Your gearing is obsolete

On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 11:48:40 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 7:28:08 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 8:25:59 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 7:43:32 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2020 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 10:39:48 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 07:03:29 -0700, cyclintom wrote:


The defining factor for bicycle commuting is in general distance. Women,
children and old people are not going to ride 5 miles to get their
groceries.

Lol, as usual more piffle from Tommmie.
5 miles is SFA

I'm going to support cyclintom on this one. 3 miles is about the longest distance commuting is reasonable on an every day basis. Long ago in school I lived 2 miles from elementary, 3 miles from junior high, 3 miles from high school. I commuted, rode my bike to all of them. Reasonable enough distance. Anything much longer and the bike ride becomes onerous. I know a lawyer who commutes about 10 miles each way to his downtown office. He does it most days of the year. But you are talking 45 minutes of riding time each way. Separated by 8-10 hours of working in the office.

I agree that distance is a huge factor. Of the two jobs I held the
longest, I commuted almost every day to the one 2.6 miles away. I
commuted less often (maybe 2-3 times per week) to the one seven miles away.

This is the main reason I disagree with those who promise that
"protected" bike lanes will get a significant number of Americans out of
their cars. It's unfortunate, but modern America is characterized by
sprawl, with long travel distances. And that's specifically because it
was "designed" assuming automobile transportation.

But of course, there are other factors besides distance. My schedule and
responsibilities were much heavier for the seven mile job. Also, one of
my best biking buddies had the same employer but lived about 1.5 miles
away. He rarely used his bike to get to work, despite his constant
complaining about parking difficulties.

People are just different. And in America, a person must be very
different to want to bike to work.

Not really. If distances are short, terrain flat, traffic bad and parking prices high, you'll see a lot of ordinary people on bikes. Most of the morning commuters in PDX are not Keep Portland Weird types or subculturists as you suggest. They are just people going to work. On my route, many are doctors and nurses going to OHSU. https://www.ohsu.edu/sites/default/f...anner_2020.jpg That's like a third of the bicycle parking down at the Tram. https://bikeportland.org/2017/01/27/...e-versa-214214

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay, you're not talking about distances and times to commute. Doctors commuting to an office 10 miles on a commuter bike averaging less than 10 mph and arriving sweaty and anxious from heavy car traffic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI7T2iuGjjc This guy commutes to OHSU. In fact, I've run into him a few times. He's apparently a doctor of some sort. Nice shots going up through the cemetery which is part of my commute home. It's a funny video if you live in PDX because he's going up and down hills that he should only be going up. It's actually a brutal climb up to the hospital if you don't take the tram from south waterfront. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XYwYhXcHk4


-- Jay Beattie.

Ah, no handlebar bag = failure as an utility bicyclist. LOL

Cheers

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:53:41 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Most bikes going with a 1x setup. On the crankset, if one had a granny gear or the small chainring for a road bike, this cassette setup compensates the lack of additional chainrings. I like.

Op donderdag 25 juni 2020 02:34:16 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:53:41 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Most bikes going with a 1x setup. On the crankset, if one had a granny gear or the small chainring for a road bike, this cassette setup compensates the lack of additional chainrings. I like.

Since the number of gears in the back is limited, even with a 12 setup, the same gear range with only one chainring comes at the cost of big jumps between gears. For a road bike this is a 'strange' choice. YMMV.

Lou

Am Sun, 14 Jun 2020 12:56:00 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/14/2020 11:25 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Fri, 12 Jun 2020 10:05:27 -0700 (PDT) schrieb :

I can't see
the fun in getting groceries by bike if you don't have to.

I don't see much fun in that, either.

Interesting. I actually do enjoy it. And once we're in the process of
doing it, so does my wife.

What I meant was: we don't enjoy shopping, by whatever means.



Here's how it normally goes in our house:

Me: "Let's ride up to get groceries." Wife: "Are we taking the bikes
again?" [because sometimes we don't.] Me: "Of course" or "Yes, it's a
nice day" etc. She'll then sigh and say "OK." But there's often some
reluctance.

By the time we're halfway home, which is the downhill portion of the
trip, she's smiling and obviously enjoying herself. She likes passing me
on one short rise, which she easily can because I'm carrying most of the
load.

At home, I'll say "Now wasn't that fun?" and she always agrees.

Our two nearest supermarkets and some specialiced shops are about 500 m
away, getting to the inner town center takes about 1.5 km. So taking the
bike is essentially a question about how heavy the stuff to be bought
will be. Usually, we just walk.

I don't like to carry 10 kg of potatoes or 25 kg of garden soil on my
back, so that's a case for the shopping bike, an inexpensive and heavy
dutch type bicycle.

This one, in fact,
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lidl.de%2Fmedia%2Fproduct%2F0% 2F0%2F1%2F6%2F4%2F2%2F0%2Fprophete-nostalgierad-71-12-cm-28-zoll-3-gang-nabenschaltung-nabendynamo--8.jpg
or https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/prophete.jpg.

It isn't a good bike, but I was in a hurry when I bought it and it
wasn't expensive, either. These bikes go for about 250 EUR (~$280)
around here. Last but not least, it serves the purpose.


--
Radhelme sind die Bachblüten des Straßenverkehrs

On 6/25/2020 6:41 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 25 juni 2020 02:34:16 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:53:41 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Most bikes going with a 1x setup. On the crankset, if one had a granny gear or the small chainring for a road bike, this cassette setup compensates the lack of additional chainrings. I like.

Since the number of gears in the back is limited, even with a 12 setup, the same gear range with only one chainring comes at the cost of big jumps between gears. For a road bike this is a 'strange' choice. YMMV.

+1


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/25/2020 11:04 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sun, 14 Jun 2020 12:56:00 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/14/2020 11:25 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Fri, 12 Jun 2020 10:05:27 -0700 (PDT) schrieb :

I can't see
the fun in getting groceries by bike if you don't have to.

I don't see much fun in that, either.

Interesting. I actually do enjoy it. And once we're in the process of
doing it, so does my wife.

What I meant was: we don't enjoy shopping, by whatever means.

I agree, I don't enjoy the shopping. I do enjoy the ride, though. I've
chosen very pleasant neighborhood streets for the routes there and back.
And it's nice that it's uphill there when we're unloaded, and downhill
back with the load.

Also, all but a couple of the streets we use were freshly paved last
year. They are beautifully smooth!

Our two nearest supermarkets and some specialiced shops are about 500 m
away, getting to the inner town center takes about 1.5 km. So taking the
bike is essentially a question about how heavy the stuff to be bought
will be. Usually, we just walk.

And that's a big difference with America. To buy a bag of potatoes, we
have to do at least three miles round trip. (We actually do 6.2 miles by
choice for the pleasant roads.) There's a gas station and a pharmacy
that are closer, but the little food they sell is almost nothing but junk.
This one, in fact,
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lidl.de%2Fmedia%2Fproduct%2F0% 2F0%2F1%2F6%2F4%2F2%2F0%2Fprophete-nostalgierad-71-12-cm-28-zoll-3-gang-nabenschaltung-nabendynamo--8.jpg
or https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/prophete.jpg.

It isn't a good bike, but I was in a hurry when I bought it and it
wasn't expensive, either. These bikes go for about 250 EUR (~$280)
around here. Last but not least, it serves the purpose.

No baskets or bags?

The bike I use for groceries has folding open-top grocery panniers on
the rear rack, plus (of course!) a big handlebar bag. The three speed
village cruiser bike I built has a small front basket plus a rear rack.

Both of these are fairly lightweight frames. The three speed's frame is
custom built (for someone else) from light Reynolds 531 steel. It even
has a titanium bottom bracket! If it didn't have the basket, racks,
Brooks saddle, hub gear and front Dynohub, it would probably be the
lightest bike I ride.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Am Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:20:32 +0000 (UTC) schrieb Ralph Barone
:

Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:18:02 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Sir Ridesalot

The biggest problem I see with bicycle paths is the LACK of
infrastructure to bicycle to them.

The two biggest problems with bicycle paths are, these either go from
nowhere to nowhere, or they put the cyclist on the wrong side of
traffic.

Bicycle path enthusiasts from all over the world have a solution,
though: just dig a canal from here to there, fill it with water, frame
it with bicyclce paths, and the bicycle traffic will come. It did work
in the Netherlands, so it certainly will work for the steep roads in
your home town, too!



The mayor of the town I used to live in suggested building a canal from the
riverfront to the downtown centre, saying that it would promote tourism.
What he failed to account for was the grade between the start and end
points :-)

In Germany, there is a a saying "es gibt nichts, das es nicht gibt".

Meaning something like "when you're looking for something stupid enough
for nobody trying to do or to build it, somebody already did."

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Am Sun, 14 Jun 2020 22:23:03 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/14/2020 9:53 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 5:08:17 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

It appears from the video that the modern separated facilities
we associate with NL were built after the '70s. To quote
the narrator "build it and they will come in the
Netherlands." They won't come in Omaha and a lot of other
places, and yes, I get it that the US is not the NL (for a
lot of reasons), but that doesn't mean some infrastructure
isn't worthwhile.

Has anybody here ever said "No bike infrastructure is worthwhile?" I
certainly haven't.

Well, I do. Around here in Germanyy, no bike infrastructure is almost
always better than infrastructure which is actually built. Or painted.
The reason for that ist simple, in most cases this so called
infrastructure is just a formal way to prohibiting bicyclists from using
most parts of the road.

But even when looking at what in principle would be possible, instead of
what will actually be built, in most cases separate bike infrastructure
is worse that no bike infrastructure. This is so for the very same
reason, there just isn't enought space. When two connected
infrastructures are built into one level, one hase to give way, either
verbatim or figuratively.

Even in the Netherlands, it's the motorized traffic that always gets
priority, more space, the right of way, the better routes that go right
from the releavant sources of traffic to the relevant destinations.

The Netherlands somewhat hide that fact because the land is very flat,
has a lot of water and bridges, and because it is tiny, so reducing
bicycling traffic to short distance trips isn't as noticeable as in,
say, hilly regions where all the good valleys are already filled with
generous major an minor roads, so that "bicycle infrastructure" has to
meander around these.

I have had my share of so called "Bettelampeln"*), thank you very much,
where I had to beg for green by pushing a button in turn at three
separate places (!) for getting thru an intersection, where with a car
I'd just would had driven through green because of phased traffic
lights.

But I've yet to experience a single, existing bicycle infrastructure

- where I had the wish or necessity to ride a bicycle

- which was actually better than just having an ordinary road there


*) Bettelampel: a kind of pedestrian light, which forces a pedestrian to
push a button to get green.





Yes, I say a lot about bad design features, mistaken conceptions, etc.
Yes, I point out whiz-bang infrastructure that caused increases in
crashes. I don't think "any bike facility is a good bike facility."

Don't fault me for pointing out facility faults; it's not blasphemy.
That crap isn't sacred.

Bike facilites are almost always crap. Good bike facilities are almost
always not recognizeable as bike facilites. Like, for example, using low
rolling resistance asphalt. Or rightsizing lanes.

--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions

On 6/25/2020 10:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2020 6:41 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 25 juni 2020 02:34:16 UTC+2 schreef
:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:53:41 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Most bikes going with a 1x setup. On the crankset, if one
had a granny gear or the small chainring for a road bike,
this cassette setup compensates the lack of additional
chainrings. I like.

Since the number of gears in the back is limited, even
with a 12 setup, the same gear range with only one
chainring comes at the cost of big jumps between gears.
For a road bike this is a 'strange' choice. YMMV.

+1



Compared to a modern 2x11 compact I agree.
But frankly compared to classic 2x5 or 2x6 gearing, it plots
out pretty well.

I don't want one but it's a sane choice for some riders.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/25/2020 11:56 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sun, 14 Jun 2020 22:23:03 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/14/2020 9:53 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 5:08:17 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

It appears from the video that the modern separated facilities
we associate with NL were built after the '70s. To quote
the narrator "build it and they will come in the
Netherlands." They won't come in Omaha and a lot of other
places, and yes, I get it that the US is not the NL (for a
lot of reasons), but that doesn't mean some infrastructure
isn't worthwhile.

Has anybody here ever said "No bike infrastructure is worthwhile?" I
certainly haven't.

Well, I do. Around here in Germanyy, no bike infrastructure is almost
always better than infrastructure which is actually built. Or painted.
The reason for that ist simple, in most cases this so called
infrastructure is just a formal way to prohibiting bicyclists from using
most parts of the road.

But even when looking at what in principle would be possible, instead of
what will actually be built, in most cases separate bike infrastructure
is worse that no bike infrastructure. This is so for the very same
reason, there just isn't enought space. When two connected
infrastructures are built into one level, one hase to give way, either
verbatim or figuratively.

Even in the Netherlands, it's the motorized traffic that always gets
priority, more space, the right of way, the better routes that go right
from the releavant sources of traffic to the relevant destinations.

The Netherlands somewhat hide that fact because the land is very flat,
has a lot of water and bridges, and because it is tiny, so reducing
bicycling traffic to short distance trips isn't as noticeable as in,
say, hilly regions where all the good valleys are already filled with
generous major an minor roads, so that "bicycle infrastructure" has to
meander around these.

I have had my share of so called "Bettelampeln"*), thank you very much,
where I had to beg for green by pushing a button in turn at three
separate places (!) for getting thru an intersection, where with a car
I'd just would had driven through green because of phased traffic
lights.

But I've yet to experience a single, existing bicycle infrastructure

- where I had the wish or necessity to ride a bicycle

- which was actually better than just having an ordinary road there


*) Bettelampel: a kind of pedestrian light, which forces a pedestrian to
push a button to get green.





Yes, I say a lot about bad design features, mistaken conceptions, etc.
Yes, I point out whiz-bang infrastructure that caused increases in
crashes. I don't think "any bike facility is a good bike facility."

Don't fault me for pointing out facility faults; it's not blasphemy.
That crap isn't sacred.

Bike facilites are almost always crap. Good bike facilities are almost
always not recognizeable as bike facilites. Like, for example, using low
rolling resistance asphalt. Or rightsizing lanes.


+1 well done, Mr Strobl.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971