25 or bigger?

Since it was given to me by the bike shop last September I have
changed (in chronological order) the crankset, saddle, bottom bracket,
downtube shifters, brake levers, handlebars, fork, cassette, chain,
rear derailleur, wheelset, crankset, bottom bracket, front derailleur,
and stem.

It still has the original frame, headset, seat post, handlebar tape,
brakes, pedals and front inner tube.

Triple up front, mountain bike 11-28 on back, friction downtube for
the front derailleur, indexed downtube for the rear derailleur. The
current tires are 700x23 Bontrager Race X-Lites.

I'm thinking of going with wider tires and another new fork that is a
little bit taller and that has eyelets for a front rack so I can be
prepared in the event of ever having the time to do a fully loaded
tour. The current Bontrager tires can then be spares for the race
bike and I'll be less worried about flats (and more comfortable) when
I take the bike on the bad roads. Before spending the last two weeks
in Qinghai I had this idea (hope/dream/plan) of maybe riding this bike
to Tibet some day but I did not altitude adapt well when I was up
there and I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to go high like that by
bike.

The bike shop says I can go as wide as 700x25 without changing my
current brakes. I'm willing to change my current brakes. On an
aluminum Giant frankenbike with Dura Ace bolts holding the Ultegra
granny gear to the FSA octalink crankset, a Brooks saddle, a Tiagra
front derailleur an Alivio rear derailleur and 105 wheels ... there
are very few reasons against changing the brakes. Why not go Tektro?

Seriously, how big a comfort difference am I going to get by changing
the tires from 700x23 to 700x25? Would it be a better idea to go even
wider or are 25s wide enough for roads that haven't been repaved or
maintained since the mid 1960s? I've done these same roads with the
23s and while it hurt it was doable.

-M

On Jul 24, 10:54 am, "
wrote:

Seriously, how big a comfort difference am I going to get by changing
the tires from 700x23 to 700x25?

Not much, but you'll be able to run a few psi lower. I find 28mm to be
the point where the width difference is truly palpable. I run a bike
with 23mm tires and one with 30mm tires. While the 23mm tired ride
feels a bit nippier off the line, the 30mm tired bike feels much more
confident and comfortable.

Mount the fattest you can fit, which hopefully will be a 28mm tire. It
does sort of shock me that modern road bikes have gone to such
unnecessary tight clearances that we have to have this conversation at
all.

In article .com,
wrote:

The bike shop says I can go as wide as 700x25 without changing my
current brakes. I'm willing to change my current brakes.


You can't change brakes w/o changing the bike frame. The bike
frame is designed to a specific brake reach and size. If you
put on brakes with a longer reach, you have to get smaller
wheels ( See various 650B rants. )

Why not go Tektro?


I dunno, I've been very happy w/mine. They lack snob appeal and
the chrome bits are subject to cosmetic rust, but they stop the bike just
fine.

Seriously, how big a comfort difference am I going to get by changing
the tires from 700x23 to 700x25?

Depends how much you weigh, if you can run 25's at a lower than
average PSI ( like 90 or so ) you might get a significant
benefit. The quality of the tire matters as well, some tire are
bricks[1] and some are much nicer. The other thing to be attentive
to is that tire sizing is often very misleading. Two tires marked
700x25 can actually have significantly different widths when
mounted on the rims.

Would it be a better idea to go even
wider or are 25s wide enough for roads that haven't been repaved or
maintained since the mid 1960s?

_ Not for me, I like 32mm tires for bad roads, I can live with
25mm tires if the sections aren't too long, or are all uphill.

I've done these same roads with the
23s and while it hurt it was doable.


There is a tire made for exactly your problem, it's called the
Rivendell Rolly-Polly. It's about the biggest tire that will fit
in current short reach brakes ( most true 28mm are too tall ).

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/622.html

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- Generally the more "puncture resistant" the tire claims to
be the worse it rides. Stiff sidewalls make for poor riding
tires.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:54:09 -0000, "
asked:
\
Seriously, how big a comfort difference am I going to get by changing
the tires from 700x23 to 700x25? Would it be a better idea to go even
wider or are 25s wide enough for roads that haven't been repaved or
maintained since the mid 1960s? I've done these same roads with the
23s and while it hurt it was doable.

Personally, given enough clearance, I'd go to at least 28mm for the
loads and roads involved in touring.

I've toured on 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" tires and found the 1 1/4" less
troublesome.

So, if you've got room for 32mm don't be a weight-weenie over the
issue. It's easier to save weight by leaving stuff at home when
you're touring.
--
zk

On Jul 25, 12:38 am, Booker C. Bense bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:

The bike shop says I can go as wide as 700x25 without changing my
current brakes. I'm willing to change my current brakes.

You can't change brakes w/o changing the bike frame. The bike
frame is designed to a specific brake reach and size. If you
put on brakes with a longer reach, you have to get smaller
wheels ( See various 650B rants. )

I'm not changing the frame. I've changed too much on this bike
already.

Why not go Tektro?

I dunno, I've been very happy w/mine. They lack snob appeal and
the chrome bits are subject to cosmetic rust, but they stop the bike just
fine.

Ahh, that was tongue in cheek. I've got so many other brands on this
bike, and if I could, in fact, figure out something to make Sora I'd
have the entire Shimano road line-up represented.

Seriously, how big a comfort difference am I going to get by changing
the tires from 700x23 to 700x25?

Depends how much you weigh, if you can run 25's at a lower than
average PSI ( like 90 or so ) you might get a significant
benefit. The quality of the tire matters as well, some tire are
bricks[1] and some are much nicer. The other thing to be attentive
to is that tire sizing is often very misleading. Two tires marked
700x25 can actually have significantly different widths when
mounted on the rims.

I'm hovering around 90kg. My current 700x23s are ~100rmb Bontrager
Race X-Lites and they're quite nice compared to, say, the ~30rmb Chen
Shin Tires I had on before.

Would it be a better idea to go even
wider or are 25s wide enough for roads that haven't been repaved or
maintained since the mid 1960s?

_ Not for me, I like 32mm tires for bad roads, I can live with
25mm tires if the sections aren't too long, or are all uphill.

The specific bad road that I am most likely to ride this bike on is a
415 km stretch of semi-coastal highway with some mountains going from
Sanya to Haikou. The 280km route is currently being repaved. The
310km route is half mountain. Also, I'd like to take this bike
touring some day and that could mean bad roads.

(Tibet plans were previously a in-the-future thing and have since been
put even more on hold until we find out why my heart rate and blood
pressure and EKG were normal but I still managed to collapse in the
middle of the street from oxygen deprivation while walking in Qinghai)

I've done these same roads with the
23s and while it hurt it was doable.

There is a tire made for exactly your problem, it's called the
Rivendell Rolly-Polly. It's about the biggest tire that will fit
in current short reach brakes ( most true 28mm are too tall ).

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/622.html

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- Generally the more "puncture resistant" the tire claims to
be the worse it rides. Stiff sidewalls make for poor riding
tires.

I don't seem to get many punctures. Pinch flats. Sidewall blowouts.
But not punctures.

-M

On Jul 25, 2:37 am, Zoot Katz wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:54:09 -0000, "
asked:
\

Seriously, how big a comfort difference am I going to get by changing
the tires from 700x23 to 700x25? Would it be a better idea to go even
wider or are 25s wide enough for roads that haven't been repaved or
maintained since the mid 1960s? I've done these same roads with the
23s and while it hurt it was doable.

Personally, given enough clearance, I'd go to at least 28mm for the
loads and roads involved in touring.

We've taken a closer look at the frame. No problem with the front
tire. That can go as big as I want. But the brake bridge on the seat
stays is way too close for anything bigger than 25mm.

Now comes the question, if one were so inclined, and one actually
rather liked the frame, what are the chances of completely destroying
an aluminum frame if one were to remove that brake bridge and try
putting in a new one higher up?

And the next question, is it worthwhile to have a wider tire up front
(cause I can) and just have a 25 in back (cause it's the best I can)?

-M

In article .com,
wrote:


The specific bad road that I am most likely to ride this bike on is a
415 km stretch of semi-coastal highway with some mountains going from
Sanya to Haikou. The 280km route is currently being repaved. The
310km route is half mountain. Also, I'd like to take this bike
touring some day and that could mean bad roads.

Well, people tour on just about anything, but you wouldn't catch
me trying to do loaded touring on a bike that could only take
25mm tires even on good roads.

All the bits from your current bike[1] will work just fine on a newer
frame ( or older frame ) that will work with bigger tires.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- Except the brake calipers.

In article .com,
wrote:

We've taken a closer look at the frame. No problem with the front
tire. That can go as big as I want. But the brake bridge on the seat
stays is way too close for anything bigger than 25mm.

Now comes the question, if one were so inclined, and one actually
rather liked the frame, what are the chances of completely destroying
an aluminum frame if one were to remove that brake bridge and try
putting in a new one higher up?

You might as well trash the frame at that point. Steel can be
rebrazed, but aluminum alloys require special inert gas welding
techniques. It would be far cheaper just to buy a new frame.


And the next question, is it worthwhile to have a wider tire up front
(cause I can) and just have a 25 in back (cause it's the best I can)?


Better than nothing. I've run bikes that way and it does reduce
the vibration to the hands. See

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#mixing

You might also consider various shock
absorbing seat posts. They add weight, but the good
ones do take some of the harseness out of the road.

_ Booker C. Bense

On Jul 26, 1:27 am, Booker C. Bense bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:

We've taken a closer look at the frame. No problem with the front
tire. That can go as big as I want. But the brake bridge on the seat
stays is way too close for anything bigger than 25mm.

Now comes the question, if one were so inclined, and one actually
rather liked the frame, what are the chances of completely destroying
an aluminum frame if one were to remove that brake bridge and try
putting in a new one higher up?

You might as well trash the frame at that point. Steel can be
rebrazed, but aluminum alloys require special inert gas welding
techniques. It would be far cheaper just to buy a new frame.

****. This particular bike is special to me and with having a race
bike and mountain bike in my stable the niche it currently fits into
is daily bike and trainer. I was hoping I could make it fit into
touring category as well because even if I'm not likely to do real
loaded touring for a while yet I don't want to need a fourth bike to
do it


And the next question, is it worthwhile to have a wider tire up front
(cause I can) and just have a 25 in back (cause it's the best I can)?

Better than nothing. I've run bikes that way and it does reduce
the vibration to the hands. See

28? 32? if I can't go wider than 25 in back, how wide can I go in
front before things are wonky.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#mixing

You might also consider various shock
absorbing seat posts. They add weight, but the good
ones do take some of the harseness out of the road.

I've got a Brooks saddle so I'm pretty good on shock absorbing.

-M

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:36:20 -0000, "
wrote:

On Jul 26, 1:27 am, Booker C. Bense bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:

We've taken a closer look at the frame. No problem with the front
tire. That can go as big as I want. But the brake bridge on the seat
stays is way too close for anything bigger than 25mm.

Now comes the question, if one were so inclined, and one actually
rather liked the frame, what are the chances of completely destroying
an aluminum frame if one were to remove that brake bridge and try
putting in a new one higher up?

You might as well trash the frame at that point. Steel can be
rebrazed, but aluminum alloys require special inert gas welding
techniques. It would be far cheaper just to buy a new frame.

****. This particular bike is special to me and with having a race
bike and mountain bike in my stable the niche it currently fits into
is daily bike and trainer. I was hoping I could make it fit into
touring category as well because even if I'm not likely to do real
loaded touring for a while yet I don't want to need a fourth bike to
do it

MIG welding isn't that hard to find these days. I don't know that I'd
want to weld a new brake bridge so close to where the other had been.
More frequently tubes break adjacent to the weld and that metal in
the seat stay has already been distorted by the previous welding.

And the next question, is it worthwhile to have a wider tire up front
(cause I can) and just have a 25 in back (cause it's the best I can)?

Better than nothing. I've run bikes that way and it does reduce
the vibration to the hands. See

28? 32? if I can't go wider than 25 in back, how wide can I go in
front before things are wonky.

The wider front tire should always give you better steering and
braking on loose surfaces. When running one studded tire on snow,
it's the front one.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#mixing

You might also consider various shock
absorbing seat posts. They add weight, but the good
ones do take some of the harseness out of the road.

I've got a Brooks saddle so I'm pretty good on shock absorbing.

When I started reading this group leather saddles were widely
disparaged by the masses. Lately I've been seeing them and hearing of
other people using them more and more frequently. A Brooks boinger
usually cuts weight over most suspension seat posts sporting a
gel-filled wide saddle.
--
zk