Motorbike Filtering

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:16:10 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:46:27 +0000, Nick Finnigan
said in :

[ob. filtering]

It is not defined, just as 'U-turn' is not defined.

Not defined, perhaps, but certainly used:

211: It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists,
especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of
junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through
traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction;
they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right
across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for
cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are
crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing
direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots
carefully.

Other rules also allude to the practice, for example:

72: On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out
for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road.
Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or
motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or
slowing down to turn left.

There is also no rule or legislation forbidding it.

Guy


Many thanks for repeating what OG said four hours ago - good to see
that you are on the ball as ever - or have you started on the pop a
little earlier than usual?

The term being used is not the same as it being endorsed.

The Highway Code also says "look well ahead for obstructions in the
road, such as drains, pot-holes" - I guess you will tell us that the
HC endorses pot-holes etc.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:00:55 -0800 (PST), Marz
wrote:


I've had so many drivers pull to the left blocking me from filtering
forward that I just don't care any more. Fine, you more to the left
and I'll overtake to the right,

Fine, it's what you should do. I've moved over to make room for you.

I'm still going to be ahead of you at the lights.

And this concerns me how ? I'm turning left.

Derek

judith wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:46:27 +0000, Nick Finnigan
wrote:

judith wrote:
Perhaps you can tell us where filtering is defined for cyclists -
what does "filtering" actually mean - where is it defined so?
It is not defined, just as 'U-turn' is not defined.


I think you will find that are wrong here - given that there is a road

I won't

sign which prohibits it, then it is a pretty fair bet that there will
be a legal definition of what it means somewhere in the RTA and
related acts.

There isn't. Lots of signs are undefined.

Is it undertaking, or is it overtaking - or perhaps a combination of
both:
There is no definition of 'undertaking' or 'overtaking' either.


Oh - really - so you think again that such terms are not defined
within the meaning of the RTA and other relevant legislation.

There is no relevant legislation for undertaking.

undertake on left - bugger, the next vehicle is too far over to the
left - so pass between rear of one vehicle and the front of another -
overtake the next vehicle on right - then pass between next pair of
vehicles back to the left.

Is that filtering?
If you want it to be - it can be used to let smaller objects past where
larger ones can not.


So what is *your* definition of filtering as applied to cyclists?

I have none, there is no need for one.

If not - perhaps you can define what it is - and then show where the
Highway Code endorses same.
The Highway Code is incapable of writing, on the back or anywhere else.

Good- we agree then - the Highway Code does *not* endorse filtering.

'Agree' is not defined.

Marz wrote:

I always despair when I see cyclists waiting in line with cars as it
sort of defeats (for me) the whole point of commuting to work on a
bike. To avoid getting stuck in traffic.


What do you do on urban dual carriageways with traffic lights (or any road
wide enough for two lanes of traffic)? If you filter to the front and there
is not an advanced stop line for cyclists then you are stuck between two
lanes of traffic which will quickly become two lanes of moving traffic when
the lights change. It is not desirable to be between moving traffic streams
on a bicycle. Do you just merge back into the traffic when it starts moving?

I don't get much practice at filtering as where I am it is either too
hazardous or the queue is short enough that I might as well join the back of
it.

On Feb 10, 2:39*pm, Derek Geldard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:00:55 -0800 (PST), Marz

wrote:
I've had so many drivers pull to the left blocking me from filtering
forward that I just don't care any more. Fine, you more to the left
and I'll overtake to the right,

Fine, it's what you should do. I've moved over to make room for you.

I'm still going to be ahead of you at the lights.

And this concerns me how ? *I'm turning left.

Derek

While I've seen plenty of cars pull to the left and block me from
filtering, I've yet to see one do so for the purposes of turning left.
When I'm in traffic in my car I've never seen another driver place
themselves 4" from the kerb to then turn left, hardly an optimum
position. This action of moving closer to the kerb than necessary is
reserved for blocking filtering cyclists.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:53:21 -0000, "OG"
wrote:

Moving to the left /to block the cyclist/ is an illegal manoeuvre anyway.
(RTA 1988 S3)

Thanks for letting me know that I'm breaking the law. I'll continue
to offend on every occasion as I see fit as a motorist but I'll also
continue to queue as a cyclist rather than force my way through to the
front of stationary traffic.


--

"Adam Lea" wrote in message
...
Marz wrote:

I always despair when I see cyclists waiting in line with cars as it
sort of defeats (for me) the whole point of commuting to work on a
bike. To avoid getting stuck in traffic.


What do you do on urban dual carriageways with traffic lights (or any road
wide enough for two lanes of traffic)? If you filter to the front and
there is not an advanced stop line for cyclists then you are stuck between
two lanes of traffic which will quickly become two lanes of moving traffic
when the lights change. It is not desirable to be between moving traffic
streams on a bicycle. Do you just merge back into the traffic when it
starts moving?

If I'm at the front, appropriate positioning to ensure I'm first off. DIY
ASL, something I learned while riding as a teenager in London before the
practice was formalised. If it starts moving before I make it to the front,
I just merge in - it's easy enough.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:18:13 -0800 (PST), Marz
wrote:

On Feb 10, 12:49=A0pm, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk
wrote:
JNugent considered Tue, 10 Feb 2009
17:28:23 +0000 the perfect time to write:



Marz wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:11 am, Derek Geldard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:18:58 -0000, "OG"
wrote:

By pulling over to the left he creates more room for traffic
overtaking properly on his right.
Derek
I've already reminded him/them of that.
So you propose obstructing a cyclist to make it easier for another
hypothetical driver to perform a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre.
Waiting at traffic lights in my lane is part of my manouver to make a
permitted left turn, and the correct place for overtaking traffic is
the lane to my right which might well be empty.

However, the rule of the road is keep to the left, so any cyclist
trying to sneak through between me and the kurb can shove his bobble
hat where the sun don't shine AFAIAC.

Derek

I've had so many drivers pull to the left blocking me from filtering
forward that I just don't care any more. Fine, you more to the left
and I'll overtake to the right, I'm still going to be ahead of you at
the lights

...which is a *correct* response.

Well done!

Until the time when the car pulls to the left, waits for you to get
alongside the rear wing, and then pulls a U turn.
And since so few of them have discovered the stalk under the steering
wheel that operates the turn indicators, and regard the mirror as
something for personal grooming, you've almost certainly got
bugger-all chance of them even knowing you are there, much less
warning you that they are about to make an attempt on your life.

The "correct" procedure is for everyone to maintain their line,
neither deliberately blocking (driving without reasonable
consideration), or taking stupid risks to pass (driving without due
care).

I always despair when I see cyclists waiting in line with cars as it
sort of defeats (for me) the whole point of commuting to work on a
bike. To avoid getting stuck in traffic.

In general I've found that a driver who has pulled to the left to
block me has seen me and the silent messaging I'm getting is,' I've
passed you once and I really don't want to have to pass you again
after the lights have changed, so stay there,' to which I respond with
'tough titty' by moving to the front of the queue.

And, no doubt, going through a red light as most of you *******s do.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:47:22 -0800 (PST), Marz
wrote:

On Feb 10, 2:39=A0pm, Derek Geldard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:00:55 -0800 (PST), Marz

wrote:
I've had so many drivers pull to the left blocking me from filtering
forward that I just don't care any more. Fine, you more to the left
and I'll overtake to the right,

Fine, it's what you should do. I've moved over to make room for you.

I'm still going to be ahead of you at the lights.

And this concerns me how ? =A0I'm turning left.

Derek

While I've seen plenty of cars pull to the left and block me from
filtering, I've yet to see one do so for the purposes of turning left.
When I'm in traffic in my car I've never seen another driver place
themselves 4" from the kerb to then turn left, hardly an optimum
position. This action of moving closer to the kerb than necessary is
reserved for blocking filtering cyclists.

Actually, it's to allow motorcycles to filter on the right. At least
motorcycles obey red lights.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:39:22 +0000, Mike said in
:

Thanks for letting me know that I'm breaking the law. I'll continue
to offend on every occasion as I see fit as a motorist but I'll also
continue to queue as a cyclist rather than force my way through to the
front of stationary traffic.

Force? You have to /force/ your way? Odd. I ride most days in
London, I just trundle up to the front (and usually stay there as
the motor traffic is very often essentially stationary between
junctions).

Guy
--
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