New BUMM premium Cyo, Fly and Icon coming in November -- +output +spread

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:55:27 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:19:46 PM UTC-4, Peter Howard wrote:

... They are good people to deal with. Not long ago they sent me the wrong B&M

lamp (one digit difference in SKU). When I 'mailed to tell them they 'mailed

back inside three hours to say they had just put the correct one in the post

and not to bother sending the wrong one back. Amazing.

Wow. Impressive.

- Frank Krygowski

Now you see, Franki-boy, if you weren't such a jerk-up and read my posts properly, again and again until you understood them, you wouldn't have been ripped off all these years. See, according to Google, I've recommended XXcycle in Toulouse 23 times since 2009. You could have bought the good stuff, also recommended by me, cheap all these years. Knowing what a cheapskate you are, that must really hurt. I feel for you.

Please join with me in congratulating Little Howie on getting it right, this once.

Andre Jute
Always ahead of the wave

Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:19:46 AM UTC+1, Peter Howard wrote:

For mail order I can recommend:

http://www.xxcycle.com/dynamo-front-...?allItems=true

in Toulouse, France. They are the cheapest I've been able to find
anywhere

and their international postage costs are very reasonable. T

PH

Couldn't agree more, Little Howie. According to Google I have only
recommended XXcycle in Toulouse 23 times. Glad to see that at last
you've caught up not only on the good components, which I've been
recommending since forever, but on the good stores, which I've been
recommending since forever.

Even better, this allows us to measure your comprehension quotient:
you only need to be told something 23 times for it to stick. Must
make it difficult to keep a job...

Andre Jute
Always ahead of the wave

Poor old ****** Jute. I 've been buying from xxcycle since 2004. That's some
time before you arrived on RBT pretending to be a famous technical writer.
You really can't stand it can you, when readily available products that you
try to imbue with an air of mystique and exclusivity simply because you
choose them are also used by people who despise you.
Contemptuously....

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:36:46 AM UTC+1, Peter Howard wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:19:46 AM UTC+1, Peter Howard wrote:
For mail order I can recommend:
http://www.xxcycle.com/dynamo-front-...?allItems=true
in Toulouse, France. They are the cheapest I've been able to find
anywhere
and their international postage costs are very reasonable. T
PH

Couldn't agree more, Little Howie. According to Google I have only
recommended XXcycle in Toulouse 23 times. Glad to see that at last
you've caught up not only on the good components, which I've been
recommending since forever, but on the good stores, which I've been
recommending since forever.
Even better, this allows us to measure your comprehension quotient:
you only need to be told something 23 times for it to stick. Must
make it difficult to keep a job...
Andre Jute
Always ahead of the wave

Poor old ****** Jute. I 've been buying from xxcycle since 2004.

And you waited all this time to share a good dealer with us? I, for one, find that hard to believe.

That's some
time before you arrived on RBT pretending to be a famous technical writer..

Oh, I don't "pretend to be a famous technical writer"; that's your wet dream not mine. I am a technical writer; count my books. I'm comfortable leaving fame to those who come behind:

"Just about every automobile manufacturer short of Porsche could learn something useful from Jute's book. We always knew suspensions were important, but he infuses them with excitement and art." -- CAR

"A thorough and useful handbook." -- Express

"He is not afraid to tackle the difficult subjects and make them clear for everyone else." --MacUser

Where are your books, Little Howie? Or any technical contribution you've made, no matter how small? Come on, even some mickey mouse crap that we can misrepresent as somehow important? Just one teenie little "contribution"? Envy is such an unattractive emotion.

You really can't stand it can you, when readily available products that you
try to imbue with an air of mystique and exclusivity simply because you
choose them are also used by people who despise you.

Boutique goods? Nah, you haven't been paying attention, Little Howie. I'm big on plain Shimano Deore and have said so, repeatedly, for years and years.. I'm a Calvinist; I don't believe in ostentatious consumption, like you would if you afford it. I do value for money, every time. You're just too poorly informed, and spiteful, to notice. You have no grace, and it shows; it's a matter of breeding, but I'll have to go into the malice of congenitally criminal peasants another day as now there's a special offer on my favourite Corton at the German supermarket in town and I have to get there before my neighbours clear the shelf.

Contemptuously....

Ooh, my feelings are hurt! Jesus, you poor dull jerk, even your signature is copied from me. Can't you manage even a shred of originality? Do you really have to be such an embarrassment?

Unsigned for the usual reason, which Little Howie has kindly spelt out for me...

On 10/08/2013 04:43 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 6:46:35 PM UTC+1, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/08/2013 12:13 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:47:18 PM UTC+1, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 10/08/2013 09:24 AM, sms wrote:



On 10/5/2013 6:32 AM, Clive George wrote:



On 05/10/2013 12:33, Andre Jute wrote:



The speed with which BUMM is launching new lamps
demonstrates that



they know there's a problem in their current ranges, most
obvious in



the most recent series of Cyo/Fly/Ixon which are simply
not as good as



the first series, leading to many disgruntled users.
Whether it also



demonstrates that BUMM knows how to fix problem remains
to be



discovered. Normally large, established companies in a
market-leading



position move cautiously for fear of upsetting a
profitable applekart.



You see this kind of ferment in the product line only for
two reasons:



they're in trouble (leadership, technical, lack of
innovation --



clearly not the problem here!) or they're reinventing
themselves,



often after a change in leadership.







Or that the underlying technology is moving quickly. Which
it is.







It's not just the underlying technology, it's a realization
of what



makes an optimal light and going as far as the law allows in
that regard.







It totally *is* the underlying technology. When you're limited
by



legislation to a certain voltage and current draw (as B&M is
marketing



to those subject to StVZO and using hub dynos, so they are) you
have to



make compromises, either in brightness or size of the beam
pattern based



on the efficacy of the LED(s) that you are using. As efficacy
improves,



you can keep the same brightness and spread the beam pattern
wider.







The IQ Cyo was introduced back in 2009 if not earlier; that's
eons when



discussing the state of the art in power LEDs.







I'm pretty sure that the product engineers at B&M aren't
*complete*



morons, as you seem to imply, and may actually ride bicycles
after dark.



Of course they're going to push the limits of what the law
allows in



their top of the line products, that statement is so
self-evident that



it's hardly worth verbalizing.







Though in a way it may simply be a late realization of the
fact that



they now can produce a light with a light source that's
efficient enough



that they don't need to compromise the beam like they've been
used to



doing. Someone at Bumm must have noticed other company's
products and



experienced an epiphany.







The only other company's products that come to mind would be
the Philips



Saferide... I can't think of a single other bicycle light with
a proper



on-road beam pattern that is better/brighter/wider than the
original



Cyo. I haven't seen *any* that have attempted to use a proper
on road



beam pattern that aren't StVZO lights (save for one possible
exception -



see below.) Sadly there have been very *few* companies pushing
the



limits of good bicycle lighting. There's some project floating
around



out there that started on Kickstarter "Barry Beams" but that's
a whole



controversial subject - the guy's idea shows promise but he's
yet to



post good clear plots of the beam pattern (I've only seen one
fuzzy one)



and he's pretty much ****ed off a whole bunch of guys at CPF by
being



way too cagey about what he's doing, although I can understand
that from



an IP standpoint. However I have a hard time getting excited
over the



project when I don't really know for sure if he's using a good
beam



pattern or not. (it's also apparently a 26650 only light and
he hasn't



yet responded to my question as to whether there will be a
means to



adapt it to run in one of the lower output modes off a hub
dyno, but I



do have to give him props for using a standard sized Li-Ion
rather than



a proprietary "battery pack.")







nate







--



replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.



http://members.cox.net/njnagel



Is this a private barney or can anyone join in? Have you two guys
been following the thread? Sepp Ruf told us several days ago that
the activity at BUMM is due to a) the relevant legislation
changing and b) their market position being under threat:



Sepp explained:

"It's a whole new ballgame after some legislators just killed
that infamous

dynamo requirement -- instead of modifying it like some
"bicycling

advocates/lobbyists/producers" would prefer. This winter season,
bumm's

domestic market will see oem and consumers considering new
lighting systems

for their bikes, so they better throw some "new, brighter,
better" products

out there. Plenty of cheaper alternatives from other companies
have appeared

while the more profitable market segment is under attack from
deep-pocketed

Philips..."





I actually missed that post, but I am not seeing the "plenty of
cheaper

alternatives" hitting the market at all, nor am I seeing their
position

as being "under attack" from Philips - it's damn hard to buy a
Philips

Saferide, at least here in the US. It's difficult to get a B&M
light

but not nearly as hard as a Philips. eBay really seems to be the
only

place to go.



nate

I know what you mean. My Cyo are off the net. But Sepp isn't talking
about the aftermarket, he's talking about OEM sales. The large
majority of bicycles sold in Europe come with a hub dynamo and front
and rear lamps, fitted by the manufacturers as standard equipment.
That's where BUMM would feel the pinch. AXA, Basta, the Jos brands
(Spanninga etc) also stocked by Peter White, Philips, and several
more all have contracts to supply OEM components to the big bicycle
manufacturers. The BUMM directors would pay themselves big bonuses if
they got the Royal Dutch Gazelle OEM business (currently in the iron
grip of the Dutch firm Jos). Conversely, they would have to lose only
one or two big OEM accounts for the loss to be painful. So this isn't
even remotely about selling you a lamp. It's about selling some bike
manufacturer a gazillion lamps to pass on to you whether you want
them or not.

Andre Jute


Now when you put it that way, it makes sense. It would take me a while
to think of a handful of bikes sold in the US that come standard with a
hub dyno, but it sounds like things are really different over there.

nate



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