Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality

In article k.net,
says...
First I want to thank everyone for your comments.

I have one more question.

If I show up and the officer is not there, can I assume that the charges
will be dismissed.

I don't know; it probably depends on the judge.

If the officer does show up and I get cold feet, can I change my plea to
"Guilty" to the charge and just pay the fine?

Yes.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:27:50 GMT, JoeD wrote:

If I show up and the officer is not there, can I assume that the charges
will be dismissed.

No. The judge will often reschedule and give the officer another chance to
show.

Don donwiss at panix.com.

"Ken [NY)" wrote:

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 05:19:04 GMT, (Hi, I'm TV's Oscar
The Grouch) wrote:

I'd throw that ticket right in the trash.

Why didn't they ticket the SUV?

1. Perhaps the officer had his eye on the bike rider who was in close
proximity, and therefore missed the SUV driver's violation?

or

2. He did see both violations and grabbed the one that was easiest to
grab. After all, if he had gotten the SUV driver, wouldn't that driver
be able to say, "Why didn't you ticket the bike rider?"

As to the specific violation you were ticketed for:
Section 1232. Riding on bicycles.
(a) A person propelling a bicycle shall not ride other than upon or
astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto, nor shall he
ride with his feet removed from the pedals.

I too use clipless pedals and sometimes have a difficult time
getting my shoes snapped into the pedals for a few feet. Is that maybe
what the officer saw?

Some more NYS bike violations info:

COMMON QUESTIONS ABOUT BICYCLE
AND PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC LAWS

Which traffic laws apply to bicyclists?

* The same laws that apply to other drivers, with some obvious
exceptions and special rules, apply to cyclists. Most importantly,
bicyclists must obey, and are also protected by, the rules of the road
(Sec. 1231).
* Bicyclists must obey all traffic lights and signs, and must
signal for turns whether driving on a roadway, a bike lane or bike
path. Likewise, motorists must obey the rules of the road with respect
to bicyclists, including yielding the right-of-way when the law
requires it, just as they would to another vehicle.
* Bicyclists who violate the law are subject to traffic tickets.
Parents can be held responsible for violations by their minor children
(Sec. 1230).
http://www.dot.state.ny.us/pubtrans/share.html#1231


Lets not forget the days when Koch had cops giving tickets for
cyclists riding without a bell on the handelbars!

JoeD wrote:

Hi Again,

For those of you that say just pay the fine. I would have paid it if it
in line with my offense. But they want $100, which I was surprised to
learn was more the fines for a driver who speed upto 35 miles above the
limit.

But whether I am innocent or guilty of a minor or major infracture is
not the issue that I am addressing here.

What I am asking is, if the ticket has a vague violation description as
described below conflicts with what the officer will accuse me of doing,
will a "NYC" traffic judge dismiss the charge?
I was always under the impression that if a traffic ticket (auto or
bicycle) did not proper identify the violation or was improperly written
that it would be dismissed.

Again thanks for any constructive opinions.

When you go to court, have a picture with you of your bike, clearly
showing the clips and straps.

Also NEVER give your drivers license as any infractions you are
guilty of while on a bike go on your record.

Get a NY State "non-driver" ID and carry THAT with you when
you ride.

If I show up and the officer is not there, can I assume that the
charges will be dismissed.

I don't know; it probably depends on the judge.


This is where it is important to be dressed presentably and to be calm,
and not confrontational. All it takes is a few times in traffic court
watching how most people behave to know what is going to make the judge
be sympathetic to you. Most people come off as being the world's
stupidest moron with the world's biggest attitude. If the judge comes
away from it feeling like you are a normal person like him/her you will
do alright. If you seem to be a typical moron/a-hole, forget it.

Remember you are not arguing in front of the Supreme Court. Being all
technical and smarty-pants probably isn't going to help.

Good luck! (And next time don't stop when they try to ticket you!)

Joseph

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:10:44 GMT, slim wrote:

Also NEVER give your drivers license as any infractions you are
guilty of while on a bike go on your record.

NOT true.

Don donwiss at panix.com.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:26:31 GMT, JoeD wrote:

I was always under the impression that if a traffic ticket (auto or
bicycle) did not proper identify the violation or was improperly written
that it would be dismissed.

As a former police officer, you are correct and when you cross
examine the officer, you should ask what exactly you did that violated
that section. But remember, the law is not an exact science and judges
are not perfect. Yesterday, a guy who freely admitted to killing his
neighbor, cutting up the body into small chunks, and throwing it into
a body of water to conceal it, claimed self defense... and won. Then
there is OJ Simpson, reportedly still searching for the real
killers...on golf courses and in fancy restaurants. :-)

Good luck,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"I regret to say that we of the FBI are
powerless to act in cases of oral-genital
intimacy, unless it has in some way
obstructed interstate commerce."
-- J. Edgar Hoover

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:27:50 GMT, JoeD wrote:

First I want to thank everyone for your comments.

I have one more question.

If I show up and the officer is not there, can I assume that the charges
will be dismissed.

No, it can be postponed to a later date.

If the officer does show up and I get cold feet, can I change my plea to
"Guilty" to the charge and just pay the fine?

That's two questions, but we are having a sale today, two for
one.
Happened all the time when I was a cop. The violator would see
me and change his plea to guilty. You can change your plea at any time
before trial and even during trial in NY.

Cordially,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"I regret to say that we of the FBI are
powerless to act in cases of oral-genital
intimacy, unless it has in some way
obstructed interstate commerce."
-- J. Edgar Hoover

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:11:37 GMT, Joseph Santaniello
wrote:


If I show up and the officer is not there, can I assume that the
charges will be dismissed.

I don't know; it probably depends on the judge.


This is where it is important to be dressed presentably and to be calm,
and not confrontational. All it takes is a few times in traffic court
watching how most people behave to know what is going to make the judge
be sympathetic to you. Most people come off as being the world's
stupidest moron with the world's biggest attitude. If the judge comes
away from it feeling like you are a normal person like him/her you will
do alright. If you seem to be a typical moron/a-hole, forget it.

Remember you are not arguing in front of the Supreme Court. Being all
technical and smarty-pants probably isn't going to help.

Good luck! (And next time don't stop when they try to ticket you!)

Joseph

Good advice! I remember once when we locked up a whole gang of
bikers (The old Aliens MC from Long Island) and at trial in court,
most of us were unable to pick out the violators. The men had gotten
haircuts and wore suits while the biker chicks wore conservative
dresses and heels. For the most part, they acted very polite and it
was difficult to distinguish them from their lawyers. I picked out one
of them because he had a whiney voice I recalled. But most walked.

Cheers,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"I regret to say that we of the FBI are
powerless to act in cases of oral-genital
intimacy, unless it has in some way
obstructed interstate commerce."
-- J. Edgar Hoover

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

Again thanks.

By the way, when I got the ticket I remained calm and a number of times
I even told him that I understand that "he is just doing his job but". I
am hoping that if he does show up, he will not make it difficult for me
so that I can beat this ticket.
I guess it is worth a try.

By All,

Joe

JoeD wrote:

Hi,

I have been riding around NYC off and on for 30 years. After 9/11, I
decided to minimize the use of my car and gas consumption, I began
commuting to work by bike again averaging over 4000 miles a year. I
consider myself a reasonble and safe rider. I wear a a helmet and have
blinking lights in the front and back.
I got my first ticket recently. Although I have never fought a ticket
before and I want to fight this one.

The ticket describes the infraction as " improper riding of bicycle"
in violation of section 1232 sub A.

Section 1232. Riding on bicycles.
(a) A person propelling a bicycle shall not ride other than upon or
astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto, nor shall he
ride with his feet removed from the pedals.

I ride an older well maintained road bike with toe clips so the above
violation I am being accused of does not describe the infraction at all.
If the police officer shows up, can I assume that since he selected
the wrong violation that I would win on a technicality?

The ironic thing was that a SUV ran a red light right in front of me
and this police officer in his squad car while we were both waiting
for my light to turn green, and he gives me a ticket.

Any constructive comments to fight this ticket are welcomed.

Regards

Joe