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Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 2nd 08, 05:07 AM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

CJ (who?) anonymously snipes:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
I agree about the perception problem with bike lanes and bike routes -
some (many?) motorists can and do assume that one is required
to use them instead of using the automobile traffic lanes.

Sometimes the bike lanes are unsafe by design(Berkeley had some that
were in the door zone, for example), sometimes they have road hazards
that motorists would ignore, sometimes they aren't as direct,
sometimes they don't go where you want to go. But motorists believe
that's where cyclists should be.

I understand the attractions of them, but....

I have had assholes swerve towards me while passing, then point at the
"bike path" on the sidewalk while yelling "get off the road".

MMMOOOOOOMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYY

The big kids are pickin' on me again.

Catch the cagers outside their vehicles and they stop being so tough.
Wonder why?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth
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  #22  
Old February 2nd 08, 05:10 AM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Bill Z.
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Posts: 1,556
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
Tom Sherman writes:
I could rebut this, but that would just be a repeat of the discussion
we had a few months ago. The interested can find that discussion with
a Google search.

The "discussion" was more or less an emotional argument on your part.

We are referring to the behavior of drivers, much of which is driven
(pun intended) by emotion.


Actually, you really had an emotional reaction to bike lanes, as I
recall. Am I confusing you with someone else?

As to "rebutting" it, readers can verify everything I stated at
http://leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. Click the "Vehicle Code" check box
and then search for bike lane or bicycle lane.
21208. (a) Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a
roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle
upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic
moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the
bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under
any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, vehicle, or
pedestrian within the lane or about to enter the lane if the
overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a
private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid
debris or other hazardous conditions.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) No person operating a bicycle shall leave a bicycle lane until
the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after
giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6
(commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be
affected by the movement.
21207. (a) This chapter does not prohibit local authorities from
establishing, by ordinance or resolution, bicycle lanes separated
from any vehicular lanes upon highways, other than state highways as
defined in Section 24 of the Streets and Highways Code and county
highways established pursuant to Article 5 (commencing with Section
1720) of Chapter 9 of Division 2 of the Streets and Highways Code.
(b) Bicycle lanes established pursuant to this section shall be
constructed in compliance with Section 891 of the Streets and
Highways Code.
Section 891 of the "Streets and Highways Code" defines the design
standards for bike lanes. Section 21208 specifically is written so
that it applies to bicycle lanes satisfying Section 21207, which
requires the bike lane to meet state standards when installed.

[Yawn]


[Facts appear to bore him]

Most drivers do not read the code, so in the real world it hardly
makes a difference. Furthermore, hard as it is to believe, not all of
us live in California!!!


I don't give a damn where you live. The subject of the thread, however,
is about bicycle lanes in Redwood City, which is located on the
pennisula 20 to 25 miles south of San Francisco. Given the location,
traffic laws in California would seem to be quite relevant.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
  #23  
Old February 2nd 08, 05:12 AM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Bill Z.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,556
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
...
LOL - a bike lane is simply another lane with a restriction on who can
use them. It's no different than a "bus-only" lane, and whether you
install tham on a particular road should be treated as a traffic
engineering matter....

Utter nonsense. The bus is big enough to shove the biggest luxury SUV
into the next lane, push come to shove. That is a significant
difference - motorists will try to push the cyclists around (sometimes
literally), but the bus is big and heavy enough to command its own
space.


Under California state law, one's rights are not proportional to one's
vehicle's mass.



--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
  #24  
Old February 2nd 08, 05:30 AM posted to ba.bicycles, rec.bicycles.misc, rec.bicycles.soc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,673
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

On Feb 2, 12:07 am, (Bill Z.) wrote:

Roads are a shared facility. Motorists are supposed to merge into
a bike lane before turning across it, and may merge into the bike
lane when within 200 feet of a turn. If you have drivers merging
in way before that, report the problem to the police. After enough
drivers get some "coupons", the problem will go away.


And in a related fantasy, when enough drivers get speeding tickets,
all drivers will obey the speed limits.

Just before hell freezes over, that is.

- Frank Krygowski
  #26  
Old February 2nd 08, 07:43 AM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 1,452
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

Most drivers do not read the code, so in the real world it hardly
makes a difference. Furthermore, hard as it is to believe, not all of
us live in California!!!


I don't give a damn where you live. The subject of the thread, however,
is about bicycle lanes in Redwood City, which is located on the
pennisula 20 to 25 miles south of San Francisco. Given the location,
traffic laws in California would seem to be quite relevant.


It may have helped if I'd said "Redwood City, California" and not just
Redwood City. The oversight was made when I added the rec.bicycles.misc
newsgroup. Originally, I was posting only to ba.bicycles, a newsgroup of
interest primarily to those in Northern California and likely familiar with
Redwood City. My goof; I'd cut Tom a bit of slack.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Bill Z." wrote in message
...
Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
Tom Sherman writes:
I could rebut this, but that would just be a repeat of the discussion
we had a few months ago. The interested can find that discussion with
a Google search.
The "discussion" was more or less an emotional argument on your part.

We are referring to the behavior of drivers, much of which is driven
(pun intended) by emotion.


Actually, you really had an emotional reaction to bike lanes, as I
recall. Am I confusing you with someone else?

As to "rebutting" it, readers can verify everything I stated at
http://leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. Click the "Vehicle Code" check box
and then search for bike lane or bicycle lane.
21208. (a) Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a
roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle
upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic
moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the
bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under
any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, vehicle, or
pedestrian within the lane or about to enter the lane if the
overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a
private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid
debris or other hazardous conditions.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) No person operating a bicycle shall leave a bicycle lane until
the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after
giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6
(commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be
affected by the movement.
21207. (a) This chapter does not prohibit local authorities from
establishing, by ordinance or resolution, bicycle lanes separated
from any vehicular lanes upon highways, other than state highways as
defined in Section 24 of the Streets and Highways Code and county
highways established pursuant to Article 5 (commencing with Section
1720) of Chapter 9 of Division 2 of the Streets and Highways Code.
(b) Bicycle lanes established pursuant to this section shall be
constructed in compliance with Section 891 of the Streets and
Highways Code.
Section 891 of the "Streets and Highways Code" defines the design
standards for bike lanes. Section 21208 specifically is written so
that it applies to bicycle lanes satisfying Section 21207, which
requires the bike lane to meet state standards when installed.

[Yawn]


[Facts appear to bore him]

Most drivers do not read the code, so in the real world it hardly
makes a difference. Furthermore, hard as it is to believe, not all of
us live in California!!!


I don't give a damn where you live. The subject of the thread, however,
is about bicycle lanes in Redwood City, which is located on the
pennisula 20 to 25 miles south of San Francisco. Given the location,
traffic laws in California would seem to be quite relevant.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB



  #27  
Old February 2nd 08, 11:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,ba.bicycles
Jym Dyer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 999
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

ISTM that there is rarely any bike lane benefit compared to
a wide outside lane without the bike lane stripe ....


=v= The wide outside lane (WOL) was piloted in San Francisco.
They had two effects:

(1) Wide lane! I'll double-park my car in it!
(2) Wide lane! I'll drive my car faster!

These effects don't work very well with each other, and for
bicyclists they are pretty much a worst-case scenario.

=v= I'm not saying bike lanes are better, but WOLs have not
proven themselves to be anything but a failure.
_Jym_

  #28  
Old February 2nd 08, 12:49 PM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
vey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

Tom Sherman wrote:
Eric Vey wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
...
Not good form to reply to my own post, but what I said might mislead
people to what I believe. I absolutely believe that cyclists should
have the same rights to the roads as cars, but I do not agree that
"bicycle lanes" are "separate and unequal", provided it's not
required that one use them. Bicycle lanes are generally, in my
opinion, a good thing, not bad, because they signal to people (both
motorists and potential cyclists) that bicycles are a part of the
transportation network. But it must be done within a framework that
says bikes aren't *required* to use certain paths & routes, it must
be an option. And hopefully, a desirable option....

What is needed is a suspension of the licenses of of the badly
behaving cagers, along with the mandatory use of a bicycle for
transportation during the license suspension period.


I have been looking into this recently. What I am finding is that
people in Florida with suspended and revoked licenses keep driving
anyway.

Around here, many do not have licenses - generally they run from the
police, ditch the unlicensed and/or stolen car, and try to escape on
foot. They are not to blame, since they are what the system wants them
to be, a permanent underclass.


Uhmm, while we do have that going on as well, driving on a revoked or
suspended license for some people seems the be treated as an
administrative matter by the statutes and the courts. After 5
consecutive citations, in I think it is 5 years, it finally reaches the
level of a the most minor misdemeanor, but not much happens if miscreant
doesn't show up for arraignment, just more fines and fees that will go
unpaid.

While I'm sure that some people lose their license because they didn't
pay the $12.50 required every 4 years, most lose it because of points
and that usually indicates poor driving habits.

As I said, eventually they kill someone, often by driving in a reckless
manner.
  #29  
Old February 2nd 08, 12:56 PM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Jens Müller[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

CJ schrieb:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
I disagree. "Bicycle lanes" are separate but unequal facilities that
lead motorists to believe that bicycles do not belong on the roads.

What is needed are wider right lanes [1], mandatory proper driver
education, and severe penalties for motorist who believe that they have
superior rights to cyclists.

Motorists do, indeed, have superior rights on the road.


No, they don't.

Only when bicycles
and cyclists are licensed and licensing fees paid will cyclists rights
improve.


Taxes paid for motor vehicles do not compensate for the external damages
done by them.
  #30  
Old February 2nd 08, 12:59 PM posted to ba.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Jens Müller[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default Dangerous bike lane obstructions in Redwood City

Mike Jacoubowsky schrieb:
I disagree. "Bicycle lanes" are separate but unequal facilities that lead
motorists to believe that bicycles do not belong on the roads.

What is needed are wider right lanes [1], mandatory proper driver
education, and severe penalties for motorist who believe that they have
superior rights to cyclists.

I don't disagree, and technically it turns out these aren't bike "lanes"
anyway. Those are simply "fog lines" painted on the road. But either way
it does nothing to change the fact that, without those obstructions, the
roadway is wide enough for most anybody to cycle safely on. It is
unrealistic to expect all cyclists to "take the lane" even when it's in
their best interest to do so.



Not good form to reply to my own post, but what I said might mislead people
to what I believe. I absolutely believe that cyclists should have the same
rights to the roads as cars, but I do not agree that "bicycle lanes" are
"separate and unequal", provided it's not required that one use them.
Bicycle lanes are generally, in my opinion, a good thing, not bad, because
they signal to people (both motorists and potential cyclists) that bicycles
are a part of the transportation network.


Lanes for blue cabriolets are a good thing, because they signal to
people (both motorists and potential cyclists) that blue cabriolets are
a part of the transportation network.
 




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