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ITS SPRING !!



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 18th 08, 08:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
wizardB
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Posts: 139
Default ITS SPRING !!

Andrew Price wrote:

I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all
those whizzing cars and trucks.

You are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel
will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the
automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the
guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts
from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely
on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it!
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  #22  
Old May 18th 08, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andrew Price
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Posts: 828
Default ITS SPRING !!

On Sun, 18 May 2008 19:02:30 GMT, wizardB wrote:

Andrew Price wrote:

I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all
those whizzing cars and trucks.


You


Err, no - *I* didn't make that point - it was Chalo. I suggest you go
back and read the thread again, more carefully, this time.

are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel
will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the
automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the
guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts
from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely
on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it!


Whether you're right or wrong, to me that's irrelevant, too - I don't
live in North America.
  #23  
Old May 19th 08, 03:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default ITS SPRING !!

wizardB wrote:

Andrew Price wrote:

I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all
those whizzing cars and trucks.


You are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel
will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the
automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the
guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts
from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely
on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it!


The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars
no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I
believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it
takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be
a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the
amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo.

If entrenched interests suppress the development of transportation
alternatives long enough, we will be stuck with cars we can no longer
afford to run, feeble battery-electric vehicles that most working
people can't afford to buy, and expensive and rudimentary public
transit. Those of us who already ride bikes will have a relative
mobility advantage, along with cleaner air to breathe and quieter
streets to ride on.

Chalo
  #24  
Old May 19th 08, 03:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
A Muzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,551
Default ITS SPRING !!

Andrew Price wrote:
I think his point is that before long, there will no longer *be* all
those whizzing cars and trucks.


wizardB wrote:
You are completely wrong cars and trucks will never go away the fuel
will change but the American and Canadian lifestyle is based on the
automobile even if you don't drive one you rely on them whether it's the
guy that fixes your fridge the company that delivers your bike parts
from China or maybe the company that ships you your cliffe bars you rely
on them to live so they're going nowhere,Live with it!


Chalo wrote:
The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars
no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I
believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it
takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be
a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the
amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo.

If entrenched interests suppress the development of transportation
alternatives long enough, we will be stuck with cars we can no longer
afford to run, feeble battery-electric vehicles that most working
people can't afford to buy, and expensive and rudimentary public
transit. Those of us who already ride bikes will have a relative
mobility advantage, along with cleaner air to breathe and quieter
streets to ride on.


By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled
vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads
any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of
those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
  #25  
Old May 19th 08, 04:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,456
Default ITS SPRING !!

"A Muzi" wrote in message
...

By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled
vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads
any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those
huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch).


Andy, you have to wonder what's going on in the minds of people who believe
they're environmentalists when you actually know what's going on.

  #26  
Old May 19th 08, 05:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default ITS SPRING !!

A Muzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars
no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I
believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it
takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be
a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the
amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo.


By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled
vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads
any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of
those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch).


Yep, that's a fine example.

I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in
their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so
with the blessings of the government. By the time 6000-pound cars
can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound
petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically
useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute
them. I think we'll see people try them, and relatively high-
performance battery-electric vehicles, before resigning themselves to
something less convenient but also less expensive. I don't know what
exactly that will be, but I expect a mix of low-speed microcars,
scooters, bikes (both the regular kind and power-assisted), electric
transit, electric taxis, and a whole lot more walking than most of us
are accustomed to.

Chalo
  #27  
Old May 19th 08, 06:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,456
Default ITS SPRING !!

"Chalo" wrote in message
...

I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in
their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so
with the blessings of the government.


You don't understand the free trade system? IF people want large cars the
builders should build them. The government should stay entirely out of this.

By the time 6000-pound cars
can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound
petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically
useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute
them.


I can't help what you believe will happen in the future especially when it
portrays absolutely no likelihood.

We will see towns and cities compressing and public transport becoming more
popular just as it was pre-1930's.

  #28  
Old May 19th 08, 06:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ryan Cousineau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,044
Default ITS SPRING !!

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

A Muzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. When driving cars
no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. I
believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it
takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be
a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the
amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo.


By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled
vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads
any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of
those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch).


Yep, that's a fine example.

I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in
their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so
with the blessings of the government. By the time 6000-pound cars
can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound
petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically
useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute
them. I think we'll see people try them, and relatively high-
performance battery-electric vehicles, before resigning themselves to
something less convenient but also less expensive. I don't know what
exactly that will be, but I expect a mix of low-speed microcars,
scooters, bikes (both the regular kind and power-assisted), electric
transit, electric taxis, and a whole lot more walking than most of us
are accustomed to.

Chalo


Well, 1500 pound cars exist all over the world right now, and many are
being developed even as we speak (Volkswagen Up!, Tata Nano, many
kei-class cars).

I think the Smart Fortwo is the only 1600-pound car that anyone is even
trying to sell in America. Even a Lotus Elise weighs more.

That said, you won't even really find kei cars in Europe, though they
generally tend to have a lot more of the small cars and a few
sub-compact sizes that basically don't exist in North America (small
cars with 1-litre engines like the Hyundai Atos).

But it's very hard to build a car that small and still meet most of the
US safety regulations. The Smart succeeds, but it is more of a comical
parody of a practical car than anything else. If you're going to have so
little luggage space, why not just ride a motorcycle?

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #29  
Old May 19th 08, 06:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
N8N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 836
Default ITS SPRING !!

On May 18, 11:56*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"A Muzi" wrote in message

...



By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled
vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads
any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of those
huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch).


Andy, you have to wonder what's going on in the minds of people who believe
they're environmentalists when you actually know what's going on.


seriously. some people just don't look at the big picture. I don't
know how many times I've heard "I bought a new car and I really like
that it's environmentally friendly." I used to try to explain that
the most environmentally friendly car was one that was already built;
now I just smile and nod because usually they just wouldn't get it and
thought I was a nutcase.

nate
  #30  
Old May 19th 08, 06:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
N8N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 836
Default ITS SPRING !!

On May 19, 1:20*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article
,





*Chalo wrote:
A Muzi wrote:


Chalo wrote:

The American lifestyle used to be based on horses. *When driving cars
no longer makes sense, then we will learn another way of life. *I
believe the inflection point has already arrived, and the time it
takes to switch to another predominant mode of transportation will be
a function of the amount of government corruption multiplied by the
amount to which corporate business clings to the status quo.


By corrupt, do you refer to the aggregate regulations which have doubled
vehicle weight, halved mpg and effectively banned from the public roads
any practical new 1200~1600lb passenger motor vehicle? I see more of
those huge living-room-sized monstrosities now (yecch).


Yep, that's a fine example.


I believe that both car manufacturers and car buyers will persist in
their folly until there is no way to continue, and they will do so
with the blessings of the government. *By the time 6000-pound cars
can't be run because fuel is too scarce and expensive, 1500-pound
petroleum-fueled cars probably won't work either-- their economically
useful lifespan won't be worth the cost to develop and distribute
them. *I think we'll see people try them, and relatively high-
performance battery-electric vehicles, before resigning themselves to
something less convenient but also less expensive. *I don't know what
exactly that will be, but I expect a mix of low-speed microcars,
scooters, bikes (both the regular kind and power-assisted), electric
transit, electric taxis, and a whole lot more walking than most of us
are accustomed to.


Chalo


Well, 1500 pound cars exist all over the world right now, and many are
being developed even as we speak (Volkswagen Up!, Tata Nano, many
kei-class cars).

I think the Smart Fortwo is the only 1600-pound car that anyone is even
trying to sell in America. Even a Lotus Elise weighs more.

That said, you won't even really find kei cars in Europe, though they
generally tend to have a lot more of the small cars and a few
sub-compact sizes that basically don't exist in North America (small
cars with 1-litre engines like the Hyundai Atos).

But it's very hard to build a car that small and still meet most of the
US safety regulations. The Smart succeeds, but it is more of a comical
parody of a practical car than anything else.


If by "succeeds" you mean "is smaller than but not more economical
than existing more conventional vehicles" then yes, it does.

If you're going to have so
little luggage space, why not just ride a motorcycle?


Indeed. Unfortunately I think that at least in this area people are
too afraid to ride motorcycles because motorists just don't pay
attention. Likewise with cycling on public roads. Plus, you need an
extra endorsement on your license to legally ride a motorcycle, which
is a PITA if you didn't get it when you first got your license (if you
had parents like mine, you didn't. I've been meaning to rectify that
but just haven't gotten around to it.)

nate
 




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