonderfully, and the Moto is one of my favorite
rides.


  #8  
Old June 20th 06, 01:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams

Thanks, Don. Yeah, French is weird. I've considered the Phil Wood
option, which at present is my fall back position. I just wanna
engineer something that works for less than the bike is worth, which is
about $200 in real money and priceless in sentimental value--we've been
through a lot together, including Seattle-to-Monterey-and-back, western
Montana, Oregon Cascades and loads else...

Donald Gillies wrote:
(Donald Gillies) writes:

The AC-H bottom bracket should work just fine.


Whoops, i missed the "french cups" aspect to your email, sorry !!

The two common solutions to this problem are (a) Buy a new wider
spindle, sheldon advertises them, or (b) Get a Phil-wood type of
bottom bracket. A variant of (b) Is to just purchase the Phil Wood
retaining rings (french threads), and use a Shimano UN-72 bottom
bracket (out of print - look on Ebay, UN-71 and UN-73 won't work), or
Campagnolo Chorus or other discount cartridge where both cups are
removable.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA


  #9  
Old June 20th 06, 03:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams


bruceinillinois wrote:
Hey Now,

Don't tell anyone, but old Motebecanes rawk. Once found a Le Champion
(bright orange with black decals/detailing and full Campy, mint)


I would like to find a Le Champion, with the lilac paint job. If the
one you found was orange with Campy stuff, I think it was a Team
Champion.


for a
little bit of nothing that fit my mom, who stands 5'3", and got so
jacked she started buying Jack Taylors, then Kleins and beyond. I think
I stole it for $300 or so before Michael Jackson released his first
solo album. Eventually became my sister's bike. But that's another
story.

Googled the part number and came up with nothing. Hmmmm. That's
promising, somehow.


Do you mean the XT FC-M730 crank? It is long discontinued; from the
pre-XTR days when XT was essentially Dure-ace quality for touring/mtb
use. I found a guy who had a few a couple of years ago and bought
three. The Sugino XD is a good choice, too, but a bit more "modern"
looking. I like the XT both for it's quality and it's classic looks.


Have to confess, though, I have no idea what a DX
FD--wait: You mean front derailleur, right?


Yes a Shimano DX FD-M650. I wanted an XT but couldn't find one. There's
really not much difference anyway.


OK. I'm ready to shame myself and go to the Shimano Dark Side, so long
as it works.


Well, if you have an easier time with Suntour (you mentioned a Cyclone
RD), some of the old Suntour MTB stuff (XC-Pro, XC-Comp) will work just
fine, too.


I've had some suggestions to just go with a mountain bike
triple, but that's not gonna work because I'll be needing (I hope) that
52.


Sugino makes a 52 in the 110mm BCD



Tell me, what's the tooth sizes you got with your triple?


It came 46/36/26. I put on 48/38/28

Like I
say, I'll settle for a 30, but I prefer a 28. Or even a 24. Like I say,
I'm getting old.... (And I know better than to go with granny in front
and anything smaller than a 20-or-so in back). And, if you know off the
top, how long is the spindle you're running?


IIRC, the spindle is 116mm. If you decide to go with (and can find) an
XT/DX/LX crank from that period, let me know and I'll measure it to be
sure.



The Nashbar folks say
theirs fits a 115mm spindle. Then again, they also mentioned the word
"cartridge" in telling me what works. Sigh.


The Nashbar crank is made by Tracer. It's a 130/74 mm BCD crank, not a
110/74 like the Sugino XD or my Shimano XT. Decent quality, but very
"modern" looking. OTOH, it comes with the 52T outer you want You could
swap out the 30 for a 28 or 26, if needed. A 24 *might* be impractical,
possibly exceeding the capacity of the FD. It takes a 115mm symetrical
spindle, but something a bit might work (haven't tried it)if you want
more of a double chainline, with the granny mounted very close to the
chainstay.


wrote:
bruceinillinois wrote:
Thanks, Mark. I know Sheldon Brown is the pro on this kind of stuff,
but I'm hoping for a second opinion in hopes of finding a cheap-o but
effective way to do this. I think I could probably put a Phil Wood BB
on--$100 for the BB, and another $45 for the retainer rings(apparently
Phil still offers a French thread version) from Sheldon--then go with a
$40 Nashbar-brand triple (52-42-30), but Lordy. A Sugino set-up would
be so sweet--and, this just in, his Web site now says they have Sugino
BB's (cups only) in French thread. I'll deal with the derailleur bridge
when I get to it. I've got two options for the back: A Campy Rally or
(better yet) a mint-condition Cyclone (my spare parts bin is straight
from the wayback machine). The front promises to be much more of an
adventure, especially if I throw caution to the wind and find a crank
with a 28. I recall Cyclone (maybe it was Huret) made some wacky
looking front derailleurs with extra-long cages that could handle
something like that. We shall, hopefully, see.


Bruce, I have done something similar with my ca. 1974 Motobecanne Grand
Jubile. I found some Sugino french thread cups (but I think your Campy
cups will work, just be aware that there are 2 versions: standard and
those with thinner "walls" that are similar to French made cups (e.g.,
Stronglight). This will affect your choice of spindles), an NOS Shimano
XT (FC-730) crank and an NOS Shimano DX FD. I used a fairly short
spindle, giving a chainline more like a double, since I would only use
the granny on the innermost 3 cogs. I also spread the rear to accept a
7 SP FW. It all works wonderfully, and the Moto is one of my favorite
rides.


  #10  
Old June 20th 06, 03:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default French bike, triple dreams


"bruceinillinois" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a Peugeot PX10 from the 1970s, which makes a dandy touring bike.
But I'm not so young anymore. I converted it to all Campy many years
ago, but now want to put a triple crankset on for loaded touring
without going broke in the process (TA would be nice, but would cost
more than $300 once I finish paying for the new bottom bracket,
chainrings, etc.--if anyone knows where to get a triple TA with French
thread for cheap, lemme know). Any rate, what I'd like to do is replace
just the spindle, keeping the existing Campy cups and bearings, and
then throw on a Sugino or equivalent, i.e. affordable, triple. Is this
possible? Anyone know what spindle would work with the Campy bottom
bracket and a crankset with a 30-tooth inside chainring (or even
lower)? I want something with a 52 tooth big ring for when the wind's
at my back and a granny bail-out gear for when it's not. Any other
options to get me to my destination for $100 or so would be much
appreciated. Thanks.


I am doing this exact conversion on a 70's vintage Crescent bicycle.
Swedish bike with a French-threaded BB. Go figure.

Anyway, your Campy cups will work with the majority of old-style square
taper bottom bracket spindles. There are 2 types of Campy cups, thin and
thick. In my experience, the thick cups outnumbered the thin by a wide
margin. If you have the thick cups, then any of the 3-series BB spindles
will be compatible, which were 90% those ever made. French BB's were the
same width as English threaded (68mm), so you should a lot to choose from.

My plan is to keep the existing cups and bearings, and replace the BB
spindle with something about 127-130mm wide for use with a Sugino AT
crankset. I pulled the crankset off of a bike at the local recycling depot.
Excellent cold-forged crankset with 28-40-52 rings. Total cost: $5 for the
spindle and a few more bucks for a Shimano long-cage front and rear
derailleurs. Spend $100 for a Phil Wood BB? As if......


 




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