December cycling in New York

On 12/22/2020 3:42 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 12/22/2020 11:34 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 12:06:05 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 12/22/2020 11:39 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 10:15:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2020 10:07 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 3:12:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/21/2020 4:33 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 12:52:33 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/21/2020 2:07 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 13:59:48 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 12/21/2020 12:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 5:16:42 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/cyclis...zard-hits-nyc/


Being a Californian I don't know how you could ride any
distance in those sorts of temperatures. Yesterday I did
a 30 mile ride with an average temperature of 45 degrees
and despite thermal clothing I had to ride fast to keep
warm.

Speed affects heat loss too, but I'm sure you know that. My usual
rule of thumb is if the clothing is warm enough when standing
around, it will be about right when exerting myself *and* being
cooled by the increased air movement.


In my experience riding down to about zero F can be no
big deal and quite comfortable given reasonable (not
extreme or expensive) clothing. Ice on streets is indeed
a real problem. Below zero, and worse in a wind, some
care need be taken with clothing but it's not impossible.
OTOH it's often not comfortable, but it is possible.

I don't do very well below about 30 F. Limiting factors
are toes (even with double wool socks, plastic bread bags,
and neoprene booties) and fingers (even with lobster
gloves). This year I've started using the small toe
warming chemical packets marketed to hunters, and they
help a lot--but I haven't yet figured out a way to do the
same for my fingers (the packets don't fit beyond the
mitten part of the gloves).

A large section of sheep turned inside out works for me.
I'm a medium size guy overall but for mittens XL; more
space = more warm air.

Good tip. I've always thought mittens would not work with
shifters, and appreciate the fixed gear suggestion later on in
this post.


I have a very hard time getting gloves large enough to fit
my hands. Most of them pinch between my fingers and cut off
the blood flow making them cold and quite sore afterwards.
For summer gloves I use crocheted XL.

XXL is a standard product:
https://ussheepskin.com/product/yuko...pskin-mittens/

Thanks for the pointer. Bookmarked.


Well, you don't really need a larger size in mittens since it
doesn't pull down between your fingers. I do have a set of
winter mittens around here somewhere. But I also have a set of
heavy winter gloves. But with Di2 you have a very hard time
shifting with heavy gloves.

Yeah, saw that one coming. Tom had switched to discussion of
gloves.


At 30F use what you like.
At zero F, I suggest fixed gear and sheepskin mittens. YMMV

I will give that a try, thank you.
TECH QUESTION FOR ANDREW!

Is there a way to modify an AW model Sturmey-Archer hub, to gain the
ability to easily and reversibly convert to fixed gear and back?

I'd love having the ability to pull a pin or something and go from fixed
to conventional three speed.


--
- Frank Krygowski
I can deal with the cold to down to about 20 degrees if no wind. I
road this morning 51 miles it was 26 degrees when I left and no real
wind. Just have to keep pushing the pedals and spin to stay warm. I
have Raynaud's syndrome and I manage ok. My feet will go a bit numb by
end of ride but ok. My hands require wool gloves they are the best and
I need fingers not mittens. My hand seem to do ok but the feet wow.

In the wind forget it I won't try it when wind gets up that is ugly
and dangerous. Now for the real danger it is ice. That my friends is
the enemy and I know from first hand experience. I had front wheel go
out from under me on a turn in black ice. Landed n my right hip and
guess what............I now have 3 stainless steel screws in the
joint. Thank the Lord ( deacons are suppose to) because the fracture
was not displaced and only the Ortho dr could really read it on the
xray. I had surgery the next day and went back on my indoor trainer
spinning easy in 5 days. I was able to run in 15 weeks. I tell you I
was a lucky person. But to the point.....................no ice.

Deacon Mark

Try the stick-on chemical toe warmers. I stick 'em on the tops of my
shoes, then put on over-booties, it makes a huge difference.Â* Think I
may have borderline Raynaud's, 'cause once the extremities get cold,
they take forever to warm up.

Interesting idea, placing the toe warmers on the tops of the shoes.

Many years ago, our bike club did lots of long hikes in coldest winter.
On one, a young woman put toe warmers inside her socks. After hiking
maybe four miles, she was in serious pain from the excess temperature
inside her boots.

I guess that might not happen to a cyclist, due to the much greater heat
losses from much higher relative air speed. But the incident always
stuck in my mind.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 22:05:21 -0500,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/22/2020 3:42 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 12/22/2020 11:34 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:

On 12/21/2020 2:07 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 13:59:48 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:

In my experience riding down to about zero F can be
no big deal and quite comfortable given reasonable
(not extreme or expensive) clothing. Ice on streets
is indeed a real problem. Below zero, and worse in a
wind, some care need be taken with clothing but it's
not impossible. OTOH it's often not comfortable, but
it is possible.

I don't do very well below about 30 F. Limiting
factors are toes (even with double wool socks,
plastic bread bags, and neoprene booties) and fingers
(even with lobster gloves). This year I've started
using the small toe warming chemical packets marketed
to hunters, and they help a lot--but I haven't yet
figured out a way to do the same for my fingers


I can deal with the cold to down to about 20 degrees if no
wind. I road this morning 51 miles it was 26 degrees when I
left and no real wind. Just have to keep pushing the pedals
and spin to stay warm. I have Raynaud's syndrome and I manage
ok. My feet will go a bit numb by end of ride but ok. My
hands require wool gloves they are the best and I need
fingers not mittens. My hand seem to do ok but the feet wow.

In the wind forget it I won't try it when wind gets up that
is ugly and dangerous. Now for the real danger it is ice.
That my friends is the enemy and I know from first hand
experience. I had front wheel go out from under me on a turn
in black ice. Landed n my right hip and guess
what............I now have 3 stainless steel screws in the
joint. Thank the Lord ( deacons are suppose to) because the
fracture was not displaced and only the Ortho dr could really
read it on the xray. I had surgery the next day and went back
on my indoor trainer spinning easy in 5 days. I was able to
run in 15 weeks. I tell you I was a lucky person. But to the
point.....................no ice.

Totally agree about the ice. I will not ride outside if it's icy.


Try the stick-on chemical toe warmers. I stick 'em on the tops
of my shoes, then put on over-booties, it makes a huge
difference.? Think I may have borderline Raynaud's, 'cause
once the extremities get cold, they take forever to warm up.

Yes, I mentioned the toe warmers some time back, upthread.


Interesting idea, placing the toe warmers on the tops of the
shoes.

Yeah, I'm a little skeptical. I stick them to the outside of my
inner socks, *under* my toes.


Many years ago, our bike club did lots of long hikes in coldest
winter. On one, a young woman put toe warmers inside her socks.
After hiking maybe four miles, she was in serious pain from the
excess temperature inside her boots.

I guess that might not happen to a cyclist, due to the much
greater heat losses from much higher relative air speed. But
the incident always stuck in my mind.

The packets have very clear directions *not* to stck them to bare
skin.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 12/23/2020 4:28 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 22:05:21 -0500,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/22/2020 3:42 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 12/22/2020 11:34 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:

On 12/21/2020 2:07 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 13:59:48 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:

In my experience riding down to about zero F can be
no big deal and quite comfortable given reasonable
(not extreme or expensive) clothing. Ice on streets
is indeed a real problem. Below zero, and worse in a
wind, some care need be taken with clothing but it's
not impossible. OTOH it's often not comfortable, but
it is possible.

I don't do very well below about 30 F. Limiting
factors are toes (even with double wool socks,
plastic bread bags, and neoprene booties) and fingers
(even with lobster gloves). This year I've started
using the small toe warming chemical packets marketed
to hunters, and they help a lot--but I haven't yet
figured out a way to do the same for my fingers


I can deal with the cold to down to about 20 degrees if no
wind. I road this morning 51 miles it was 26 degrees when I
left and no real wind. Just have to keep pushing the pedals
and spin to stay warm. I have Raynaud's syndrome and I manage
ok. My feet will go a bit numb by end of ride but ok. My
hands require wool gloves they are the best and I need
fingers not mittens. My hand seem to do ok but the feet wow.

In the wind forget it I won't try it when wind gets up that
is ugly and dangerous. Now for the real danger it is ice.
That my friends is the enemy and I know from first hand
experience. I had front wheel go out from under me on a turn
in black ice. Landed n my right hip and guess
what............I now have 3 stainless steel screws in the
joint. Thank the Lord ( deacons are suppose to) because the
fracture was not displaced and only the Ortho dr could really
read it on the xray. I had surgery the next day and went back
on my indoor trainer spinning easy in 5 days. I was able to
run in 15 weeks. I tell you I was a lucky person. But to the
point.....................no ice.

Totally agree about the ice. I will not ride outside if it's icy.


Try the stick-on chemical toe warmers. I stick 'em on the tops
of my shoes, then put on over-booties, it makes a huge
difference.? Think I may have borderline Raynaud's, 'cause
once the extremities get cold, they take forever to warm up.

Yes, I mentioned the toe warmers some time back, upthread.


Interesting idea, placing the toe warmers on the tops of the
shoes.

Yeah, I'm a little skeptical. I stick them to the outside of my
inner socks, *under* my toes.

....but *inside* the booties. Doubt they would help as much otherwise.
I'd try inside the *shoes* except my feet are very wide and shoes don't
have a lot of spare room in 'em. (and I use Sidi Megas for the roomier
toe box).



Many years ago, our bike club did lots of long hikes in coldest
winter. On one, a young woman put toe warmers inside her socks.
After hiking maybe four miles, she was in serious pain from the
excess temperature inside her boots.

I guess that might not happen to a cyclist, due to the much
greater heat losses from much higher relative air speed. But
the incident always stuck in my mind.

The packets have very clear directions *not* to stck them to bare
skin.

Yup. I was going to point that out also.

Mark J.

Bertrand writes:

I can deal with the cold to down to about 20 degrees if no wind. I
road this morning 51 miles it was 26 degrees when I left and no real
wind. Just have to keep pushing the pedals and spin to stay warm. I
have Raynaud's syndrome and I manage ok. My feet will go a bit numb
by end of ride but ok. My hands require wool gloves they are the
best and I need fingers not mittens. My hand seem to do ok but the
feet wow.


For riding in the cold I like "glomitts" - basically half-finger
gloves with a mitten cover that can be pulled back when you need
dexterity. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002O4B6RQ

Those are more expensive than some but are made of "Windbloc" that
really is a lot better for this purpose than plain fleece. I usually
wear thin liner gloves underneath.

Mileage may vary. I've tried a few of those, and found them the worst
of both worlds -- not as warm as mittens should be, and more awkward
than gloves. They sit in a drawer somewhere.

I've tried lobster mitts but find them to be the worst of both worlds:
they're not as warm as mittens, but still make it hard to get things
out of my pockets, etc.

All the lobster mitts I've tried have been bicycle-specific, and for
cold weather bicycle-specific gloves really seem to be a joke.
They're always very small for the stated size, and they're never very
warm. Those sit in a drawer too.

Layers are good. I find silk liner gloves make a noticeable difference
when worn under wool liner gloves, although they don't seem to help at
all if worn alone.

I have found that if I run too much of a heat deficit early in a ride
then my hands and feet never seem to warm up, even if the rest of me
begins to sweat. I suppose this is due to reduced peripheral
circulation under cold stress.

On 12/23/2020 1:03 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 12/23/2020 4:28 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 22:05:21 -0500,
Â*Â* Frank Krygowski wrote:
Â* On 12/22/2020 3:42 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 12/22/2020 11:34 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:

On 12/21/2020 2:07 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 13:59:48 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:

In my experience riding down to about zero F can be
no big deal and quite comfortable given reasonable
(not extreme or expensive) clothing. Ice on streets
is indeed a real problem. Below zero, and worse in a
wind, some care need be taken with clothing but it's
not impossible. OTOH it's often not comfortable, but
it is possible.

I don't do very well below about 30 F. Limiting
factors are toes (even with double wool socks,
plastic bread bags, and neoprene booties) and fingers
(even with lobster gloves). This year I've started
using the small toe warming chemical packets marketed
to hunters, and they help a lot--but I haven't yet
figured out a way to do the same for my fingers


I can deal with the cold to down to about 20 degrees if no
wind. I road this morning 51 miles it was 26 degrees when I
left and no real wind. Just have to keep pushing the pedals
and spin to stay warm. I have Raynaud's syndrome and I manage
ok. My feet will go a bit numb by end of ride but ok. My
hands require wool gloves they are the best and I need
fingers not mittens. My hand seem to do ok but the feet wow.

In the wind forget it I won't try it when wind gets up that
is ugly and dangerous. Now for the real danger it is ice.
That my friends is the enemy and I know from first hand
experience. I had front wheel go out from under me on a turn
in black ice. Landed n my right hip and guess
what............I now have 3 stainless steel screws in the
joint. Thank the Lord ( deacons are suppose to) because the
fracture was not displaced and only the Ortho dr could really
read it on the xray. I had surgery the next day and went back
on my indoor trainer spinning easy in 5 days. I was able to
run in 15 weeks. I tell you I was a lucky person. But to the
point.....................no ice.

Totally agree about the ice.Â* I will not ride outside if it's icy.


Try the stick-on chemical toe warmers. I stick 'em on the tops
of my shoes, then put on over-booties, it makes a huge
difference.? Think I may have borderline Raynaud's, 'cause
once the extremities get cold, they take forever to warm up.

Yes, I mentioned the toe warmers some time back, upthread.


Â* Interesting idea, placing the toe warmers on the tops of the
Â* shoes.

Yeah, I'm a little skeptical.Â* I stick them to the outside of my
inner socks, *under* my toes.

...but *inside* the booties.Â* Doubt they would help as much otherwise.
I'd try inside the *shoes* except my feet are very wide and shoes don't
have a lot of spare room in 'em. (and I use Sidi Megas for the roomier
toe box).



Â* Many years ago, our bike club did lots of long hikes in coldest
Â* winter. On one, a young woman put toe warmers inside her socks.
Â* After hiking maybe four miles, she was in serious pain from the
Â* excess temperature inside her boots.

Â* I guess that might not happen to a cyclist, due to the much
Â* greater heat losses from much higher relative air speed. But
Â* the incident always stuck in my mind.

The packets have very clear directions *not* to stck them to bare
skin.

Yup.Â* I was going to point that out also.

Wait! Are there people that read directions???


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/23/2020 2:12 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:


I have found that if I run too much of a heat deficit early in a ride
then my hands and feet never seem to warm up, even if the rest of me
begins to sweat. I suppose this is due to reduced peripheral
circulation under cold stress.

+1. And that makes things really tricky, since it's pretty well known
that if you don't feel a bit chilly at the start, you'll soon overheat.

For a while I took notes on what clothes worked at what temperatures.
But I suppose my notes are out of calibration now. My metabolism seems
to have slowed with age, and now I rarely ride far in serious cold.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 15:54:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

particularly if you're sweaty from the climb

Never charge a hill in winter!!!

Work hard until you thaw, then shift down and take as long as possible
to get to the top.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 17:49:24 -0500, Bertrand
wrote:

I've tried lobster mitts but find them to be the worst of both worlds: they're
not as warm as mittens, but still make it hard to get things out of my pockets, etc.

I have hand-knitted slip-stitch lobster mitts -- invented them before
they were commercially available; a friend called them "thalidomide
gloves", that being in the news at the time. I made the thumb gusset
particularly generous, making it possible to tuck my thumb in with the
other fingers when I wasn't using it, yet have it pop out instantly
when it was needed.

I wore them over hand knitted persian-wool gloves and hand-knitted
persian-wool lobster gloves sized to fit over the wool gloves and my
cycling gloves. I forgot the cycling gloves one bitter day and didn't
miss them under three layers of wool, one worsted-weight.

This was quite adequate on days when I had to stop at intervals, go
into a warm place, and take my shoes off for five or ten minutes.

Luckily, I live in a warmer place now, because when I lost the ability
to watch television, I could no longer knit new liner gloves as fast
as they wore out. With darns, the outer mits are still around and I
wear them over mystery-fiber gloves from tub displays. It's really
hard to find them in yellow, and I've had to settle for conductive
fingertips the last few times I've bought them.

The solution to getting things out of pockets was to replace my
handkerchief with a really-stiff paper towel.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On 21/12/2020 19:59, AMuzi wrote:


In my experience riding down to about zero F can be no big deal and
quite comfortable given reasonable (not extreme or expensive) clothing.
Ice on streets is indeed a real problem.Â* Below zero, and worse in a
wind, some care need be taken with clothing but it's not impossible.
OTOH it's often not comfortable, but it is possible.
zero F ?

It's 2 C here and I'm thinking deeply about which gloves.

On 1/23/2021 8:13 AM, Ade wrote:
On 21/12/2020 19:59, AMuzi wrote:


In my experience riding down to about zero F can be no big
deal and quite comfortable given reasonable (not extreme
or expensive) clothing. Ice on streets is indeed a real
problem. Below zero, and worse in a wind, some care need
be taken with clothing but it's not impossible. OTOH it's
often not comfortable, but it is possible.
zero F ?

It's 2 C here and I'm thinking deeply about which gloves.

It's plus two F here. A nice chunk of sheep turned inside
out works pretty well.
https://ussheepskin.com/product/yuko...pskin-mittens/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971