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#11
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Technically not legal to be riding with. Motorists would not necessarily know whether you'd be coming or going. Flashing red works very well. I am always glad to see cyclists use flashing lights even during the day when I am driving in a car (I do that also when on my bicycles). With a bright enough LED you can spot them 14mi to 1/2mi in the distance and prepare yourself well in time to pass or slow down. On my road bike I also use a flashing front light because that lamp has much less than 100 lumens. With that it's fairly worthless as a driving light at night unless I slow down to 10mph. On the mountain bike I leave the front light on steady, in traffic also during the day. Because it's very bright and I really notice the reduction in incursions into my path. Still looking for a bigger light there, 1000 lumens or so, for trail riding in the dark which I'll have to do soon. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#12
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On 10/14/2014 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. It can work the other way too. A driver will cut off a fast-moving bicycle because he or she believes that since it's a bicycle coming it must be traveling at 5MPH, not 25MPH. When I started using good lights that were such that it was not possible to tell what was coming, I got cut off far less often than when I was using poor lights. The daytime flasher makes a ginormous difference in terms of being cut off when going straight across an intersection when the motor vehicle is turning left in front of you. What is most amusing is so many drivers don't use a left turn signal unless they see a vehicle across the intersection. These intersections can be across six lanes of traffic plus a median. As soon as they see the flashing front light suddenly the turn signal goes on. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. There is no lack of consensus. It does not have to be unanimous for it to be considered consensus. There are a few people that are just saying that there is no proof because they don't want to look at, or believe, the proof. Also, what's very instructive is to look at who insists that there is no advantage to a flashing front daytime light. If Frank says that there is no advantage then you can take it to the bank that there is a big advantage. |
#13
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
sms wrote:
On 10/14/2014 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote: snip You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. It can work the other way too. A driver will cut off a fast-moving bicycle because he or she believes that since it's a bicycle coming it must be traveling at 5MPH, not 25MPH. When I started using good lights that were such that it was not possible to tell what was coming, I got cut off far less often than when I was using poor lights. Works from the front. My MTB light is quite bright and I guess people think it must be a bigger vehicle. It has a flash mode as well but I don't use that anymore because it almost caused some car drivers to do a panic stop, maybe thinking it was some sort of police vehicle. The daytime flasher makes a ginormous difference in terms of being cut off when going straight across an intersection when the motor vehicle is turning left in front of you. What is most amusing is so many drivers don't use a left turn signal unless they see a vehicle across the intersection. These intersections can be across six lanes of traffic plus a median. As soon as they see the flashing front light suddenly the turn signal goes on. Since I have that front flash on my road bike and the bright steady light on my MTB that rarely happens anymore. With me it wasn't so much left-turn candidate but people pulling out of side roads or parking lots. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. There is no lack of consensus. It does not have to be unanimous for it to be considered consensus. There are a few people that are just saying that there is no proof because they don't want to look at, or believe, the proof. Also, what's very instructive is to look at who insists that there is no advantage to a flashing front daytime light. If Frank says that there is no advantage then you can take it to the bank that there is a big advantage. Well, I judge by what I noticed as a car driver and there a flashing rear light proved to be a huge advantage. So that will now be my mode of operation. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#14
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On 15/10/14 06:19, Joerg wrote:
Works from the front. My MTB light is quite bright and I guess people think it must be a bigger vehicle. It has a flash mode as well but I don't use that anymore because it almost caused some car drivers to do a panic stop, maybe thinking it was some sort of police vehicle. I was stopped by a policeman one night. He thought I was on a motorcycle because my headlight - a home brewed LED light powered by a Sanyo roller dynamo - was so bright. -- JS |
#15
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
this rig pulled into our driveway under a cloudy sky in daylight on the hood of a large Jeep Commander with wheels off course....very natty space achine...new. The snowbirds are here.
https://www.google.com/#q=rigid+led+...:pd&tb m=shop a long bar 2 led high at windshield base a shorter bar up ahead, with 2 small cubes each sdide fpor t=turning lights. Driver turned it on. Lit the area between and my truck at 75 feet, mayb .5 more than natural. Very broad effective swath of light where the Hell's on my truck's roof are narrow beams for the berm. Clearly if I need more light then Led is the way with less power consumption. |
#16
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 1:07:30 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Technically not legal to be riding with. Motorists would not necessarily know whether you'd be coming or going. Flashing red works very well. I am always glad to see cyclists use flashing lights even during the day when I am driving in a car (I do that also when on my bicycles). With a bright enough LED you can spot them 14mi to 1/2mi in the distance and prepare yourself well in time to pass or slow down. On my road bike I also use a flashing front light because that lamp has much less than 100 lumens. With that it's fairly worthless as a driving light at night unless I slow down to 10mph. On the mountain bike I leave the front light on steady, in traffic also during the day. Because it's very bright and I really notice the reduction in incursions into my path. Still looking for a bigger light there, 1000 lumens or so, for trail riding in the dark which I'll have to do soon. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ ..... I experimented with a6" diameter dayglo circle on front bar. l993 ? Town here has Fed/State road planning avoiding and enhancing the tourist/retiree experience...where a lot of the East coast is diffiu=cult antique roadsystems based on greed not traffic stats and engineering. So we have Blvd with long sight lines. The single dot improved my security, the Sheriff told me tis was good and that I went from invisible to visible at 1/4 mile. Here we have J's insight factored up with older nervous systems I a strange place. In 1993 dayglo was very avant-garde, almost unknown and reputedly the province of gay men. |
#17
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 11:03:00 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/14/2014 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote: snip You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. It can work the other way too. A driver will cut off a fast-moving bicycle because he or she believes that since it's a bicycle coming it must be traveling at 5MPH, not 25MPH. When I started using good lights that were such that it was not possible to tell what was coming, I got cut off far less often than when I was using poor lights. The daytime flasher makes a ginormous difference in terms of being cut off when going straight across an intersection when the motor vehicle is turning left in front of you. What is most amusing is so many drivers don't use a left turn signal unless they see a vehicle across the intersection. These intersections can be across six lanes of traffic plus a median. As soon as they see the flashing front light suddenly the turn signal goes on. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. There is no lack of consensus. It does not have to be unanimous for it to be considered consensus. There are a few people that are just saying that there is no proof because they don't want to look at, or believe, the proof. Also, what's very instructive is to look at who insists that there is no advantage to a flashing front daytime light. If Frank says that there is no advantage then you can take it to the bank that there is a big advantage. Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes, and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles -- although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers on bikes are ubiquitous. -- Jay Beattie. |
#18
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:15:19 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 11:03:00 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 10/14/2014 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote: snip You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. It can work the other way too. A driver will cut off a fast-moving bicycle because he or she believes that since it's a bicycle coming it must be traveling at 5MPH, not 25MPH. When I started using good lights that were such that it was not possible to tell what was coming, I got cut off far less often than when I was using poor lights. The daytime flasher makes a ginormous difference in terms of being cut off when going straight across an intersection when the motor vehicle is turning left in front of you. What is most amusing is so many drivers don't use a left turn signal unless they see a vehicle across the intersection. These intersections can be across six lanes of traffic plus a median. As soon as they see the flashing front light suddenly the turn signal goes on. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. There is no lack of consensus. It does not have to be unanimous for it to be considered consensus. There are a few people that are just saying that there is no proof because they don't want to look at, or believe, the proof. Also, what's very instructive is to look at who insists that there is no advantage to a flashing front daytime light. If Frank says that there is no advantage then you can take it to the bank that there is a big advantage. Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes, and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles -- although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers on bikes are ubiquitous. -- Jay Beattie. I don't know about flashers in Oregon but here in Ontario it's illegal but seldom enforced for bicycle tires to have studs on them. Cheers |
#19
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech
jbeattie wrote: Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes, and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles -- although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers on bikes are ubiquitous. -- Jay Beattie. Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states. Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit doing that. OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage trucks. Jones |
#20
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On 10/14/2014 5:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:
Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes, and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles -- although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers on bikes are ubiquitous. When I researched it for California it was unclear. However now that all the bike share bicycles include flashing lights I presume that it's not illegal even though it never explicitly says that they are legal. |
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