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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
mike anderson wrote:
After reading up about ’length of top tube’ at RBT archives on Google, I stumbled on this message: ----------------------------------------- For my money, there are only 2 important dimensions: toptube length and seattube angle. If you get those right, you can tweak everything else. No fit kit can tell you what your ideal saddle to bar drop (or rise) should be, that's all personal preference, ditto for bar width. Knowing your desired saddle to bar drop, you can avoid buying a frame that would require awkward stems or risers to get the bar height you want. A wrong toptube length is a disaster. You can fudge around it by sizing stem reach & saddle position, but that screws up weight distribution and steering response. Seattube angle sets the angle of the hips for a given bar drop. Generally, if you want your bars really low, you want a steep seattube angle or else you'll be too closed at the hip. The only dimension the fit kit needs to really help you with is toptube length, that, and your personal preference for bar height determine almost everything else. --------------------------------------------------- Can somebody tell me what the preferred seat tube angle would be for a saddle-to-bar drop of: 0cm (yes I like to have the saddle and handle bar leveled)? Seat tube angle doesn't determine where the saddle ends up... only the RANGE of fore/aft positioning possible. Most bikes have "average enough" seat tube angles that you can get the proper position by choosing the right seat post (with or without setback), and then adjusting the saddle accordingly. The seat tube angle DOES affect the "cockpit length" relative to the listed top tube length. Since the saddle's position is determined by the rider's position on the bike, it will be in the same place regardless of seat tube angle. If the bike has a steeper seat tube, that places the saddle further behind the top tube/seat tube junction, effectively lengthening the cockpit. If the seat tube is shallower, the opposite is true. Neither condition really affects the ability to get the bars up as high as you need them, however. You just need to be sure that the top tube horizontal component plus the stem's reach add up to the "cockpit length" you need. To get some info on how a stem's rise and length affect the horizontal and vertical positioning of the bars, check out my infamous stem chart at: http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $795 ti frame |
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#2
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
"mike anderson" wrote in message news:2005110201511816807%seeunderneath@mypostcom.. . After reading up about 'length of top tube' at RBT archives on Google, I stumbled on this message: ----------------------------------------- For my money, there are only 2 important dimensions: toptube length and seattube angle. If you get those right, you can tweak everything else. No fit kit can tell you what your ideal saddle to bar drop (or rise) should be, that's all personal preference, ditto for bar width. Knowing your desired saddle to bar drop, you can avoid buying a frame that would require awkward stems or risers to get the bar height you want. A wrong toptube length is a disaster. You can fudge around it by sizing stem reach & saddle position, but that screws up weight distribution and steering response. Seattube angle sets the angle of the hips for a given bar drop. Generally, if you want your bars really low, you want a steep seattube angle or else you'll be too closed at the hip. The only dimension the fit kit needs to really help you with is toptube length, that, and your personal preference for bar height determine almost everything else. --------------------------------------------------- Can somebody tell me what the preferred seat tube angle would be for a saddle-to-bar drop of: 0cm (yes I like to have the saddle and handle bar leveled)? Thanks mike anderson email: sbREMOVE46©bigREMOVEfoot.com remove REMOVE It sounds to me that you, depending on your size, would be more comfortable on a bike with a slack seat tube angle (71-73deg).. Great for climbing, long distance riding, and good stability in wet/ icy conditions. triatheletes tend toward a steeper 75+ deg angle, which typically has them forward, hunkered down over aerobars. Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz |
#3
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
After reading up about ’length of top tube’ at RBT archives on Google,
I stumbled on this message: ----------------------------------------- For my money, there are only 2 important dimensions: toptube length and seattube angle. If you get those right, you can tweak everything else. No fit kit can tell you what your ideal saddle to bar drop (or rise) should be, that's all personal preference, ditto for bar width. Knowing your desired saddle to bar drop, you can avoid buying a frame that would require awkward stems or risers to get the bar height you want. A wrong toptube length is a disaster. You can fudge around it by sizing stem reach & saddle position, but that screws up weight distribution and steering response. Seattube angle sets the angle of the hips for a given bar drop. Generally, if you want your bars really low, you want a steep seattube angle or else you'll be too closed at the hip. The only dimension the fit kit needs to really help you with is toptube length, that, and your personal preference for bar height determine almost everything else. --------------------------------------------------- Can somebody tell me what the preferred seat tube angle would be for a saddle-to-bar drop of: 0cm (yes I like to have the saddle and handle bar leveled)? Thanks mike anderson email: sbREMOVE46©bigREMOVEfoot.com remove REMOVE |
#4
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
"Laz" wrote in message ... snip Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz Why do shorter riders need steeper seat angles? Peter |
#5
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
"vesel" wrote in message ... "Laz" wrote in message ... snip Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz Why do shorter riders need steeper seat angles? Peter I think that leg length is the given reason, you must remember that crank length is fairly consistent at 170mm for most road bikes. Laz |
#6
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
"Laz" wrote in message .. . "vesel" wrote in message ... "Laz" wrote in message ... snip Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz Why do shorter riders need steeper seat angles? Peter I think that leg length is the given reason, you must remember that crank length is fairly consistent at 170mm for most road bikes. Laz I keep hearing leg length is the reason but it doesn't make sense to me. Leg length is generally in proportion to height. I am a short arse because I have short legs and a short body. So proportionally I am the same as a taller person. So why not the same seat angle. Peter |
#7
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
Dans le message de ,
vesel a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré : "Laz" wrote in message .. . "vesel" wrote in message ... "Laz" wrote in message ... snip Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz Why do shorter riders need steeper seat angles? Peter I think that leg length is the given reason, you must remember that crank length is fairly consistent at 170mm for most road bikes. Laz I keep hearing leg length is the reason but it doesn't make sense to me. Leg length is generally in proportion to height. I am a short arse because I have short legs and a short body. So proportionally I am the same as a taller person. So why not the same seat angle. Kind of simple, really. You need to have clearance for the rear wheel, and there are limits of useful variations for the bottom bracket height and chainstay lengths. Using 650 wheels allows for more play with the seat-tube angle. -- Bonne route ! Sandy Verneuil-sur-Seine FR |
#8
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
vesel wrote: "Laz" wrote in message ... snip Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz Why do shorter riders need steeper seat angles? Peter Because they generally have shorter femurs and altho not a hard constand, knee over pedal spndle is a great place to start. If the femur is short and the seat tube is slack, not able to get the KOPS, even with a no setback seat post and the saddle all the way forward. |
#9
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message oups.com... vesel wrote: "Laz" wrote in message ... snip Your size might mitigate the seat tube able preference in that if you are short in height, the seat tube angle might need to be a bit steeper; vice-versa if you happen to be tall. Laz Why do shorter riders need steeper seat angles? Peter Because they generally have shorter femurs and altho not a hard constand, knee over pedal spndle is a great place to start. If the femur is short and the seat tube is slack, not able to get the KOPS, even with a no setback seat post and the saddle all the way forward. Ok I can accept my femur may be shorter, but so is my lower leg, trunk length arm length etc. So overall all measurements are shorter. That being the case then the seat tube angle should be similar, just top tube length on standover height should change. Peter |
#10
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Bike fit: saddle-to-bar drop and seat tube angle?
vesel wrote: Ok I can accept my femur may be shorter, but so is my lower leg, trunk length arm length etc. So overall all measurements are shorter. That being the case then the seat tube angle should be similar, just top tube length on standover height should change. KOPS is knee over pedal spindle with the crank horizontal. If you follow that philosophy, *and* you use standard sized cranks (170-175mm), then you will be positioned farther forward (steeper seat angle) if you are short, and farther back if you are tall. Everything about your body may be proportional, but the cranks aren't. KOPS is really just an approximation that generally works out to a balanced position for most people... meaning that with a level seat and a normal pedalling stroke they will not tend to slide forward or back. |
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