Some bicycling is really expensive for parts

On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 10:24:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2018 12:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 5:24:37 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN! https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers

You want ridiculous . . . sorry, Andrew, but really? http://www.bikeattack.com/bianchi-eroica-sale/ MSRP $4K on sale for only $3,700 -- for Dia-compe CP brakes and a knock-off three-spider crank of yore that I wouldn't have bought back in the "pre-1987" era, which is apparently the index point for "old." https://magazine.bikesoup.com/bianchi-leroica


This frame looks like something from the '60s, however, and certainly pre-77-ish when most of the manufacturers started trending towards braze-on TT cable guides. The old style cable clips allow you to snag your wool shorts on little bolt-ends. Always a feature I liked. My son saw the brake cables and worried about strangulation hazard, but I told him that back in the days of yore, us hard men accepted that risk.

I love the bike soup article:

"it's not being geeky and pretentious about vintage mechanics or a manufacturing process of a time gone by, it's about getting into the spirit of a style of racing that is seemingly far-removed from what we have now. It's a handsome sort of riding where pastries were as important as the climbs and style was as abundant as the passion. Long live Eroica events, and bikes like the Bianchi L'Eroica, for keeping the spirit of those legends and their endurances alive. It may be a new bike, but the smile it creates is as old as the sport itself."

Pffff. I about blew my coffee out. WTF? Racing has always been about hacking a lung -- it certainly wasn't about looking good and eating pastries because pastries were as important as the climbs, at least not when I started in the '70s. You wore a bunch of wooly stuff because that's what was on the market or what was sold as mandatory team gear. You rode Italiano frames with BBs that wanted to unscrew, friction shifting crap, nail-on cleats and then went out and beat yourself to death unless you were that genetic freak who made it look easy. I think the bikesoup people are smoking something.


People race all kings of vintage hardwa
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6197/6...ebee0359_z.jpg

and classic motorcycles, airplanes, boats (probably old
horses too for all I know)

And boats, etc., but think of Tommy Simpson suffering on Mont Ventoux -- "put me back on my bike . . . I need to buy a pastry . . . a croissant. . . aaaak!" Who comes up with all the **** about days of yore being a "handsome sort of riding where pastries were as important as the climbs"? Racing has always been about suffering, and you can bet all these "handsome" racers of yore would have killed to get a UCI minimum CF uber-bike with 11sp and a real gear range. Tommy might be alive today if he had a 34/30 and maybe some better drugs. I mean really, who thinks that strychnine is performance enhancing. It's like the dopes who took a smoke before the big climb. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/79...d48efc6bd1.png I think that the people who do retro racing should be expressly limited to retro drugs -- and retro medical care after a crash, maybe some leaches and mercury salts for infection.

-- Jay Beattie.



I don't know who writes all the goofy **** about the old days.

On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:17:45 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 10:24:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2018 12:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 5:24:37 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN! https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers

You want ridiculous . . . sorry, Andrew, but really? http://www.bikeattack.com/bianchi-eroica-sale/ MSRP $4K on sale for only $3,700 -- for Dia-compe CP brakes and a knock-off three-spider crank of yore that I wouldn't have bought back in the "pre-1987" era, which is apparently the index point for "old." https://magazine.bikesoup.com/bianchi-leroica


This frame looks like something from the '60s, however, and certainly pre-77-ish when most of the manufacturers started trending towards braze-on TT cable guides. The old style cable clips allow you to snag your wool shorts on little bolt-ends. Always a feature I liked. My son saw the brake cables and worried about strangulation hazard, but I told him that back in the days of yore, us hard men accepted that risk.

I love the bike soup article:

"it's not being geeky and pretentious about vintage mechanics or a manufacturing process of a time gone by, it's about getting into the spirit of a style of racing that is seemingly far-removed from what we have now. It's a handsome sort of riding where pastries were as important as the climbs and style was as abundant as the passion. Long live Eroica events, and bikes like the Bianchi L'Eroica, for keeping the spirit of those legends and their endurances alive. It may be a new bike, but the smile it creates is as old as the sport itself."

Pffff. I about blew my coffee out. WTF? Racing has always been about hacking a lung -- it certainly wasn't about looking good and eating pastries because pastries were as important as the climbs, at least not when I started in the '70s. You wore a bunch of wooly stuff because that's what was on the market or what was sold as mandatory team gear. You rode Italiano frames with BBs that wanted to unscrew, friction shifting crap, nail-on cleats and then went out and beat yourself to death unless you were that genetic freak who made it look easy. I think the bikesoup people are smoking something.


People race all kings of vintage hardwa
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6197/6...ebee0359_z.jpg

and classic motorcycles, airplanes, boats (probably old
horses too for all I know)

And boats, etc., but think of Tommy Simpson suffering on Mont Ventoux -- "put me back on my bike . . . I need to buy a pastry . . . a croissant. . . aaaak!" Who comes up with all the **** about days of yore being a "handsome sort of riding where pastries were as important as the climbs"? Racing has always been about suffering, and you can bet all these "handsome" racers of yore would have killed to get a UCI minimum CF uber-bike with 11sp and a real gear range. Tommy might be alive today if he had a 34/30 and maybe some better drugs. I mean really, who thinks that strychnine is performance enhancing. It's like the dopes who took a smoke before the big climb. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/79...d48efc6bd1.png I think that the people who do retro racing should be expressly limited to retro drugs -- and retro medical care after a crash, maybe some leaches and mercury salts for infection.

-- Jay Beattie.



I don't know who writes all the goofy **** about the old days.

I think that strychnine is, in fact, a performance enhancing drug all
be it not to be compared with more modern goodies.

See:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-strychni...drug-512532345

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carmend.../#4e90be3c747e
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 23:32:46 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:15:08 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 04/08/2018 11:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 17:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a
cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on
the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL
Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire
Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN!
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive
and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers


I suspect that is very much a matter of "you want it, we got it". the
extra cost of making a 12 speed cassette would be the cost of making
two more cassette cogs, assuming a road bike type cassette. Many cogs
appear to be stamped out so once the tooling is paid for it would be a
matter of Stamp, Stamp. Plus, of course the cost of the steel plate
used.

I'm fairly sure that this is true of most bicycle parts and
components.
--

Cheers,

John B.



2 more than what? 11 speed is pretty standard these days. Anyway, you
can find 12 speed cassettes for a lot less than the one SRA listed. I
don't think it's the extra cog that makes it that expensive.

Well, yes, the hub is slightly longer to allow for the two extra cogs
and their spacer, but this and the added material in the two added
cogs (or one if you wish) are almost immaterial when it comes to
automated manufacturing the difference in cost of, oh say, a ton of
sheet steel to punch cogs from and 1 ton and 2 ounces is how much, do
you reckon?
The software and hardware is no different, with the difference of a
few lines of code. Direct personnel costs are nearly invisible - pick
up 11 cogs? Pick up 12 cogs?

Frankly I can't see any manufacturing costs that would vary
appreciable so what is the justification for the jump in price? A
bigger cardboard box to pack the cassette in?

Or just maybe the Sales Department is aware that there is a whole
population out there who will spend big sums of money to have the
latest "NEW" cassette.
--

Cheers,

John B.


You’re missing the point though. I provided a link for a similar 12 speed
cassette at less than half the price.

The woods are full of sites offering 12 speed cassettes at
substantially lower prices than the O.P. quoted. I see one 11-50, 12
speed, for 56.22 Euros and I had assumed that he was discussing a
specific cassette not 12 speeds in general.

Thus my answer.

--

Cheers,

John B.

That's correct John.

Cheers

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 23:32:46 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:15:08 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 04/08/2018 11:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 17:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a
cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on
the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL
Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire
Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN!
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive
and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers


I suspect that is very much a matter of "you want it, we got it". the
extra cost of making a 12 speed cassette would be the cost of making
two more cassette cogs, assuming a road bike type cassette. Many cogs
appear to be stamped out so once the tooling is paid for it would be a
matter of Stamp, Stamp. Plus, of course the cost of the steel plate
used.

I'm fairly sure that this is true of most bicycle parts and
components.
--

Cheers,

John B.



2 more than what? 11 speed is pretty standard these days. Anyway, you
can find 12 speed cassettes for a lot less than the one SRA listed. I
don't think it's the extra cog that makes it that expensive.

Well, yes, the hub is slightly longer to allow for the two extra cogs
and their spacer, but this and the added material in the two added
cogs (or one if you wish) are almost immaterial when it comes to
automated manufacturing the difference in cost of, oh say, a ton of
sheet steel to punch cogs from and 1 ton and 2 ounces is how much, do
you reckon?
The software and hardware is no different, with the difference of a
few lines of code. Direct personnel costs are nearly invisible - pick
up 11 cogs? Pick up 12 cogs?

Frankly I can't see any manufacturing costs that would vary
appreciable so what is the justification for the jump in price? A
bigger cardboard box to pack the cassette in?

Or just maybe the Sales Department is aware that there is a whole
population out there who will spend big sums of money to have the
latest "NEW" cassette.
--

Cheers,

John B.


You’re missing the point though. I provided a link for a similar 12 speed
cassette at less than half the price.

The woods are full of sites offering 12 speed cassettes at
substantially lower prices than the O.P. quoted. I see one 11-50, 12
speed, for 56.22 Euros and I had assumed that he was discussing a
specific cassette not 12 speeds in general.

Thus my answer.

--

Cheers,

John B.


But you seemed to be talking about the additional cogs. I guess I missed
YOUR point.

--
duane

On 8/6/2018 3:13 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

Frankly I can't see any manufacturing costs that would vary
appreciable so what is the justification for the jump in price? A
bigger cardboard box to pack the cassette in?

1. Manufacturing costs are irrelevant when pricing a product, it's what
the market will bear.

2. They need no justification.

3. When this sort of insane pricing occurs, someone comes in to dirupt
the market. In this case, the disrupter is the Sunrace 11 speed, 11-50
cassette.
https://singletrackworld.com/2018/02/need-more-range-on-your-1x11-drivetrain-we-review-the-enormous-11-50t-mx80-cassette-from-sunrace/.
No one needs a 12 speed cassette, but some people do desire the 50 tooth
rear cog.

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 8:24:37 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN! https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers

Addendum.

When I made the original post it was because I marveled at the very high price of that tire, cassette and chain. How can any manufacturer justify such a high price for a tire or a cassette?

Cheers

Do manufacturers "justify" their costs?

On Tue, 7 Aug 2018 10:36:19 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 23:32:46 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:15:08 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 04/08/2018 11:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 17:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a
cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on
the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL
Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire
Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN!
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive
and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers


I suspect that is very much a matter of "you want it, we got it". the
extra cost of making a 12 speed cassette would be the cost of making
two more cassette cogs, assuming a road bike type cassette. Many cogs
appear to be stamped out so once the tooling is paid for it would be a
matter of Stamp, Stamp. Plus, of course the cost of the steel plate
used.

I'm fairly sure that this is true of most bicycle parts and
components.
--

Cheers,

John B.



2 more than what? 11 speed is pretty standard these days. Anyway, you
can find 12 speed cassettes for a lot less than the one SRA listed. I
don't think it's the extra cog that makes it that expensive.

Well, yes, the hub is slightly longer to allow for the two extra cogs
and their spacer, but this and the added material in the two added
cogs (or one if you wish) are almost immaterial when it comes to
automated manufacturing the difference in cost of, oh say, a ton of
sheet steel to punch cogs from and 1 ton and 2 ounces is how much, do
you reckon?
The software and hardware is no different, with the difference of a
few lines of code. Direct personnel costs are nearly invisible - pick
up 11 cogs? Pick up 12 cogs?

Frankly I can't see any manufacturing costs that would vary
appreciable so what is the justification for the jump in price? A
bigger cardboard box to pack the cassette in?

Or just maybe the Sales Department is aware that there is a whole
population out there who will spend big sums of money to have the
latest "NEW" cassette.
--

Cheers,

John B.


You’re missing the point though. I provided a link for a similar 12 speed
cassette at less than half the price.

The woods are full of sites offering 12 speed cassettes at
substantially lower prices than the O.P. quoted. I see one 11-50, 12
speed, for 56.22 Euros and I had assumed that he was discussing a
specific cassette not 12 speeds in general.

Thus my answer.

--

Cheers,

John B.


But you seemed to be talking about the additional cogs. I guess I missed
YOUR point.

Probably we both missed :-)

On 8/7/2018 11:15 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 8:24:37 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN! https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers

Addendum.

When I made the original post it was because I marveled at the very high price of that tire, cassette and chain. How can any manufacturer justify such a high price for a tire or a cassette?

Cheers

Do manufacturers "justify" their costs?


Yes, contrasted with their prices and expenses, to the
shareholders, annually.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 07 Aug 2018 11:45:43 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/7/2018 11:15 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 8:24:37 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN! https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers

Addendum.

When I made the original post it was because I marveled at the very high price of that tire, cassette and chain. How can any manufacturer justify such a high price for a tire or a cassette?

Cheers

Do manufacturers "justify" their costs?


Yes, contrasted with their prices and expenses, to the
shareholders, annually.


Ah yes, I was a presenter at my company's annual meetings for
years.... and the justification was usually "why did you bid that
project so low" :-)

We once made $250,000 over and above the price we bid as we had
grossly mis-estimated the equipment maintenance costs. Funny, nobody
even mentioned this "mistake" :-)

On 07/08/2018 12:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 8:24:37 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was looking at the Mountain Equipment Co-Op site for tires and a cassette for a 700C hybrid that I'm tuning up for a friend. Whilst on the site I saw 26" tire for $240.00 CDN. Vee Tire Co Snowshoe XL Studded 26" Tire https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-2...ded-26%22-Tire Btw the tire is made in Thailand.

Then I saw a 12 speed cassette 10 -50 teeth for $611.00 CDN! https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-7...Speed-Cassette

What gives with these prices? Car tires are not nearly that expensive and I bet motorcycle tires cost less too.

Baffled by these prices.

Cheers

Addendum.

When I made the original post it was because I marveled at the very high price of that tire, cassette and chain. How can any manufacturer justify such a high price for a tire or a cassette?

Cheers

Do manufacturers "justify" their costs?


Yes by sales.