Inertia maths help

On Mar 9, 9:15*am, Joseph S wrote:

Yes, that gear was big. I have to dig out my other shed from tons of
wet snow to find my cogs to get some lighter gears.

My understanding is that cadences have stayed about the same, maybe
come down a bit, but that gears have gone up, along with speed. But
that's at the top Elite level. I'm 40, and a hobbyist, so slightly
different circumstances...

Yes, you havn't got the equipment, coaches, masseur, psychoanalyst
etc. Enjoy it!


I'm looking for 11.3-11.4 200m this season. Most of the guys I'll race
against use a 92-95. My PB is 11.9 in a 92. I've only ever done about
10 200m's so I have plenty of potential for improvement in terms of
line, etc. I've worked that out the last few trip to a velodrome, so
now I think the *main hurdle is max speed.

Which may be higher with a lower gear if you train with that gear.
Any idea what your top speed was?


With very low resistance, my max is a tad over 200 best case. I have a
lot more strength than speed, so I'm looking to develop the ability to
apply force quickly. Have to be able to get a 92" up to 65-66 km/h or
so.

That's too long a gear, a 72" comes out at about 185rpm for that
speed, if you are hitting over 200rpm smoothly, you will able to power
at 185. Do it on your flywheel trainer then do it on a turbo to hold
the speed. Obviously you wont know for sure until you get your wheels
on the ground, but you should train your weaknesses and exploit your
strengths when racing, when the time comes. Your stregnths may of
course have changed, but really, even 85" is pushing it too hard no
matter who your opponents are.

Finding that not only is your accelleration quicker in a lower gear,
but also that your top speed is higher, and you can hold it is a real
eye opener, but you must train for speed.


Time to go dig out the cogs and cadence sensor!

Remember to use a turbo as well, so you are holding those high rev's
under power. If you work up a sweat you're doing it wrong, take a
break and have a beer. That's what's so good about sprint training,
20 min's of rolling doing nothing and then rev it up to the max for a
few seconds. Keep repeating when ready and turn faster for longer
each time. If your sprinting more often than 20 min's and getting to
200rpm, you didn't work hard enough last time, probably time to gear
up.

On Mar 10, 3:48*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:15*am, Joseph S wrote:



Yes, that gear was big. I have to dig out my other shed from tons of
wet snow to find my cogs to get some lighter gears.

My understanding is that cadences have stayed about the same, maybe
come down a bit, but that gears have gone up, along with speed. But
that's at the top Elite level. I'm 40, and a hobbyist, so slightly
different circumstances...

Yes, you havn't got the equipment, coaches, masseur, psychoanalyst
etc. *Enjoy it!



I'm looking for 11.3-11.4 200m this season. Most of the guys I'll race
against use a 92-95. My PB is 11.9 in a 92. I've only ever done about
10 200m's so I have plenty of potential for improvement in terms of
line, etc. I've worked that out the last few trip to a velodrome, so
now I think the *main hurdle is max speed.

Which may be higher with a lower gear if you train with that gear.
Any idea what your top speed was?



With very low resistance, my max is a tad over 200 best case. I have a
lot more strength than speed, so I'm looking to develop the ability to
apply force quickly. Have to be able to get a 92" up to 65-66 km/h or
so.

That's too long a gear, a 72" comes out at about 185rpm for that
speed, if you are hitting over 200rpm smoothly, you will able to power
at 185. *Do it on your flywheel trainer then do it on a turbo to hold
the speed. *Obviously you wont know for sure until you get your wheels
on the ground, but you should train your weaknesses and exploit your
strengths when racing, when the time comes. *Your stregnths may of
course have changed, but really, even 85" is pushing it too hard no
matter who your opponents are.

Finding that not only is your accelleration quicker in a lower gear,
but also that your top speed is higher, and you can hold it is a real
eye opener, but you must train for speed.



Time to go dig out the cogs and cadence sensor!

Remember to use a turbo as well, so you are holding those high rev's
under power. *If you work up a sweat you're doing it wrong, take a
break and have a beer. *That's what's so good about sprint training,
20 min's of rolling doing nothing and then rev it up to the max for a
few seconds. *Keep repeating when ready and turn faster for longer
each time. *If your sprinting more often than 20 min's and getting to
200rpm, you didn't work hard enough last time, probably time to gear
up.

Excellent advice!

On my PB 11.9 max speed was 63 km/h.

I did 6 sprints today on the Kurt using 79" which was too big. I've
got to dig out my 18T so I can get that down to 70". And work my way
up from there. Max rpm today was only 140, so I was still churning
butter.

I did 10 minutes of chair sitting between each sprint.

I've got strength (at least for the level I'm up against), so you're
right, I really need to work speed. Ability to apply force quickly. As
I develop that, I'll be able to bring my strength to bear on going
fast. So light gears for me.

On Mar 10, 4:50*pm, Joseph S wrote:
On Mar 10, 3:48*pm, thirty-six wrote:



On Mar 9, 9:15*am, Joseph S wrote:

Yes, that gear was big. I have to dig out my other shed from tons of
wet snow to find my cogs to get some lighter gears.

My understanding is that cadences have stayed about the same, maybe
come down a bit, but that gears have gone up, along with speed. But
that's at the top Elite level. I'm 40, and a hobbyist, so slightly
different circumstances...

Yes, you havn't got the equipment, coaches, masseur, psychoanalyst
etc. *Enjoy it!

I'm looking for 11.3-11.4 200m this season. Most of the guys I'll race
against use a 92-95. My PB is 11.9 in a 92. I've only ever done about
10 200m's so I have plenty of potential for improvement in terms of
line, etc. I've worked that out the last few trip to a velodrome, so
now I think the *main hurdle is max speed.

Which may be higher with a lower gear if you train with that gear.
Any idea what your top speed was?

With very low resistance, my max is a tad over 200 best case. I have a
lot more strength than speed, so I'm looking to develop the ability to
apply force quickly. Have to be able to get a 92" up to 65-66 km/h or
so.

That's too long a gear, a 72" comes out at about 185rpm for that
speed, if you are hitting over 200rpm smoothly, you will able to power
at 185. *Do it on your flywheel trainer then do it on a turbo to hold
the speed. *Obviously you wont know for sure until you get your wheels
on the ground, but you should train your weaknesses and exploit your
strengths when racing, when the time comes. *Your stregnths may of
course have changed, but really, even 85" is pushing it too hard no
matter who your opponents are.

Finding that not only is your accelleration quicker in a lower gear,
but also that your top speed is higher, and you can hold it is a real
eye opener, but you must train for speed.

Time to go dig out the cogs and cadence sensor!

Remember to use a turbo as well, so you are holding those high rev's
under power. *If you work up a sweat you're doing it wrong, take a
break and have a beer. *That's what's so good about sprint training,
20 min's of rolling doing nothing and then rev it up to the max for a
few seconds. *Keep repeating when ready and turn faster for longer
each time. *If your sprinting more often than 20 min's and getting to
200rpm, you didn't work hard enough last time, probably time to gear
up.

Excellent advice!

On my PB 11.9 max speed was 63 km/h.

I did 6 sprints today

Which is about all you need to do, but you must progress during the
session, that progression may be smoothness, ultimate speed or
acceleration time. Not one item to deteriorate while another
benefits.

on the Kurt using 79" which was too big. I've
got to dig out my 18T so I can get that down to 70". And work my way
up from there. Max rpm today was only 140, so I was still churning
butter.

I did 10 minutes of chair sitting between each sprint.

You mean gently turning the pedals? That seems suspiciously short for
a complete recovery, you may get a better idea when you gear down and
do some soft accellerations. If it isn't smooth you are not warmed
up, need more basic cycle training (turning circles) or you havn't
recovered yet.

I've got strength (at least for the level I'm up against), so you're
right, I really need to work speed. Ability to apply force quickly. As
I develop that, I'll be able to bring my strength to bear on going
fast. So light gears for me.

Your strength will be apparent when breaking off and on your top
speed, but most people havn't trained to accelerate quickly enough for
the track. Much easier using a lower gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgyq8Zkp10Y

Just to remind you what can be done. ISTR someone spinning at 270ish
but can't remember. Of course this is no load riding. I peaked at
230rpm when sprint training in a middle gear. I just kept pushing it
until I got it smooth. Took in total six weeks of about two hours on
the road every other day. Probably 4 to 6 all out sprints with what I
call soft sprinting in between. Soft sprinting is no additonal pedal
pressure, just to clear the muscles of toxins, encourage muscle
balance and develop the nerve response, taken to 90% speed or more.

I did 6 sprints today

Which is about all you need to do, but you must progress during the
session, that progression may be smoothness, ultimate speed or
acceleration time. *Not one item to deteriorate while another
benefits.

I should have stopped at 5, as the last one wasn't as good.



I did 10 minutes of chair sitting between each sprint.

You mean gently turning the pedals? *That seems suspiciously short for
a complete recovery, you may get a better idea when you gear down and
do some soft accellerations. *If it isn't smooth you are not warmed
up, need more basic cycle training (turning circles) or you havn't
recovered yet.

Nope. About 2 minutes of soft pedaling, and then 10 sitting in a chair
next to my bike with my feet up on the top tube.

Previous attempts with very little resistance have maxed out at ~200
rpm. With resistance around 159.

These last sprints were done standing, and max was 145, not
particularly smooth...




I've got strength (at least for the level I'm up against), so you're
right, I really need to work speed. Ability to apply force quickly. As
I develop that, I'll be able to bring my strength to bear on going
fast. So light gears for me.

Your strength will be apparent when breaking off and on your top
speed, but most people havn't trained to accelerate quickly enough for
the track. *Much easier using a lower gear.

In the first 100m of a start, I'm pretty good, and that is undoubtedly
from strength. A recent velodrome trip with a whole bunch of top
(road) juniors, and despite me at the time being 15kg overweight, none
were as fast. After 100m, it started to even out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgyq8Zkp10Y

Just to remind you what can be done. *ISTR someone spinning at 270ish
but can't remember. *Of course this is no load riding. *I peaked at
230rpm when sprint training in a middle gear. *I just kept pushing it
until I got it smooth. *Took in total six weeks of about two hours on
the road every other day. *Probably 4 to 6 all out sprints with what I
call soft sprinting in between. *Soft sprinting is no additonal pedal
pressure, just to clear the muscles of toxins, encourage muscle
balance and develop the nerve response, taken to 90% speed or more.

How long were these all out sprints?

I'm stuck on the trainer indoor for at least another 6 weeks. The
roads are at time rideable, but not sprintable.

On Mar 11, 9:19*am, Joseph S wrote:
I did 6 sprints today

Which is about all you need to do, but you must progress during the
session, that progression may be smoothness, ultimate speed or
acceleration time. *Not one item to deteriorate while another
benefits.

I should have stopped at 5, as the last one wasn't as good.

I did 10 minutes of chair sitting between each sprint.

You mean gently turning the pedals? *That seems suspiciously short for
a complete recovery, you may get a better idea when you gear down and
do some soft accellerations. *If it isn't smooth you are not warmed
up, need more basic cycle training (turning circles) or you havn't
recovered yet.

Nope. About 2 minutes of soft pedaling, and then 10 sitting in a chair
next to my bike with my feet up on the top tube.

Previous attempts with very little resistance have maxed out at ~200
rpm. With resistance around 159.

These last sprints were done standing, and max was 145, not
particularly smooth...

You should develop sitting and smooth speed before standing and
smooth.



I've got strength (at least for the level I'm up against), so you're
right, I really need to work speed. Ability to apply force quickly. As
I develop that, I'll be able to bring my strength to bear on going
fast. So light gears for me.

Your strength will be apparent when breaking off and on your top
speed, but most people havn't trained to accelerate quickly enough for
the track. *Much easier using a lower gear.

In the first 100m of a start, I'm pretty good, and that is undoubtedly
from strength. A recent velodrome trip with a whole bunch of top
(road) juniors, and despite me at the time being 15kg overweight, none
were as fast. After 100m, it started to even out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgyq8Zkp10Y

Just to remind you what can be done. *ISTR someone spinning at 270ish
but can't remember. *Of course this is no load riding. *I peaked at
230rpm when sprint training in a middle gear. *I just kept pushing it
until I got it smooth. *Took in total six weeks of about two hours on
the road every other day. *Probably 4 to 6 all out sprints with what I
call soft sprinting in between. *Soft sprinting is no additonal pedal
pressure, just to clear the muscles of toxins, encourage muscle
balance and develop the nerve response, taken to 90% speed or more.

How long were these all out sprints?

It's been a while now but in early training, most were short because
of imbalance and it was a case of just getting a peak speed smoothly.
With progression of course the acceleration phase became shorter and I
could hold speed I think up to twenty seconds at around 180 to
210rpm.

I'm stuck on the trainer indoor for at least another 6 weeks. The
roads are at time rideable, but not sprintable.

I don't know how fast you can develop indoor, but I guess a couple of
weeks on the road would be sufficient if you get the indoor riding
right. Then there's learning the track itself as well as the rules
and any specific local custom.

If you dont want to lose speed in the bends use tubulars, they stand
up better with the extra loading incurred because of the bend. High
pressures don't cut the mustard, whatever the figures say.

On Mar 11, 2:41*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Mar 11, 9:19*am, Joseph S wrote:





I did 6 sprints today

Which is about all you need to do, but you must progress during the
session, that progression may be smoothness, ultimate speed or
acceleration time. *Not one item to deteriorate while another
benefits.

I should have stopped at 5, as the last one wasn't as good.

I did 10 minutes of chair sitting between each sprint.

You mean gently turning the pedals? *That seems suspiciously short for
a complete recovery, you may get a better idea when you gear down and
do some soft accellerations. *If it isn't smooth you are not warmed
up, need more basic cycle training (turning circles) or you havn't
recovered yet.

Nope. About 2 minutes of soft pedaling, and then 10 sitting in a chair
next to my bike with my feet up on the top tube.

Previous attempts with very little resistance have maxed out at ~200
rpm. With resistance around 159.

These last sprints were done standing, and max was 145, not
particularly smooth...

You should develop sitting and smooth speed before standing and
smooth.



Yes, I will do that. Just now did a mini-session with no resistance.
I've never done that before. I managed 237 rpm. Hard to say how smooth
or un-smooth... I didn't crash! I then did one with resistance (72"
gear) and wasn't able to note the max. But it felt pretty good.

I will stick to trying to get nice and smooth and increasing the max,
and maybe by then I'll be able to go outside.

On the track, I'm focusing just on 200m. I'll do the sprints of
course, but with experience playing such a big role, I don't have
specific goals there. I've been schooled big time each of my 3
competition sprints. I learned a lot, but there is a lot more to
learn. And of course the wherewithal to apply that learning when it
counts!

I ride Continental Steher tubulars. Nice and wide suits my 215 lbs
well. I'm going to the track for 3 days March 28. I will resist the
temptation to go for PB, and rather focus on rpm and smooth approach.

On Mar 11, 8:30*pm, Joseph S wrote:
On Mar 11, 2:41*pm, thirty-six wrote:



On Mar 11, 9:19*am, Joseph S wrote:

I did 6 sprints today

Which is about all you need to do, but you must progress during the
session, that progression may be smoothness, ultimate speed or
acceleration time. *Not one item to deteriorate while another
benefits.

I should have stopped at 5, as the last one wasn't as good.

I did 10 minutes of chair sitting between each sprint.

You mean gently turning the pedals? *That seems suspiciously short for
a complete recovery, you may get a better idea when you gear down and
do some soft accellerations. *If it isn't smooth you are not warmed
up, need more basic cycle training (turning circles) or you havn't
recovered yet.

Nope. About 2 minutes of soft pedaling, and then 10 sitting in a chair
next to my bike with my feet up on the top tube.

Previous attempts with very little resistance have maxed out at ~200
rpm. With resistance around 159.

These last sprints were done standing, and max was 145, not
particularly smooth...

You should develop sitting and smooth speed before standing and
smooth.

Yes, I will do that. Just now did a mini-session with no resistance.
I've never done that before. I managed 237 rpm. Hard to say how smooth
or un-smooth... I didn't crash! I then did one with resistance (72"
gear) and wasn't able to note the max. But it felt pretty good.

I will stick to trying to get nice and smooth and increasing the max,
and maybe by then I'll be able to go outside.

On the track, I'm focusing just on 200m. I'll do the sprints of
course, but with experience playing such a big role, I don't have
specific goals there. I've been schooled big time each of my 3
competition sprints. I learned a lot, but there is a lot more to
learn. And of course the wherewithal to apply that learning when it
counts!

I ride Continental Steher tubulars. Nice and wide suits my 215 lbs

3-ply construction though, is the track in poor condition to warrant
them? I've used 2-ply without sidewall rubber (latex dressing) off-
road over rocks and gravel, there really has to be a real reason to go
to 3-ply when racing.

Don't do yourself a disservice, I'm sure the Steher will noticably
slow you, find some cold constructed 2 ply tyres with a suitable thin
tread for your track and stick them with Mastik1. You may want a
larger carcass than you are using, especially if the track does not
present the smoothest of rides. Your wheels (as a sprinter) should
also be stiffer than you would use outside the track, again because of
the extra loading in the bends.

well. I'm going to the track for 3 days March 28. I will resist the
temptation to go for PB, and rather focus on rpm and smooth approach.

Not far away, just see if you can translate what you've learnt and
developed in training and if everything feels good, go for it. Don't
forget that next smaller sprocket, just in case you are on a flyer and
emember to keep your tyres stuck to the track :-) .