Cyclists and pedestrians in LA

http://ktla.com/2018/04/11/1-person-...n-crash-video/

Video is dramatic.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Video is dramatic.

Never been to LA; looking at this and related articles it seems that
similar rageful inidents are on the upswing. We've had an increase in
car-pedestrian collisions locally. I am not sure if we've seenthe same
intentional harming by drivers but there have been a number of
well-publicized hit-and-runs. A few years ago a law was passed
requiring drivers to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, whether marked
as such or not. When walking I find that feels much less safe because
some cars stop and some don't. The law was well-intentioned and aimed
at reducing injuries, but it seems to have had the opposite effect.

There's been something of an upswing in car-pedestrian injuries in
particular. Car-bike injuries are less frequent and it's harder to
identify trends with (thankfully) few data points- just one such
accident increases or decreases the numbers by 20-25%. Good if we can
keep it that way.

https://tinyurl.com/stpaulcar-ped-bike

Looking at the LA story, it seems as though the driver left the scene
and then came back, speeding through a red light and striking the victim
as well as nearly striking others. Does that make it intentional under
the law (vehicular assault or something like that)? I know nothing
about California law.

I also question the vigil blocking the public throughfare. Seems to me
that the point of the vigil could be made without that. Dunno, I guess
I am inclined to support civil disobedience rather than civil
disruption. We had some of that a couple of years ago with a prolonged
Black Lives Matter protest in front of the governor's mansion. That was
fine and I thought effective as well (although I know many people who
were annoyed by it and thought it should have been suppressed after a
day or two, which I didn't understand- it's the protesters' time to do
with as they choose); subsequently blocking an interstate highway in
protest was not (that highway has a troublesome history within the local
black community, so I get why the action was taken but IMHO it was not
helpful to their cause to do so).

On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Video is dramatic.

Never been to LA; looking at this and related articles it seems that
similar rageful inidents are on the upswing. We've had an increase in
car-pedestrian collisions locally. I am not sure if we've seenthe same
intentional harming by drivers but there have been a number of
well-publicized hit-and-runs. A few years ago a law was passed
requiring drivers to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, whether marked
as such or not. When walking I find that feels much less safe because
some cars stop and some don't. The law was well-intentioned and aimed
at reducing injuries, but it seems to have had the opposite effect.

There's been something of an upswing in car-pedestrian injuries in
particular. Car-bike injuries are less frequent and it's harder to
identify trends with (thankfully) few data points- just one such
accident increases or decreases the numbers by 20-25%. Good if we can
keep it that way.

https://tinyurl.com/stpaulcar-ped-bike

Looking at the LA story, it seems as though the driver left the scene
and then came back, speeding through a red light and striking the victim
as well as nearly striking others. Does that make it intentional under
the law (vehicular assault or something like that)? I know nothing
about California law.

I also question the vigil blocking the public throughfare. Seems to me
that the point of the vigil could be made without that. Dunno, I guess
I am inclined to support civil disobedience rather than civil
disruption. We had some of that a couple of years ago with a prolonged
Black Lives Matter protest in front of the governor's mansion. That was
fine and I thought effective as well (although I know many people who
were annoyed by it and thought it should have been suppressed after a
day or two, which I didn't understand- it's the protesters' time to do
with as they choose); subsequently blocking an interstate highway in
protest was not (that highway has a troublesome history within the local
black community, so I get why the action was taken but IMHO it was not
helpful to their cause to do so).



Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own
new problems:

https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says

not just in Minnesota either!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 14:55:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

Video is dramatic.

snip my blather


Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new
problems:

https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says

not just in Minnesota either!

Some of that is evident on the local bike trails here. People in
tri-bike training mode on the aero, road race training mode, a very few
e-bikes. The speed limit on most of the trails is 10 mph, if you're
going faster you're supposed to be in the street (although quite a few
miles of trails have no adjacent street).

So with that, and with the 8-mph-four-abreast riders and the wobbly
drunks and the wobbly little 'uns, there are frequently frayed tempers
and harsh words on the not-so-Minnesota-nice trails.

My firsthand experience of last summer is one I hope to never repeat!

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 11:41:04 PM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 14:55:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

Video is dramatic.

snip my blather


Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new
problems:

https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says

not just in Minnesota either!

Some of that is evident on the local bike trails here. People in
tri-bike training mode on the aero, road race training mode, a very few
e-bikes. The speed limit on most of the trails is 10 mph, if you're
going faster you're supposed to be in the street (although quite a few
miles of trails have no adjacent street).

So with that, and with the 8-mph-four-abreast riders and the wobbly
drunks and the wobbly little 'uns, there are frequently frayed tempers
and harsh words on the not-so-Minnesota-nice trails.

My firsthand experience of last summer is one I hope to never repeat!

I was at a public meeting recently where a person who walks on a local MUP
(a wide one, actually a roadway that was closed) asked if there could be
painted stripes to separate peds from cyclists, because the cyclists often
pass too closely. The officials who were present nodded thoughtfully and
said they'd consider it. (I doubt they really will.)

The bicyclists who were present said nothing. But we know that peds are at
fault as often as cyclists. Some walk close to the edge, but some walk almost
on the painted center line, meaning it's tricky to choose which side to pass.
Many have earbuds and are thus functionally deaf. Some walk four or five
abreast. Many have dogs on long leashes. Many change direction suddenly and
without warning.

But there is no way of imposing orderly behavior on pedestrians, and I don't
believe we should try. I figure walking is the ultimate in "grandfathered"
behavior. The mistake here is reckoning that cyclists and peds will mix easily and well.

And I recognize the tempting analogy with cars & bikes. But segregated ped
facilities can work, largely because peds can easily see 360 degrees and can
stop or turn instantaneously. Bikes have much more limited maneuverability and
much longer stopping distances, not to mention far higher potential speeds.
Bikes must be treated as vehicles; and once that happens, bike segregation can't
work well where there are intersections, unless immense fortunes are spent on
exotic designs, or unless the culture accepts serious travel delay from
dedicated green light phases.

Most of what I wrote is about peds vs. bikes, but it's true that some of the
same conflicts exist between faster and slower cyclists. IME the slower ones
are the least predictable. But those are the same ones who would be least
likely, or least capable of, obeying stricter rules.

Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?" Sadly, I'm not optimistic.

- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?" Sadly, I'm not
optimistic.

If we could, we would. Peace is easier and cheaper than conflict.

As one of the vets in Ken Burns's "Vietnam" documentary series pointed
out, "we're not the dominant species on this planet because we're nice."

On 4/13/2018 12:57 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

There's been something of an upswing in car-pedestrian injuries in
particular. Car-bike injuries are less frequent and it's harder to
identify trends with (thankfully) few data points- just one such
accident increases or decreases the numbers by 20-25%. Good if we can
keep it that way.

https://tinyurl.com/stpaulcar-ped-bike

So 36 pedestrian injuries plus one pedestrian fatality, vs. 4 cyclist
injuries and no fatalities.

Yet lots of people are afraid to ride a bike, and almost none are afraid
to walk.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:53:21 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

So 36 pedestrian injuries plus one pedestrian fatality, vs. 4 cyclist
injuries and no fatalities.

Yet lots of people are afraid to ride a bike, and almost none are afraid
to walk.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Similar. The murderous Second Amendment gun nuts could also say the vast majority of gun deaths in the USA are from suicide. NOT from the murderous Chicago gangsters murdering the good, saintly caucasians on their way to church every day. There are twice, double, 200% as many people killed by guns from suicide than murdered by guns. But we must have guns to protect ourselves from the murderous thugs, despite there is twice, double, 200% as much chance that you, your wife, child will put the gun in their mouth and blow their head off.

On 4/13/2018 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:53:21 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

So 36 pedestrian injuries plus one pedestrian fatality, vs. 4 cyclist
injuries and no fatalities.

Yet lots of people are afraid to ride a bike, and almost none are afraid
to walk.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Similar. The murderous Second Amendment gun nuts could also say the vast majority of gun deaths in the USA are from suicide. NOT from the murderous Chicago gangsters murdering the good, saintly caucasians on their way to church every day. There are twice, double, 200% as many people killed by guns from suicide than murdered by guns. But we must have guns to protect ourselves from the murderous thugs, despite there is twice, double, 200% as much chance that you, your wife, child will put the gun in their mouth and blow their head off.


uh, crime mostly stays within the neighborhood and generally
does not cross ethnic lines (although naturally outliers
sell newspapers)

in re Chicago specifically
https://heyjackass.com/

Meanwhile 100 million+ law abiding armed citizens passed yet
another day uneventfully.

Anyone ever charged with felon in possession or other crimes
of illegal firearms in Chicago? Almost never, despite
strict, perhaps unconstitutional, barriers against the law
abiding citizens defending themselves.

(you're on your own with suicide I have no opinion and just
don't care)

Oh by the way Chicago had roughly as meany deaths by Heroin
as gunshots in 2016 and 2017. Wanna ban Heroin? Oh, right
we're working on that- for the past 100 years or so. Stay tuned.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:


Oh by the way Chicago had roughly as meany deaths by Heroin
as gunshots in 2016 and 2017. Wanna ban Heroin? Oh, right
we're working on that- for the past 100 years or so. Stay tuned.

So do you want heroin to be legally sold in groceries? Or what?

- Frank Krygowski