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  #61  
Old November 12th 19, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Patent updates

On 11/12/2019 2:34 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 12:19:32 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 2:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 12:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process. But I
believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair.
Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the
time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two
or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required.
But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair
naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver
color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing
internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a
decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually likely
that most buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about
the downsides of internal cables. I suspect that most of
them will never ride the bikes enough to need cable
replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their bikes at
the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal with
any of the possible frustrations. So their thinking will be
limited to a subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of
inconvenience for aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's
car every Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike color.
Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair
dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the
current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would praise
beauty salons as a place of community, where frequent
meetings lead to personal interaction, friendships and
relationships. The author says we need more places like
that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel illustrating
the same thing, centered in a small town barber shop.


"people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos. "

pffft.
My 2d tattoo[1], $20 in 1973, had been a great value[2].
Name something you bought for $20 in 1973 you still own,
let alone enjoy.

The main inconvenience of tattoos, I've been told, is the
pain. My wife has a fascination with them and often asks
people about theirs. The most frequent answer to her "Did it
hurt?" is "YES!" Some then say "It was worth it." (One said
"What can I say? I was stupid.")

But whether you like having it or not is not the point. My
point was, you probably went though the pain for aesthetic
purposes.

As to what I own from that era: How about my K&E Deci-Lon
slide rule? (Sorry, I don't recall its 1966 price.) In my
desk drawer six inches from my knee. A functional tool, as
well as a thing of geeky beauty! ;-)

I'm also looking at a nice German air rifle, bought used in
about '73. It may soon have an appointment with the squirrel
I see trying to get to the bird feeder.

One of my earliest vinyl record purchases is still here and
brought out occasionally. _Medieval Roots_ by New York Pro
Musica. Still beautiful and exotic.

Other purely aesthetic objects from 1973? I can't think of
one right now - probably because my tastes have changed.
That's why I don't get tattoos.


You're a wise man of excellent taste, Frank. We have the
same slide rule of the same age, Never needs batteries and
no one ever 'borrows' it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I still have a slide ruler somewhere for nostalgic reasons but I (still) use fountain pens to write and I have a HP '2.5 ENTER 3 x' calculator (hp11c) for 35 years. These also never get 'borrowed'.


I wish I had my 11C. It disappeared, along with my briefcase, when I was
doing some work at a local company. We suspected the temporary employee
of a cleaning company.

Sad thing is, the guy would never get any use out of it. He wouldn't
figure out the RPN.

The company bought me an HP 32SII as a replacement, but I don't like it
as well as the 11C. It matters little, I suppose. I mostly use an HP-48
these days.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #62  
Old November 12th 19, 07:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Patent updates

On 11/12/2019 11:03 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/12/2019 2:34 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 12:19:32 AM UTC+1, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/11/2019 2:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 12:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process. But I
believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair.
Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV
all the
time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week
or two
or month or so. I don't know how often dye is
required.
But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair
naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver
color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing
fishing
internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a
decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually
likely
that most buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about
the downsides of internal cables. I suspect that most of
them will never ride the bikes enough to need cable
replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their
bikes at
the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal
with
any of the possible frustrations. So their thinking
will be
limited to a subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of
inconvenience for aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's
car every Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike
color.
Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair
dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the
current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would
praise
beauty salons as a place of community, where frequent
meetings lead to personal interaction, friendships and
relationships. The author says we need more places like
that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel
illustrating
the same thing, centered in a small town barber shop.


"people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos. "

pffft.
My 2d tattoo[1], $20 in 1973, had been a great value[2].
Name something you bought for $20 in 1973 you still own,
let alone enjoy.

The main inconvenience of tattoos, I've been told, is the
pain. My wife has a fascination with them and often asks
people about theirs. The most frequent answer to her
"Did it
hurt?" is "YES!" Some then say "It was worth it." (One said
"What can I say? I was stupid.")

But whether you like having it or not is not the point. My
point was, you probably went though the pain for aesthetic
purposes.

As to what I own from that era: How about my K&E Deci-Lon
slide rule? (Sorry, I don't recall its 1966 price.) In my
desk drawer six inches from my knee. A functional tool, as
well as a thing of geeky beauty! ;-)

I'm also looking at a nice German air rifle, bought used in
about '73. It may soon have an appointment with the
squirrel
I see trying to get to the bird feeder.

One of my earliest vinyl record purchases is still here and
brought out occasionally. _Medieval Roots_ by New York Pro
Musica. Still beautiful and exotic.

Other purely aesthetic objects from 1973? I can't think of
one right now - probably because my tastes have changed.
That's why I don't get tattoos.


You're a wise man of excellent taste, Frank. We have the
same slide rule of the same age, Never needs batteries and
no one ever 'borrows' it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I still have a slide ruler somewhere for nostalgic reasons
but I (still) use fountain pens to write and I have a HP
'2.5 ENTER 3 x' calculator (hp11c) for 35 years. These
also never get 'borrowed'.


I wish I had my 11C. It disappeared, along with my
briefcase, when I was doing some work at a local company. We
suspected the temporary employee of a cleaning company.

Sad thing is, the guy would never get any use out of it. He
wouldn't figure out the RPN.

The company bought me an HP 32SII as a replacement, but I
don't like it as well as the 11C. It matters little, I
suppose. I mostly use an HP-48 these days.


tsk tsk.
You called me out for an oblique reference to Polish culture
(which I removed. You weren't wrong) and now YOU type 'rpn' ??

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #63  
Old November 12th 19, 10:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Patent updates

On 11/12/2019 1:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2019 11:03 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/12/2019 2:34 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 12:19:32 AM UTC+1, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/11/2019 2:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 12:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process.Â* But I
believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair.
Purely for aesthetics.Â* I see commercials on TV
all the
time.Â* I assume they re-dye their hair every week
or two
or month or so.Â* I don't know how often dye is
required.
But I know its not a one time thing.Â* Old people hair
naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver
color.Â* Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing
fishing
internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a
decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually
likely
that most buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about
the downsides of internal cables. I suspect that most of
them will never ride the bikes enough to need cable
replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their
bikes at
the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal
with
any of the possible frustrations. So their thinking
will be
limited to a subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of
inconvenience for aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's
car every Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike
color.
Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair
dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the
current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would
praise
beauty salons as a place of community, where frequent
meetings lead to personal interaction, friendships and
relationships. The author says we need more places like
that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel
illustrating
the same thing, centered in a small town barber shop.


"people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos. "

pffft.
My 2d tattoo[1], $20 in 1973, had been a great value[2].
Name something you bought for $20 in 1973 you still own,
let alone enjoy.

The main inconvenience of tattoos, I've been told, is the
pain. My wife has a fascination with them and often asks
people about theirs. The most frequent answer to her
"Did it
hurt?" is "YES!" Some then say "It was worth it." (One said
"What can I say? I was stupid.")

But whether you like having it or not is not the point. My
point was, you probably went though the pain for aesthetic
purposes.

As to what I own from that era: How about my K&E Deci-Lon
slide rule? (Sorry, I don't recall its 1966 price.) In my
desk drawer six inches from my knee. A functional tool, as
well as a thing of geeky beauty! ;-)

I'm also looking at a nice German air rifle, bought used in
about '73. It may soon have an appointment with the
squirrel
I see trying to get to the bird feeder.

One of my earliest vinyl record purchases is still here and
brought out occasionally. _Medieval Roots_ by New York Pro
Musica. Still beautiful and exotic.

Other purely aesthetic objects from 1973? I can't think of
one right now - probably because my tastes have changed.
That's why I don't get tattoos.


You're a wise man of excellent taste, Frank. We have the
same slide rule of the same age, Never needs batteries and
no one ever 'borrows' it.

--
Andrew Muzi
** www.yellowjersey.org/
** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I still have a slide ruler somewhere for nostalgic reasons
but I (still) use fountain pens to write and I have a HP
'2.5 ENTER 3 x' calculator (hp11c) for 35 years. These
also never get 'borrowed'.


I wish I had my 11C. It disappeared, along with my
briefcase, when I was doing some work at a local company. We
suspected the temporary employee of a cleaning company.

Sad thing is, the guy would never get any use out of it. He
wouldn't figure out the RPN.

The company bought me an HP 32SII as a replacement, but I
don't like it as well as the 11C. It matters little, I
suppose. I mostly use an HP-48 these days.


tsk tsk.
You called me out for an oblique reference to Polish culture (which I
removed. You weren't wrong) and now YOU type 'rpn' ??


What? I'm allowed to brag about that! ;-)

For the type of calculations I used to do all the time, it really is a
brilliant improvement over the standard method. For ladies balancing
checkbooks, it matters little.

(And sorry if "ladies" is sexist!)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #64  
Old November 12th 19, 11:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Patent updates

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 7:34:40 AM UTC, wrote:

I still have a slide ruler somewhere for nostalgic reasons but I (still) use fountain pens to write and I have a HP '2.5 ENTER 3 x' calculator (hp11c) for 35 years. These also never get 'borrowed'.


I still have a 6in Pickett in a saddle leather sheath; it's okay for doing quick statistical checks, though it's original purpose was merely to shut up people in boardrooms while I thought: I'd slide it a little, and then point it at someone talking, and wait for him to shut up; I did the actual work on an Olivetti Programma 101/203, which were the first "personal computers", or a big stick rotary rule. And I sometimes still wear my old flying watch which has a rotary navigation slide rule around the bezels:
http://coolmainpress.com/andrejutewatches.html#Navihawk

Andre Jute
Toolfondler
  #65  
Old November 12th 19, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Patent updates

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 12:03:40 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/12/2019 2:34 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 12:19:32 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 2:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 12:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process. But I
believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair.
Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the
time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two
or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required.
But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair
naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver
color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing
internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a
decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually likely
that most buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about
the downsides of internal cables. I suspect that most of
them will never ride the bikes enough to need cable
replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their bikes at
the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal with
any of the possible frustrations. So their thinking will be
limited to a subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of
inconvenience for aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's
car every Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike color.
Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair
dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the
current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would praise
beauty salons as a place of community, where frequent
meetings lead to personal interaction, friendships and
relationships. The author says we need more places like
that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel illustrating
the same thing, centered in a small town barber shop.


"people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos. "

pffft.
My 2d tattoo[1], $20 in 1973, had been a great value[2].
Name something you bought for $20 in 1973 you still own,
let alone enjoy.

The main inconvenience of tattoos, I've been told, is the
pain. My wife has a fascination with them and often asks
people about theirs. The most frequent answer to her "Did it
hurt?" is "YES!" Some then say "It was worth it." (One said
"What can I say? I was stupid.")

But whether you like having it or not is not the point. My
point was, you probably went though the pain for aesthetic
purposes.

As to what I own from that era: How about my K&E Deci-Lon
slide rule? (Sorry, I don't recall its 1966 price.) In my
desk drawer six inches from my knee. A functional tool, as
well as a thing of geeky beauty! ;-)

I'm also looking at a nice German air rifle, bought used in
about '73. It may soon have an appointment with the squirrel
I see trying to get to the bird feeder.

One of my earliest vinyl record purchases is still here and
brought out occasionally. _Medieval Roots_ by New York Pro
Musica. Still beautiful and exotic.

Other purely aesthetic objects from 1973? I can't think of
one right now - probably because my tastes have changed.
That's why I don't get tattoos.


You're a wise man of excellent taste, Frank. We have the
same slide rule of the same age, Never needs batteries and
no one ever 'borrows' it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I still have a slide ruler somewhere for nostalgic reasons but I (still) use fountain pens to write and I have a HP '2.5 ENTER 3 x' calculator (hp11c) for 35 years. These also never get 'borrowed'.


I wish I had my 11C. It disappeared, along with my briefcase, when I was
doing some work at a local company. We suspected the temporary employee
of a cleaning company.

Sad thing is, the guy would never get any use out of it. He wouldn't
figure out the RPN.

The company bought me an HP 32SII as a replacement, but I don't like it
as well as the 11C. It matters little, I suppose. I mostly use an HP-48
these days.


A bit off topic bit but does anybody know where the term "Reverse
Polish Notation" originated? One assumes that if there is a "reverse"
than there must be a "normal" also, although I never heard it used :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #66  
Old November 13th 19, 12:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Patent updates

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 12:03:40 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 11/12/2019 2:34 AM, wrote:


You're a wise man of excellent taste, Frank. We have the same slide
rule of the same age, Never needs batteries and no one ever 'borrows'
it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I still have a slide ruler somewhere for nostalgic reasons but I
(still) use fountain pens to write and I have a HP '2.5 ENTER 3 x'
calculator (hp11c) for 35 years. These also never get 'borrowed'.


I wish I had my 11C. It disappeared, along with my briefcase, when I was
doing some work at a local company. We suspected the temporary employee
of a cleaning company.

Sad thing is, the guy would never get any use out of it. He wouldn't
figure out the RPN.

The company bought me an HP 32SII as a replacement, but I don't like it
as well as the 11C. It matters little, I suppose. I mostly use an HP-48
these days.


25c, 18c and now 48G which resides in the top desktop draw and the others
in the garage.
My six slide rules also reside in the bottom desktop draw and before
anyone asks Six?, The Royal and a Hemi were my first and second slide
rules(basic and log-log-log-etc) and I picked up four specialist
electrical/electronic slide rules at clearence prices when the Uni shop
cleared stock. Speculative at the time, but I've used them for earning
the dollars and hobby work over the years.

Yep, "RPN" was always a fun topic and a continual good reason to not loan
klutzs my calculator.

  #67  
Old November 13th 19, 01:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Patent updates

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 05:51:05 +0700, John B. wrote:


A bit off topic bit but does anybody know where the term "Reverse Polish
Notation" originated? One assumes that if there is a "reverse" than
there must be a "normal" also, although I never heard it used :-)


Yep, it is the reverse of polish notation.
Polish notation being operator, number, number, and
RPN being number, number, operator/operand,
or in the HP world where you load the stack
Enter Y, Enter X, Select Operator.
So, your actions effectivel follow RPN.

  #68  
Old November 13th 19, 02:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Patent updates

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:00:21 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 05:51:05 +0700, John B. wrote:


A bit off topic bit but does anybody know where the term "Reverse Polish
Notation" originated? One assumes that if there is a "reverse" than
there must be a "normal" also, although I never heard it used :-)


Yep, it is the reverse of polish notation.
Polish notation being operator, number, number, and
RPN being number, number, operator/operand,
or in the HP world where you load the stack
Enter Y, Enter X, Select Operator.
So, your actions effectivel follow RPN.


But where did the term come from? Do Polish people, for some reason,
count their small change that way?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #69  
Old November 13th 19, 02:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Patent updates

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:00:21 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 05:51:05 +0700, John B. wrote:


A bit off topic bit but does anybody know where the term "Reverse Polish
Notation" originated? One assumes that if there is a "reverse" than
there must be a "normal" also, although I never heard it used :-)


Yep, it is the reverse of polish notation.
Polish notation being operator, number, number, and
RPN being number, number, operator/operand,
or in the HP world where you load the stack
Enter Y, Enter X, Select Operator.
So, your actions effectivel follow RPN.


But where did the term come from? Do Polish people, for some reason,
count their small change that way?
--
cheers,


The guy that invented it was polish. Jan someone. Did you lose your
google button?

  #70  
Old November 13th 19, 02:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Patent updates

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 01:08:32 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:00:21 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 05:51:05 +0700, John B. wrote:


A bit off topic bit but does anybody know where the term "Reverse Polish
Notation" originated? One assumes that if there is a "reverse" than
there must be a "normal" also, although I never heard it used :-)

Yep, it is the reverse of polish notation.
Polish notation being operator, number, number, and
RPN being number, number, operator/operand,
or in the HP world where you load the stack
Enter Y, Enter X, Select Operator.
So, your actions effectivel follow RPN.


But where did the term come from? Do Polish people, for some reason,
count their small change that way?
--
cheers,


The guy that invented it was polish. Jan someone. Did you lose your
google button?


I don't google everything :-) I had assumed that those using the term
might know the origins.
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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