Eyc headlight problem

On 1/4/21 1:38 am, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 1:42:58 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 31/3/21 3:17 pm, jbeattie wrote:

Every time I read your story of SP PD8 and Luxos B giving
inadequate light for night riding, I remember how well my SP PV-8
and B&M IQTec Premium lights the road beautifully in all weather
and conditions, and how I scoffed at the people I rode with at
night with their pitiful battery lights with round beam that didn't
light the road well at all. Even worse were the people with bright
lights on their helmet, who blinded everyone around them and rarely
aimed at the road ahead.

We definitely agree on helmet lights. On a rainy night, riding
through the West Hills, the Luxos B is a be-seen light. Maybe your
IQTec is more magical.


Peter White's pictures may be magically illuminating.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.php

Indeed, the Luxos B doesn't appear to be anywhere near as bright as the
B&M IQ Premium.

--
JS

On 1/4/21 4:01 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/31/2021 12:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:


People prefer brighter, battery powered lights.

People "prefer" what they are told to buy, which is what's on top of the
counter when they wander into a bike shop. If shops had dyno systems
available and explained their advantages, more Portlanders would buy them.

I think they are driven by price more than anything. Battery lights can
be pretty cheap, even if the beam shape is crap and they get attached to
handlebars with rubber bands. No wires. No drag, even if good hub
dynamos have so little drag you don't notice. Easy to remove for a
weekend fast ride or race, etc. They're more convenient - even if they
go flat when you need them most.

--
JS

On 3/31/2021 8:21 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:

Sorry to go on and on, but hopefully Frank now understands the issue better.

This sort of rhetoric might have been part of why you could not win
reelection in Appleville.

Others have long grasped the issues about 12 volt systems:
In 2001, the 12V hub, literally weighed down by incandescent lamp physics in
legal requirements to provide a rather high voltage already at low speeds,
would have yielded 100 (source) halogen lumens from a geometrically
complicated filament. But 90 lm could already be tweaked by serially
running two 6V bulbs. Today, either a 2001 or a 2021 6V hub can yield more
than 300 lm (net output) from the optically preferential LED, while a cheap
$20 LED dyno lamp such as the Herrmans H-Black MR4 produces 120 lm, and a
beam quality unheard of even in 2011.
https://fahrradbeleuchtung-info.de/helligkeitsmessung-von-fahrradlampen

I think a lot of skepticism of dyno systems is due to "safety
inflation." Whatever was good enough last year _must_ be dangerous this
year, because there's something that claims to be "better." It applies
to riding without protective headgear, sliding our feet into toe clips,
removing our hands from the brake levers to shift gears, riding in
daylight with no lights, riding our bikes on roads that don't have walls
between cars and bikes, and much more. It amounts to retroactively
imagining past dangers we were never aware of.

But as with the above examples, "better" is often imaginary or
completely mistaken. In particular, a harsh spot of bright light on a
roadway is NOT better than a well engineered beam that gives even
illumination; and blinding oncoming road users is NOT better than a
properly cut off beam.

A further problem should be an embarrassment to an electrical engineer.
Scharf still fixates on Watts, as if they are the only measurement of
quality. But the lumen per watt output of modern LEDs means 3 Watts
today produces more light than systems he touted ten years ago. Even
more important, advances in optic design mean a nominal 3 Watt headlight
give much better practical illumination of the road than a 10 or 15 Watt
system of the 1990s.

Most people look at a glaring light and think "Oooh, that's bright!
That's what I want!" When its hot spot blinds them so they can't see
with it, they shop for something even more glaring. They don't know that
there's actually something to learn.

--
- Frank Krygowski

James wrote:

Peter White's pictures may be magically illuminating.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.php

Indeed, the Luxos B doesn't appear to be anywhere near as bright as the
B&M IQ Premium.

Given the same luminous flux and strictly unintelligent camera, the darker
the photo looks, the better the beam is. Except on busy and wet roads like
Portland. I would never discard a dim or water-ingressed Luxos, it's usable
for mods, even for low & high beam builds legal almost anywhere on this planet.

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 1:23:44 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 1/4/21 4:01 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/31/2021 12:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:


People prefer brighter, battery powered lights.

People "prefer" what they are told to buy, which is what's on top of the
counter when they wander into a bike shop. If shops had dyno systems
available and explained their advantages, more Portlanders would buy them.
I think they are driven by price more than anything. Battery lights can
be pretty cheap, even if the beam shape is crap and they get attached to
handlebars with rubber bands. No wires. No drag, even if good hub
dynamos have so little drag you don't notice. Easy to remove for a
weekend fast ride or race, etc. They're more convenient - even if they
go flat when you need them most.

Portland has plenty of shops with dyno hubs. https://www.universalcycles.com/comp...er%20Precision
https://www.joe-bike.com/product-lis...s-lights-1263/ https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...namo-front-hub

Just a smattering. I got my SP PD-8 on sale at Western for $98 or something like that. I got my light at Clever https://www.clevercycles.com/accesso...240&max=%24350 They also have dyno hubs.

Plenty of supply, just not much demand. Before the plague -- and daylight savings time -- there were reliably one or two other dyno equipped bikes in the racks out of maybe 40 bikes or more.

Most people who commute don't spend that much time riding in the dark and aren't willing to make the effort to get a dyno, although that demographic would be best served since most riding is in facilities and on streets. For a good set-up, its not cheap -- particularly for those who don't build their own wheels. You can get a sale table L&M for $49 and any number of blazing Chi-lights for sub $100.

-- Jay Beattie.

Am 01.04.2021 um 18:03 schrieb jbeattie:

Most people who commute don't spend that much time riding in the dark
and aren't willing to make the effort to get a dyno, although that
demographic would be best served since most riding is in facilities
and on streets.

Yes, you southerners (the 49th latitude is some 50 miles south of here)
don't have winters where the sun goes down before the kids come home
from school.
Round here, in southern Germany, there are three months where you might
be able to chose whether you prefer a dark morning commute or a dark
evening commute (and take 2 weeks of vacation after christmas if you
wish to see the sun at all).

On 3/31/2021 6:49 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:


snip

I don't know whatever happened to the plans for 12V hub dynamos. There
are 12V bottle dynamos, but for whatever reason 12V hub dynamos never
were marketed
http://www.velovision.com/ftp-admin/VVArchive/www.velovisionmag.co.uk/showStory37a0.html?storynum=56.



Come on now, Steven, dust off your EE textbooks. A typical hub dynamo
transmits 3 Watts of power over a distance of maybe 3 feet. If you wanted
to double, triple or even transmit 10 times as much power, you don’t need
to change the voltage, just change the internal design of the dynamo. The
obvious solution would be a 3 phase AC generator, with a rectifier/buck
converter inside that puts out a constant 6 V with a much higher current
limit.

Now, inside the dynamo, there may be arguments to be made for a higher
internal voltage before the regulator, but a 6V output should be good up to
the point where nobody would buy one because it would sap too much energy
from the rider.

A hybrid design would be ideal. Regenerative braking on downhill to
charge the battery but running on the battery alone when going uphill.

With speed sensors, level sensors, and torque sensors, a hybrid bicycle
light might rarely require recharging from the mains, especially because
during daytime riding the battery drain would be limited to the small
amount of power used by a DRL.

On 3/31/2021 7:01 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/31/2021 5:21 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:

Sorry to go on and on, but hopefully Frank now understands the issue better.

This sort of rhetoric might have been part of why you could not win
reelection in Appleville.

Could be, but I think the real reason was that a developer spent about
$100,000 on the campaigns of two opponents. But I will try again next
year, it's no big deal either way, it's essentially a volunteer position.

My big accomplishments, bicycle-related, were pushing through a bicycle
boulevard, protected bicycle lanes, and a new multi-use trail (under
construction). The protected bicycle lanes have been wonderful. It
wasn't that the unprotected bicycle lanes were dangerous, it was that
they were constantly being blocked by errant vehicles and there was no
way that the police could keep up with ticketing or towing. They aren't
heavily used right now because the schools have not brought back
students for in-person classes, but once that happens they will be used
a lot https://goo.gl/maps/a8X5mehdKCrDi1BQ6.
Others have long grasped the issues about 12 volt systems:
In 2001, the 12V hub, literally weighed down by incandescent lamp physics in
legal requirements to provide a rather high voltage already at low speeds,
would have yielded 100 (source) halogen lumens from a geometrically
complicated filament. But 90 lm could already be tweaked by serially
running two 6V bulbs. Today, either a 2001 or a 2021 6V hub can yield more
than 300 lm (net output) from the optically preferential LED, while a cheap
$20 LED dyno lamp such as the Herrmans H-Black MR4 produces 120 lm, and a
beam quality unheard of even in 2011.
https://fahrradbeleuchtung-info.de/helligkeitsmessung-von-fahrradlampen

The article about the 12V SON dynamo mentions that you can get 6 watts
out of an existing 3W dynamo at high speeds. So presumably you can get
12 watts out of 6V dynamo at high speeds, but more importantly you can
get 6 watts at lower speeds.

"The obvious significance of this is that bike lights powered by dynamos
could soon become seriously bright - perhaps bright enough to woo back
some of those who have been tempted onto the new generation of
high-power rechargeables."
http://www.velovision.com/ftp-admin/VVArchive/www.velovisionmag.co.uk/showStory37a0.html?storynum=56

Of course you also have people like me, and apparently Jay, that
recognize the benefits of dynamo powered lights and the benefits of
battery powered lights, and the situations where each one has the advantage.

Not many people in the U.S. have even heard of Herrmans lights. I have
one of these
https://herrmans.eu/products/front-lights-4147/dynamo-10038/h-black-pro-dynamo/#technical-data

on my Dahon folder. Only 200 lumens but a nice beam pattern. It cost €63
from Bike24 in Germany. Also got some of the BBB Fueltank XL bottle
cages from them (now discontinued).


It certainly appears that German regulations are impairing progress in
bicycle dynamo lighting. I’d be sorely tempted to abandon all the current
standards and go to a DC 4 wire system (a pair for power and a pair for
comm), with a voltage that accommodates modern Li Ion batteries and modern
electronics. 5 V, 3 A could be a nice place to start. A standard connector,
an existing simple comm protocol and some sort of intelligent power
management scheme could allow dynamo hubs, batteries, lights and
accessories to all plug and play together.

Including regenerative braking. I think that most people ride a
sufficient distance in the daytime to keep a battery charged.

On 3/31/2021 9:39 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:27:07 -0700, sms
wrote:

My big accomplishments, bicycle-related, were pushing through a bicycle
boulevard, protected bicycle lanes, and a new multi-use trail (under
construction). The protected bicycle lanes have been wonderful. It
wasn't that the unprotected bicycle lanes were dangerous, it was that
they were constantly being blocked by errant vehicles and there was no
way that the police could keep up with ticketing or towing.

Nicely done. In the People's Republic of Santa Cruz, the "pedestrian"
bridge over the San Lorenzo River is routinely blocked by police,
parks, state, and other vehicle using it as a short-cut when Hwy 1
traffic is at a standstill. The vehicles manage to squeeze over the
bridge with about 1ft clearance on each side. That means that
everyone has to walk or ride ahead or behind the vehicles as they
slowly and carefully crawl across the bridge. I suspect that some
oversized vehicle will eventually try to make it across and create an
Ever Given style blockage. I suggest that you remember this for when
the next bicycle trail is proposed and try to specify some kind of
vehicle barrier or minefield to discourage non-emergency vehicles from
using it as a roadway.

There are a couple of issues with protected bicycle lanes that we've had
to deal with. Some of the streets have houses and the garbage cans need
to be placed in a way that they don't block the bicycle lanes. Street
sweeping is more complicated; eventually there will be specialized
sweepers that can handle this, but for now the protected bicycle lanes
are swept manually into the street then the street sweeper picks up the
debris. Some residents that live on the streets with protected bicycle
lanes were unhappy about losing street parking, but even before the
protected bicycle lanes were put in very few residents parked on the
street. My personal feeling is that public roads should be used for
public access which takes precedence over them being used as parking
areas, but I understand why they were upset since if they have guests
with vehicles those vehicles would have to park on adjoining streets.

On 4/1/2021 1:23 AM, James wrote:
On 1/4/21 4:01 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/31/2021 12:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:


People prefer brighter, battery powered lights.

People "prefer" what they are told to buy, which is what's on top of
the counter when they wander into a bike shop. If shops had dyno
systems available and explained their advantages, more Portlanders
would buy them.

I think they are driven by price more than anything.Â* Battery lights can
be pretty cheap, even if the beam shape is crap and they get attached to
handlebars with rubber bands.Â* No wires.Â* No drag, even if good hub
dynamos have so little drag you don't notice.Â* Easy to remove for a
weekend fast ride or race, etc.Â* They're more convenient - even if they
go flat when you need them most.

The mount and the beam shape should definitely be taken into account
when buying battery powered lights.

A good battery powered light doesn't cost $5, but when you get into the
$40-$60 range there are some excellent choices. Personally I'd like to
see aluminum or steel mounting brackets but those aren't that common
(Lezyne had some available but they didn't ship with the light).

As to the beam shape, it's important to remember why dynamo lights have
the beam shape they do. The limited output needs to be precisely
directed on the road. But some spill off to the sides, and upwards, is
actually desirable. Unless you're in Ohio where panel delivery trucks
routinely knock down low-hanging branches, having some amount of light
shining up is extremely useful.

Especially nice are some of the lights where you can use a replaceable
18650, 25650 Li-Ion battery or 3 AA batteries. I have one of these on my
mountain bike and I fabricated an extremely secure metal mount for it
and it sits under the handlebars. The 26650 battery cost more than the
light https://www.orbtronic.com/26650-battery-protected-li-ion but I
could have used a much less expensive, lower capacity, 18650 battery (or
three NiMH AA cells or three non-rechargeable AA cells).