A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Mountain Biking
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Mike Vandeman



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old November 12th 03, 07:24 PM
Q.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman


"Terri Alvillar" wrote :

The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
destruction are true.
Terri Alvillar


Many people have tried to engage Mr. Vandeman in a rational discussion based
on facts and such. It is Mr. Vandeman who initiates the personal attacks,
often within the subject line itself. Whenever someone replies to his posts
in a rational, logical, and thoughtful way, Mr. Vandeman's response is
always childish and simplistic: "LIAR!", "I AM GOD!", I AM TELLING THE
TRUTH!" and "DUH!" or words to that effect.

When someone asks who Mike Vandeman is, inevitably you must speak about his
personality, since it is the only thing that comes across on his posts.
When examining "data" you must inevitably examine the source.

I know that mountain bikes may be destructive, and when I ride I am aware of
such things ... like not going through the same mud puddle on the trail over
and over for example. However, Mr. Vandeman is an extremist without any
clue how to have a rational conversation and that is why he is so despised
on newsgroups.

If you would like to start a thread on trail damage by mountain bikers I
would welcome it, as long as you are open to discussion and behave in a
civilized, adult way. You might be surprised how many of us "evil" mountain
bikers are just as nice as you.

C.Q.C.


Ads
  #12  
Old November 12th 03, 11:03 PM
Westie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman




"Terri Alvillar" wrote in message
m...
snip
The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
destruction are true.


You know that is untrue, Terri.
I purposely stayed impersonal when I debated with him. He resorted to
name-calling.
Do a Google search in the newsgroup for our debate if you will. The
evidence is clearly there.
--
Westie
(Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)


  #13  
Old November 13th 03, 04:02 AM
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:25:57 +1300, "Westie"
wrote:

..
.."Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote in message
...
..
..
.. "Q." LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com wrote in message
.. ...
..
.. "qa2" wrote in message
.. ...
.. Who is this quack, Mike Vandeman?
..
.. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Michael J. Vandeman is
..a
.. quack. A fruit loop, if you will.
..
.. MIke vandeman is pretty hilwaqriou sif you ask me. Althoguh ehs has some
.. good point,s he dosna't really convince me that I shouldn't be riding my
.. moutain bike.
..
.. What I Afind thte most entertinintg isw his logic at times. Take a look
..ati
.. it sometimes. It has some ciruclar lgici thqait's just increibly
.. insightful, yet ocmpletely bogus.
..
.. Hey mIke,y, would it bert bettrer if I strarted riding myh omountain bikee
.. in urban settingsw? i I'ms reu Im' ntoh]urting the vironment if I'm
..riding
.. on pavemnt al thet itme,.
..
.. It6'si leepy time now. I'm knda drunk so hence the bad spelling. I'm
..sure
.. you'll fidn my message engaging aind iiiiiiiiiiiiiiinfornmativel.
.. --
.. Phil, Squid-in-Training
..
..You appear to be heading for an impressive hangover, my friend.
..
..To the OP, despite having seen the debates go around in circles time and
..time again I had a go at him about a year ago. Due in no small part to
..boredom and a morbid curiousity I suppose.
..It went around in circles and it ended with me not being able to get any
..response except "DUH!". Not bad from a guy that apparently has a PhD and
..credits mountainbikers with no intelligence. I came to my own conclusion
..that Mike really is a dork.
..It was fun for a while in a frustrating, beating your head against a brick
..wall kinda way....

Liar. You got your ass whipped.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #14  
Old November 13th 03, 04:03 AM
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

On 12 Nov 2003 07:10:49 -0800, (Terri Alvillar) wrote:

.."Q." LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com wrote in message ...
.. "qa2" wrote in message
.. ...
.. Who is this quack, Mike Vandeman?
..
.. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Michael J. Vandeman is a
.. quack. A fruit loop, if you will.
..
.. People like him are hard to understand. Did you ever have the kind of kid
.. in school, who loved getting attention by being the most obnoxious looser he
.. could be, no matter how many times her got beat up or humiliated? Mr.
.. Vandeman is that kid, just older. The deformations of his neural pathways
.. are deeply set and he may never be a normal, rational human again.
..
.. On the other hand, he may be brilliant. He may just be FOR mountain biking.
.. Using reverse psychology to unite just about everyone with an IQ above room
.. temperature Celsius against him, and by the same token assuring that anyone
.. who is against mountain biking is laughed out of existence. By playing the
.. clown, he makes the anti mountain bikers seem ridiculous and pathetic, as he
.. himself is seen.
..
.. Alas, I don't think that's what he is. He's just a disturbed human being.
.. Let's just be grateful he isn't spending all his time in a cabin with a copy
.. of mein kampf and some pipe bombs ... although that is certainly possible.
..
.. C.Q.C.
..
..
..The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
..personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
..destruction are true.
..Terri Alvillar

Careful! Telling the truth will ruin this newsgroup ... for the mountain bikers.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #15  
Old November 13th 03, 04:04 AM
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:30:23 -0600, "di" wrote:

..Personal attacks? MV is the king when it comes to that. Get used to it,
..he's a quack, nut, or whatever else you can think of. He's the type of
..person with the personality that made all the other kids threw rocks at him
..on the way from school everyday,

Never happened in my life. I don't associate with boring riff-raff like mountain
bikers.

and did not grow out of it.
..
.."Terri Alvillar" wrote in message
. com...
.. "Q." LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com wrote in message
...
.. "qa2" wrote in message
.. ...
.. Who is this quack, Mike Vandeman?
..
.. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Michael J. Vandeman is
..a
.. quack. A fruit loop, if you will.
..
.. People like him are hard to understand. Did you ever have the kind of
..kid
.. in school, who loved getting attention by being the most obnoxious
..looser he
.. could be, no matter how many times her got beat up or humiliated? Mr.
.. Vandeman is that kid, just older. The deformations of his neural
..pathways
.. are deeply set and he may never be a normal, rational human again.
..
.. On the other hand, he may be brilliant. He may just be FOR mountain
..biking.
.. Using reverse psychology to unite just about everyone with an IQ above
..room
.. temperature Celsius against him, and by the same token assuring that
..anyone
.. who is against mountain biking is laughed out of existence. By playing
..the
.. clown, he makes the anti mountain bikers seem ridiculous and pathetic,
..as he
.. himself is seen.
..
.. Alas, I don't think that's what he is. He's just a disturbed human
..being.
.. Let's just be grateful he isn't spending all his time in a cabin with a
..copy
.. of mein kampf and some pipe bombs ... although that is certainly
..possible.
..
.. C.Q.C.
..
..
.. The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
.. personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
.. destruction are true.
.. Terri Alvillar
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #16  
Old November 13th 03, 04:05 AM
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:08:58 -0600, "Jason" wrote:

..
.."Terri Alvillar" wrote in message
. com...
.. "Q." LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com wrote in message
...
.. "qa2" wrote in message
.. ...
.. The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
.. personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
.. destruction are true.
.. Terri Alvillar
..
..HAH! When I suggested that he put his talents to better use by trying to
..stop the fires in Mexico, he suggested that my wife be killed or raped!

Liar.

Now
..who is making the personal attacks. Not to mention that you are being a bit
..hypocritical with your above statement. And his arguments about mountain
..biking aren't true. They are absurd and ludicrous. I have nothing but
..contempt for MV and have every reason to feel that way. He is sick and
..evil.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #17  
Old November 13th 03, 04:10 AM
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:03:19 +1300, "Westie"
wrote:

..
..
..
.."Terri Alvillar" wrote in message
. com...
..snip
.. The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
.. personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
.. destruction are true.
..
..You know that is untrue, Terri.
..I purposely stayed impersonal when I debated with him. He resorted to
..name-calling.
..Do a Google search in the newsgroup for our debate if you will. The
..evidence is clearly there.

Try it now. Discuss this rationally, if you can:

The Effects of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People --
Why Off-Road Bicycling Should be Prohibited
Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.
May 31, 1997

Mountain biking is a relatively new sport. According to a
mountain biking (MTB) web page (http://www.mtb-bike.com), "The
commercial Mountain Bike evolution didn't start until 1974 and its
first production bikes didn't appear in stores until about 10 years
later". (Lower gearing, fat, knobby tires, sturdier construction,
but particularly the sealed bearing -- which could be ridden in
dirt without getting destroyed -- are what made "mountain" (off-
road) bicycling possible.) Partly for this reason, and partly
because the MTB is, from one point of view, just a special case of
an ORV (off-road vehicle), environmentalists and scientists have
been slow to study and recognize the special threat that the
mountain bike represents to wildlife. Although there are many
studies of ORVs, I am not aware of any solid scientific studies
specifically on MTBs and their effects on wildlife.

To most environmentalists, bicycles have always been the
epitome of good. We are so used to comparing bikes to cars, that it
never occurred to us that the bicycle would be ever used for
anything bad. Indeed, replacing motor vehicles with bicycles
deserves our adoration. But anything can be used for good or evil,
and using bikes to expand human domination of wildlife habitat is
clearly harmful.

Human beings think they own every square inch of the Earth,
and that they therefore have the right to do what they want with
it. This is, of course, absurd. It is also the reason that we are
losing species at an unforgivable rate: we have crowded wildlife
out of its habitat. Even in our parks, where we have vowed to
protect wildlife, it is not protected from hikers, equestrians,
park "managers", firefighters, mountain bikers, airplanes,
helicopters, cars, roads, concessionaires, or biologists. Thus, the
primary reason that mountain bikes are harmful to wildlife is that
they, like other technological aids (cars, skis, rafts, rock-
climbing equipment, etc.), make it much easier for people to get
into wildlife habitat.

(Sadly, most people have forgotten that the only thing that
makes parks worth visiting is the wildlife that live the it is
_____
precisely the wildlife (and paucity of humans) that make a park a
__________________________________________________ _______________
park. Without wildlife (i.e., all nonhuman, nondomesticated species
____
-- plants as well as animals), the parks would be boring piles of
bare rock.)

Biology
_______

First and most obvious, mountain bikes kill organisms that
live on and under the soil: "When it comes to pure recreational
destructiveness, ... off-road vehicles (ORVs) far surpass
powerboats. ... It is a rare environment indeed where a vehicle can
be taken off-road without damage. ... Standard ORVs with their
knobby tires are almost ideal devices for smashing plant life and
destroying soil. Even driven with extreme care, a dirt bike will
degrade about an acre of land in a twenty-mile drive. ... Not only
do the ORVs exterminate animals by exterminating plants, they
attack them directly as well. Individual animals on the surface and
in shallow burrows ... are crushed. ... One great problem with ORVs
___________________________
is that they supply easy access to wilderness areas for
__________________________________________________ _____
unsupervised people who have ... no conception of the damage they
__________________________________________________ _______________
are doing" (Ehrlich and Ehrlich, pp.169-171; emphasis added).
_________
(Although mountain bikes were hardly known when this was written,
it is obvious that the same applies to them.)


Recently, one of the largest Alameda whipsnakes (a California
threatened species) ever found was killed by a mountain biker in
Black Diamond Mines Regional Preserve near here. Others have been
killed on other East Bay regional parks. Kathryn Phillips in
Tracking the Vanishing Frogs described how ORVs crossing creeks
____________________________
crush toads and their eggs (both buried in the sand). Bikes are
generally ridden too fast to avoid killing small animals.
Obviously, the animals didn't evolve in the presence of mountain
bikes, and can't be expected to deal very effectively with such
quiet, fast-moving objects. Even hikers can kill small animals, if
they aren't careful. The one time I went to look for an Alameda
whipsnake, I almost stepped on one, which was lying in grass
growing in the trail, and didn't move until I had almost stepped on
it.

Soils are extremely complex communities of living organisms.
They sometimes are very fragile and once destroyed take decades to
be recreated (e.g. desert cryptogamic soil). Soil destruction is
hastened by acceleration (braking, speeding up, climbing, and
turning, which apply horizontal forces to the soil), by tire lugs,
which break the surface, and by water, which softens the soil and
makes it easier to demolish.

In the Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA), "park
officials noted serious erosion problems on certain steep narrow
trails and determined that restricting bicycle use would slow such
erosion. [They] noted that on narrow trails bicyclists passing
other users would either leave the trail or force the other users
off the trail to the detriment of off-trail vegetation and
wildlife. ... Downhill bicycle travel on steep slopes is usually
accompanied by braking and often by skidding which tends to push
dislodged surface gravels into ditches, water bars, and drains.
Heavy bicycle use on steep trails usually requires that these
ditches, water bars, and drains be cleared more frequently than
those used by hikers and equestrians only. ... Park staff and
visitors reported that bicyclists on these ... trails often skidded
to control their speed, slid off of trails on sharp turns, or cut
across off-trail areas at certain 'switch-backs'" (Bicycle Trails
Council of Marin v. Bruce Babbitt).

Mud containing seeds and spores sticks to bike tires, thereby
often carrying species of plants into areas where they had not
existed (becoming "exotics"). This is worsened by the fact that
bicycles travel long distances, and are often carried to distant
locations (sometimes even foreign countries) by motor vehicle. It
is well known that such exotic species can cause havoc when
introduced into new habitats.

Most of us were raised to believe that "non-consumptive"
recreation is harmless to wildlife. We are taught to enjoy
ourselves in nature, guilt-free, as long as we don't directly harm
wildlife. However, recent research, and the huge scale of current
recreation activities, have discredited this idea. "Traditionally,
observing, feeding, and photographing wildlife were considered to
be 'nonconsumptive' activities because removal of animals from
their natural habitats did not occur.... nonconsumptive wildlife
recreation was considered relatively benign in terms of its effects
on wildlife; today, however, there is a growing recognition that
wildlife-viewing recreation can have serious negative impacts on
wildlife" (Knight & Gutzwiller, p.257).

In other words, the mere presence of people is often harmful
________
to wildlife, and the more, the worse. "The notion that recreation
has no environmental impacts is no longer tenable. Recreationists
often degrade the land, water, and wildlife resources that support

their activities by simplifying plant communities, increasing
animal mortality, displacing and disturbing wildlife, and
distributing refuse" (ibid, p.3) "Recreational disturbance has
traditionally been viewed as most detrimental to wildlife during
the breeding season. Recently, it has become apparent that
disturbance outside of the animal's breeding season may have
equally severe effects" (p.73) "People have an impact on wildlife
habitat and all that depends on it, no matter what the activity"
(p.157); "Perhaps the major way that people have influenced
wildlife populations is through encroachment into wildlife areas"
(p.160). "Outdoor recreation has been recognized as an important
factor that can reduce biosphere sustainability.... Indeed,
recreational activities, including many that may seem innocuous,
can alter vertebrate behaviour, reproduction, distributions, and
habitats" (p.169).

Knight & Gutzwiller's book contains numerous specific examples
of how these negative effects are created. We may not know what the
organisms are thinking, but the effect is that they die, are forced
to expend extra energy that may be in short supply, become more
susceptible to predation, or are forced to move to less suitable
habitat, losing access to preferred foods, mates, nesting sites,
etc. Since most of us live safely in the midst of plenty, it is
hard for us to understand wildlife's predicament. We are flexible
enough to survive almost anywhere; they are not. Often they have no
other place to live. None of the existing "studies" on mountain
biking evaluate its effects on wildlife. They are usually concerned
only with visible effects on the trail. In Tilden Regional Park,
there are three separate, heavily used mountain biking trails
through the middle of supposedly protected Alameda whipsnake
habitat areas!

"Displaced animals are forced out of familiar habitat and must
then survive and reproduce in areas where they are not familiar
with the locations of food, shelter, and other vital resources....
Hammitt and Cole ... ranked displacement as being more detrimental
to wildlife than harassment or recreation-induced habitat
changes.... Densities ... of 13 breeding bird species were
negatively associated with the intensity of recreation activity by
park visitors, primarily pedestrians and cyclists" (ibid, pp.173-
4); "off-road vehicles can collapse burrows of desert mammals and
reptiles" (p.176).

Sociology
_________

Hikers, especially the elderly, have been abandoning their
favorite trails, due to bikers that scare them, hit them, harass
them, and destroy the serenity of the parks. Parks are supposed to
be a refuge from the crush of humanity and the noise, danger, and
artificiality of urban areas. Why bring to our parks the very
_______________________________
things that most people go there to escape?! There is absolutely
____________________________________________
nothing wrong with bicycling, in its proper setting (on a road). It
is a wonderfully healthful activity. But wildlife is already in
_______
danger due to loss of habitat (worldwide, one quarter of all
animals are threatend with extinction, according to the IUCN(International Union for the Conservation of Nature and Natural
Resources)). It can't afford to lose any more. And people have very
similar needs for being in nature. Our elderly are like wildlife,
in that they have nowhere else to go for the experience of nature
that they are accustomed to.

By definition, hiking trails are the minimum size necessary
for a person to hike (approx. 18 inches wide), since they are
supposed to have a minimal impact on the environment. They aren't
wide enough for a bicyclist to safely pass a hiker or another
bicyclist. Mixing bikers and hikers is dangerous for both. In fact,

mountain biking is also dangerous for lone riders, since hiking
trails don't follow a predictable pattern and have very short sight
distances (the distance that one can see ahead on the trail).
Emergency room doctors report that a large percentage of mountain
bikers incur serious accidents.

"The record includes hundreds of letters from park users
recounting stories of collisions or near misses with speeding or
reckless bicyclists on all kinds of trails but particularly on
steep and narrow trails. Hikers and bird watchers repeatedly told
how they have been forced off of trails by speeding bicycles and
how they have had their peace and solitude on the trails
interrupted by bicycles that -- because they are quiet and fast --
seemed to appear out of nowhere and be immediately upon the hikers
and other users. Equestrians told how their horses have been
startled by speeding or oncoming bicycles and have become restless,
on several occasions even throwing and injuring experienced riders.
Though most users admitted that the great majority of bicyclists
were polite and safety-conscious, letters from hikers, equestrians,
bird watchers, joggers, and other users also repeatedly recounted
incidents of rudeness, threats, and altercations when they have
complained to an offending bicyclist about dangerous conduct. Park
staff also reported having received such complaints. ... NPS's
[National Park Service's] finding that user conflict and visitor
danger would be reduced by limiting bicycle trail access in GGNRA
was supported by ample evidence. ... Notwithstanding the
responsible user, bicycles are often perceived by other users as a
disruptive influence on park trails. Although most of the few
reported bicycle accidents in the park involve only single
individuals, letters and reports from hikers and equestrians tell
of many close calls and confrontational and unsettling
experiences". "No single-track trails [in the Marin Headlands] were
found suitable for bicycle use" (Bicycle Trails Council v. Bruce
Babbitt).

Since bicycles require wider trails, parks now often use
bulldozers to create and maintain those trails, vastly increasing
their impacts. In Claremont Canyon Regional Preserve in Oakland,
California, a new trail was created by means of a "small" (6 foot
blade) bulldozer. But it rolled off the trail and had to be rescued
by a much bigger bulldozer. The existence of bicyclists on trails
also forces park rangers to police the trails using motor vehicles
(cars or motorcycles), since it is the only way they can hope to
catch them! This also increases negative impacts on wildlife.

Children learn mostly nonverbally (by watching adults and
other children). Mountain biking is bad role modeling for them,
since it teaches them that human domination and destruction of
wildlife habitat is normal and acceptable.

Mountain bikers like to claim that excluding them from trails
constitutes "discrimination". They say that other user groups
(hikers and equestrians) receive better treatment from land
managers. There is no basis for such a claim, since all users are
subject to exactly the same rules. For example, on a trail closed
to bikes, everyone is allowed on the trail -- only the bikes are
________ _____
excluded! In spite of what they claim, mountain bikers have never
______
been excluded from any trail! Even if my way of "enjoying" the
wilderness is to race my bulldozer there, I am not allowed to do
that. And this is not because land managers like hikers more than
bulldozer racers. I am not being excluded from the wilderness; I
can go there whenever I want, as long as I don't try to bring my
__________________________________
bulldozer with me. It is only the bulldozer that is excluded, which
_________________ _____
is due to its effects on wildlife and people.
____________________________________________



If mountain bikers were actually being discriminated against,
they could sue park managers for access to every trail that others
are allowed on. On the contrary, the U. S. Court of Appeals for the
Ninth Circuit (Bicycle Trails Council v. Bruce Babbitt) concluded
that the National Park Service has the right to ban bikes from
trails. "All units of the National Parks [are] to be treated
consistently, with resource protection the primary goal". "All
bicycle use of off-road areas [is] prohibited unless local park
superintendents [designate] particular trails to be open"
(bicyclists were contesting this rule). "Routes may only be
designated for bicycle use based on a written determination that
such use is consistent with the protection of the park area's
natural, scenic and aesthetic values, safety considerations and
management objectives and will not disturb wildlife or park
_________________________
resources". "The Park Service is empowered with the authority to
determine what uses of park resources are proper and what
proportion of the park's resources are available for each use".
"The use of bicycles is allowed in park areas under the same basic
__________________________________________________ _______________
conditions as are motor vehicles, i.e. on park roads, in parking
__________________________________________________ ______________
areas, and on routes designated for their use. ... certain
______________________________________________
limitations on their use are necessary and appropriate in the
interest of public safety, resource protection, and the avoidance
of visitor conflict" [emphasis added].

Clearly, bikes are not being banned from trails because land
managers like hikers and equestrians more! As people, mountain
bikers are indistinguishable from other park users. It is the bikes
_____
that we object to, and not even the bikes, but their presence in
___________
natural areas. Banning bikes is simply a humane way of protecting
_____________
our natural areas, while allowing all users equal access to enjoy
them. Thus, whether bikers or hikers or equestrians are more
harmful to wildlife (they all are, of course) is irrelevant.
___ __________
Restricting bicycle access is a way of reducing human impacts on
wildlife and wildlife habitat.

The Case of Brown's Woods
_________________________

Brown's Woods, one of the last stands of native forest in
central Iowa (southwest of DesMoines), illustrates these issues. It
was saved from logging and development in 1972 by the S. E. Polk
(High School) Ecology Club and their sponsor, biology teacher, Kirk
Brill, for which they won a national award. Motorized vehicles were
banned, "because of the threat they posed to the environment and to
persons walking there" (Wayne Bills, Polk County Conservation Board
(PCCB) Executive Director, 1972). The students worked hard to earn
money to build two miles of bike trails through the preserve.

However mountain bikers illegally built 4 1/2 additional miles
of trail ("bikers have gouged more than six miles of trail, up to
30 feet wide and a foot or more deep in spots" (Loren Lown, PCCB
Natural Resources Specialist, 1996)). Wildlife were disappearing,
elderly hikers were driven out, and vegetation was destroyed.
"Already the bikers have caused permanent irreparable damage to
this pristine area" (Ben Van Gundy, PCCB Director). It was called
"ecological vandalism". Last year, once again, Brill and his
students were forced to campaign to save the preserve, this time
from mountain bikers, and won, getting a unanimous vote of the PCCB
for a "total and permanent ban on the use of mountain bikes" in
Brown's Woods.

Millions of mountain bikes are being sold every year around
the world. Let's not wait till "bikers have caused permanent
irreparable damage" to our other natural areas! We can't eliminate
all environmental damage, but we can eliminate frivolous,
___ ___
unnecessary damage. True civilization is characterized by
restraint.


"It is expected that outdoor recreational activity will
continue to increase, while the amount of wild land where wildlife
may seek refuge from disturbance will decrease" (Knight and
Gutzwiller, p.327); "Recreationists are, ironically, destroying
the very thing they love: the blooming buzzing confusion of
nature.... The recreation industry deserves to be listed on the
__________________________________________________ __
same page with interests that are cutting the last of the old-
__________________________________________________ ____________
growth forests, washing fertile topsoils into the sea, and pouring
__________________________________________________ ________________
billions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere" (p.340;
__________________________________________________ ______
emphasis added); "Tom Birch ... argues that wilderness managers,
charged with incarcerating wilderness, are more concerned with the
advancement of their careers through achieving quantifiable goals
(number of park visitors, total revenues) and developing park and
forest amenities (roads, 'scenic' turnouts, restrooms, paved
trails, maps, campgrounds) than with perpetuating the land
community of which they are a part" (p.344).

Ideally, we should be working to reduce all human access to
___
wildlife habitat. But at the very least, we should eliminate
mechanical access (with the exception of small compromises for
__________ _____
wheelchairs).

References:

Bicycle Trails Council of Marin v. Bruce Babbitt, No.C-93-0009,slip
op. (N. Dist. Cal., Sept. 1, 1994) (see also Third Circuit Case 94-
16920, http://www.law.vill.edu/Fed-
Ct/Circuit/9th/opinions/t/9416920o.htm).

Ehrlich, Paul and Anne, Extinction: The Causes and Consequences of
__________________________________________
the Disappearance of Species. c.1981.
____________________________

Knight, Richard L. and Kevin J. Gutzwiller, eds. Wildlife and
____________
Recreationists. Covelo, California: Island Press, c.1995.
______________

Phillips, Kathryn, Tracking the Vanishing Frogs: An Ecological
___________________________________________
Mystery. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1994.
____________________________________________

Stebbins, Robert, personal communication.

Vandeman, Michael J., Ph.D.
http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles/

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #18  
Old November 13th 03, 08:38 AM
Westie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman



--
--

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:03:19 +1300, "Westie"


wrote:

.
.
.
."Terri Alvillar" wrote in message
om...
.snip
. The only way mountain bikers can criticize Mike Vandeman is by
. personal attacks since they know his arguments about mountain bike
. destruction are true.
.
.You know that is untrue, Terri.
.I purposely stayed impersonal when I debated with him. He resorted to
.name-calling.
.Do a Google search in the newsgroup for our debate if you will. The
.evidence is clearly there.

Try it now. Discuss this rationally, if you can:

The Effects of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People --
Why Off-Road Bicycling Should be Prohibited
Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.
May 31, 1997

snip 24kb attachment

You had your chance last time.
Frankly, I can't be bothered wasting my time now.
Especially with someone that considers throwing large essays around in a
newsgroup forum that traditionally uses responses of less than a hundred
words to be a clever form of debate technique.
Anyway, you've only ever showed that you argue in circles and resort to name
calling.
Like you do with anyone that tries to debate with you.
--
Westie
(Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)


  #19  
Old November 13th 03, 05:23 PM
Andy Chequer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

I don't associate with boring riff-raff like mountain bikers.

!?!

Andy Chequer


  #20  
Old November 13th 03, 10:04 PM
Stephen Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Mike Vandeman

Westie says:

Likewise, I could never imagine firefighters jumping earthwards from a
perfectly good aeroplane, plummeting towards the flames at hundreds of miles
an hour, slowed by nothing but a lightweight and highly combustible
synthetic parachute as 80lbs of sharp bladed instruments, fire protection
and fighting gear dangles from straps and webbing on their bodies only to
find themselves surrounded by flames and having to run up a 50% grade,
outrunning a wildfire.
It'll never catch on.


Sarcasm ill becomes you, Westie. And is lost on the OP anyway.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting Observation about Mike V. and Terri A. Agent of Freedom Mountain Biking 15 October 6th 03 09:41 AM
The Bay Trail -- A Disaster for Wildlife Mike Vandeman Mountain Biking 16 October 4th 03 01:51 PM
Mike is Still Here? Tim Bondy Mountain Biking 6 August 10th 03 06:33 PM
Mike Vandeman Stephen Baker Mountain Biking 8 July 19th 03 03:40 AM
Open Letter to Mike Vandeman John Morgan Mountain Biking 5 July 16th 03 05:35 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.