#21
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ITS SPRING !!
Andrew Price wrote:
I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all those whizzing cars and trucks. You are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it! |
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#22
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On Sun, 18 May 2008 19:02:30 GMT, wizardB wrote:
Andrew Price wrote: I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all those whizzing cars and trucks. You Err, no - *I* didn't make that point - it was Chalo. I suggest you go back and read the thread again, more carefully, this time. are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it! Whether you're right or wrong, to me that's irrelevant, too - I don't live in North America. |
#23
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ITS SPRING !!
wizardB wrote:
Andrew Price wrote: I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all those whizzing cars and trucks. You are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it! The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo. If entrenched interests suppress the development of transportation alternatives long enough, we will be stuck with cars we can no longer afford to run, feeble battery-electric vehicles that most working people can't afford to buy, and expensive and rudimentary public transit. Those of us who already ride bikes will have a relative mobility advantage, along with cleaner air to breathe and quieter streets to ride on. Chalo |
#24
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ITS SPRING !!
Andrew Price wrote:
I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all those whizzing cars and trucks. wizardB wrote: You are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it! Chalo wrote: The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo. If entrenched interests suppress the development of transportation alternatives long enough, we will be stuck with cars we can no longer afford to run, feeble battery-electric vehicles that most working people can't afford to buy, and expensive and rudimentary public transit. Those of us who already ride bikes will have a relative mobility advantage, along with cleaner air to breathe and quieter streets to ride on. By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch). -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#25
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"A Muzi" wrote in message
... By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch). Andy, you have to wonder what's going on in the minds of people who believe they're environmentalists when you actually know what's going on. |
#26
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ITS SPRING !!
A Muzi wrote:
Chalo wrote: The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo. By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch). Yep, that's a fine example. I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so with the blessings of the government. By the time 6000-pound cars can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute them. I think we'll see people try them, and relatively high- performance battery-electric vehicles, before resigning themselves to something less convenient but also less expensive. I don't know what exactly that will be, but I expect a mix of low-speed microcars, scooters, bikes (both the regular kind and power-assisted), electric transit, electric taxis, and a whole lot more walking than most of us are accustomed to. Chalo |
#27
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ITS SPRING !!
"Chalo" wrote in message
... I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so with the blessings of the government. You don't understand the free trade system? IF people want large cars the builders should build them. The government should stay entirely out of this. By the time 6000-pound cars can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute them. I can't help what you believe will happen in the future especially when it portrays absolutely no likelihood. We will see towns and cities compressing and public transport becoming more popular just as it was pre-1930's. |
#28
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ITS SPRING !!
In article
, Chalo wrote: A Muzi wrote: Chalo wrote: The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo. By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch). Yep, that's a fine example. I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so with the blessings of the government. By the time 6000-pound cars can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute them. I think we'll see people try them, and relatively high- performance battery-electric vehicles, before resigning themselves to something less convenient but also less expensive. I don't know what exactly that will be, but I expect a mix of low-speed microcars, scooters, bikes (both the regular kind and power-assisted), electric transit, electric taxis, and a whole lot more walking than most of us are accustomed to. Chalo Well, 1500 pound cars exist all over the world right now, and many are being developed even as we speak (Volkswagen Up!, Tata Nano, many kei-class cars). I think the Smart Fortwo is the only 1600-pound car that anyone is even trying to sell in America. Even a Lotus Elise weighs more. That said, you won't even really find kei cars in Europe, though they generally tend to have a lot more of the small cars and a few sub-compact sizes that basically don't exist in North America (small cars with 1-litre engines like the Hyundai Atos). But it's very hard to build a car that small and still meet most of the US safety regulations. The Smart succeeds, but it is more of a comical parody of a practical car than anything else. If you're going to have so little luggage space, why not just ride a motorcycle? -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
#29
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ITS SPRING !!
On May 18, 11:56*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"A Muzi" wrote in message ... By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch). Andy, you have to wonder what's going on in the minds of people who believe they're environmentalists when you actually know what's going on. seriously. some people just don't look at the big picture. I don't know how many times I've heard "I bought a new car and I really like that it's environmentally friendly." I used to try to explain that the most environmentally friendly car was one that was already built; now I just smile and nod because usually they just wouldn't get it and thought I was a nutcase. nate |
#30
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ITS SPRING !!
On May 19, 1:20*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article , *Chalo wrote: A Muzi wrote: Chalo wrote: The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. *When driving cars no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. *I believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo. By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch). Yep, that's a fine example. I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so with the blessings of the government. *By the time 6000-pound cars can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute them. *I think we'll see people try them, and relatively high- performance battery-electric vehicles, before resigning themselves to something less convenient but also less expensive. *I don't know what exactly that will be, but I expect a mix of low-speed microcars, scooters, bikes (both the regular kind and power-assisted), electric transit, electric taxis, and a whole lot more walking than most of us are accustomed to. Chalo Well, 1500 pound cars exist all over the world right now, and many are being developed even as we speak (Volkswagen Up!, Tata Nano, many kei-class cars). I think the Smart Fortwo is the only 1600-pound car that anyone is even trying to sell in America. Even a Lotus Elise weighs more. That said, you won't even really find kei cars in Europe, though they generally tend to have a lot more of the small cars and a few sub-compact sizes that basically don't exist in North America (small cars with 1-litre engines like the Hyundai Atos). But it's very hard to build a car that small and still meet most of the US safety regulations. The Smart succeeds, but it is more of a comical parody of a practical car than anything else. If by "succeeds" you mean "is smaller than but not more economical than existing more conventional vehicles" then yes, it does. If you're going to have so little luggage space, why not just ride a motorcycle? Indeed. Unfortunately I think that at least in this area people are too afraid to ride motorcycles because motorists just don't pay attention. Likewise with cycling on public roads. Plus, you need an extra endorsement on your license to legally ride a motorcycle, which is a PITA if you didn't get it when you first got your license (if you had parents like mine, you didn't. I've been meaning to rectify that but just haven't gotten around to it.) nate |
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