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Will e-bikes expand cycling?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 30th 19, 03:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:46:36 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:

There just are fewer electric bicycles. So far...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I'm no longer so sure. I've of course heard all the talk of the coming e-bike revolution, but my own bike is now ten years old, and in that time I've seen precisely three e-bikes beside my own in a catchment are of 40-50,000 people. It is as well to describe them:

2x were tourists down from a nearby city on rented e-bikes, looking for a place to charge them. Both standard 25kph limited pedelecs.

1x driver who did his license for a year for drink-driving, something not tolerated in our society. 750W centre Bafang motor in a custom built bike. I ride past his house often and when we met on the road he offered me a ride: I was impressed by the torque and acceleration, and by the comfort too on 60mm Big Apples, same as on my bike, but didn't attempt to establish a top speed; around 40mph would not surprise me. Not a bike for either a novice bicyclist or a cocky rider or even a rider of small motorcycles. An experienced superbike rider, he rides on the road with cars, not on paths unless he goes offroad. He thought that if he'd spoken to me first, he would have specified a smaller motor so he could have more range, because he thought my bike a good balance between power and range.

Several people on fora with me have followed me into electrifying their bikes with mid-motors and all are using them. But that increases the universe from which my sample is drawn to ten of millions... Anyway, they don't change my conclusion (below): they're all longterm cyclists, tourers, commuters, coming naturally (age, disabilities) to electric *assistance*.

And that's it. I know several more people with electric bikes gathering dust in their garages but they rode them so little before they parked them for good that I never saw them on their bikes. But they stop their cars in town and out on the road to ask if my bike is for sale. They're under the impression that my bike is possessed of some German magic that makes my battery go further by several multiples than theirs did -- they just don't believe it is because I pedal and cut in the battery only when my heart rate exceeds the permitted limit. They look at me in horror when I tell them that I charge the battery even if I rode it only a couple of klicks to the shops and back. They wrecked their bikes by running the batteries flat because they bought the bikes for "exercise" and then didn't exercise but used their bikes like motorbikes. ***They're not cyclists.***

And that is the key. Established cyclists understand the concept of looking after your equipment and thus make the transition to e-bikes easily. Non-cyclists will not be persuaded by electric bikes to become anything you will recognise as a cyclist. A new generation might grow up to be electric cyclists without first being cyclists, but that is pure speculation arrived at by elimination, never the most persuasive of reasoning methods.

Andre Jute
So how come I can't see the revolution I'm supposed to be leading?
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  #2  
Old October 30th 19, 02:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 8:35:17 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:46:36 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:

There just are fewer electric bicycles. So far...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I'm no longer so sure. I've of course heard all the talk of the coming e-bike revolution, but my own bike is now ten years old, and in that time I've seen precisely three e-bikes beside my own in a catchment are of 40-50,000 people. It is as well to describe them:

2x were tourists down from a nearby city on rented e-bikes, looking for a place to charge them. Both standard 25kph limited pedelecs.

1x driver who did his license for a year for drink-driving, something not tolerated in our society. 750W centre Bafang motor in a custom built bike. I ride past his house often and when we met on the road he offered me a ride: I was impressed by the torque and acceleration, and by the comfort too on 60mm Big Apples, same as on my bike, but didn't attempt to establish a top speed; around 40mph would not surprise me. Not a bike for either a novice bicyclist or a cocky rider or even a rider of small motorcycles. An experienced superbike rider, he rides on the road with cars, not on paths unless he goes offroad. He thought that if he'd spoken to me first, he would have specified a smaller motor so he could have more range, because he thought my bike a good balance between power and range.

Several people on fora with me have followed me into electrifying their bikes with mid-motors and all are using them. But that increases the universe from which my sample is drawn to ten of millions... Anyway, they don't change my conclusion (below): they're all longterm cyclists, tourers, commuters, coming naturally (age, disabilities) to electric *assistance*.

And that's it. I know several more people with electric bikes gathering dust in their garages but they rode them so little before they parked them for good that I never saw them on their bikes. But they stop their cars in town and out on the road to ask if my bike is for sale. They're under the impression that my bike is possessed of some German magic that makes my battery go further by several multiples than theirs did -- they just don't believe it is because I pedal and cut in the battery only when my heart rate exceeds the permitted limit. They look at me in horror when I tell them that I charge the battery even if I rode it only a couple of klicks to the shops and back. They wrecked their bikes by running the batteries flat because they bought the bikes for "exercise" and then didn't exercise but used their bikes like motorbikes. ***They're not cyclists.***

And that is the key. Established cyclists understand the concept of looking after your equipment and thus make the transition to e-bikes easily. Non-cyclists will not be persuaded by electric bikes to become anything you will recognise as a cyclist. A new generation might grow up to be electric cyclists without first being cyclists, but that is pure speculation arrived at by elimination, never the most persuasive of reasoning methods.

Andre Jute
So how come I can't see the revolution I'm supposed to be leading?


Electric bikes and scooters are all over the bay area. I cannot believe that they will turn out to be a profitable business in the long term but for a year or two they are everywhere. People that couldn't ride up a molehill are riding up 20% grades in Sam Francisco.

Since the key component is the battery, unless they improve the batteries and greatly cheapen the cost they ought to survive until the first large scale replacement.

I have done some thinking about this and there is a suitable method of replacements that make the recharging every rapid - about the time to pump gas into a car, but the technology is highly experimental and only one man in UC Santa Barbara has been able to make any of this stuff. None of it is available commercially. I have considered contacting him but why should I? As a member of the UC staff he cannot patent anything and so why shouldn't Elon Musk be down there giving him a research grant that would pay for an entire new wing?

The US has seen electric cars now and they are not impressed. Sales of Tesla in the US are down by a third. They are picking up in countries with little access to oil and gas.

There are several types of plankton that are 95% efficient at conversion of sunlight to matter that can be converted to fuel. This means it is entirely renewable and otherwise uses all of the technology developed over 100 years.

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.
  #3  
Old October 30th 19, 06:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,439
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:49:21 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.


Get on it, Tom! Stop wasting your time here. Run for congress!

But the problem is a lot bigger than you've stated. It's not just NASA falsifying
data. There are dozens of countries in on the scam! They've even taking to
melting glaciers (doubtlessly using top secret technology) to convince people
of this global scam.

The world needs you to save us! Stop posting on r.b.tech about it - get out and
save the world!

- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old October 30th 19, 09:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Zen Cycle
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Posts: 190
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 2:12:01 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:49:21 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.


Get on it, Tom! Stop wasting your time here. Run for congress!

But the problem is a lot bigger than you've stated. It's not just NASA falsifying
data. There are dozens of countries in on the scam! They've even taking to
melting glaciers (doubtlessly using top secret technology) to convince people
of this global scam.

The world needs you to save us! Stop posting on r.b.tech about it - get out and
save the world!

- Frank Krygowski


And while he's at it may be he can convince jute to write something a publisher might be interested rather than trolling a news group every day.
  #5  
Old October 30th 19, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 2:33:10 PM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 2:12:01 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:49:21 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.


Get on it, Tom! Stop wasting your time here. Run for congress!

But the problem is a lot bigger than you've stated. It's not just NASA falsifying
data. There are dozens of countries in on the scam! They've even taking to
melting glaciers (doubtlessly using top secret technology) to convince people
of this global scam.

The world needs you to save us! Stop posting on r.b.tech about it - get out and
save the world!

- Frank Krygowski


And while he's at it may be he can convince jute to write something a publisher might be interested rather than trolling a news group every day.


Or maybe I can just simply note that not one single climate prediction has been accurate for over 40 years. When Dr. Roy Spencer was about to retire someone asked him what he expected from his weather satellite department - he said that his satellite data that showed no warming whatsoever would be "corrected" to show warming. So guess what happened?
  #6  
Old October 30th 19, 11:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 9,965
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

This is what people who lost an argument sound like. They have no arguments; they just want to shut up everyone not prepared to take their lies on faith.

Andre Jute
NFFM

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 6:12:01 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:49:21 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.


Get on it, Tom! Stop wasting your time here. Run for congress!

But the problem is a lot bigger than you've stated. It's not just NASA falsifying
data. There are dozens of countries in on the scam! They've even taking to
melting glaciers (doubtlessly using top secret technology) to convince people
of this global scam.

The world needs you to save us! Stop posting on r.b.tech about it - get out and
save the world!

- Frank Krygowski

  #7  
Old October 31st 19, 12:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,965
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 2:49:21 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:

There are several types of plankton that are 95% efficient at conversion of sunlight to matter that can be converted to fuel. This means it is entirely renewable and otherwise uses all of the technology developed over 100 years.


The plankton sounds promising. But we heard all these promises before with, for instance, ethanol, which turned into a gorilla on the taxpayers' backs. Investors are getting skittish.

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.


Any pol who promises to jail Jim Hansen and Michael Mann would be certain of being elected President. But somehow I don't see any Democrat having the balls to call out the hoax of global warming.

Andre Jute
You can't shut up the truth
  #8  
Old October 31st 19, 01:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 11:11:58 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:49:21 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote

Now what we really need is a serious Congressional investigation into why NASA has been falsifying the temperature records. This is now to the point that they should criminally charge these people with lying under the cover of authority.


Get on it, Tom! Stop wasting your time here. Run for congress!

But the problem is a lot bigger than you've stated. It's not just NASA falsifying
data. There are dozens of countries in on the scam! They've even taking to
melting glaciers (doubtlessly using top secret technology) to convince people
of this global scam.

The world needs you to save us! Stop posting on r.b.tech about it - get out and
save the world!

- Frank Krygowski


Antarctica recently produced another iceberg, 1636 sq. kilometers.
That is some 631 sq. miles.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #9  
Old October 31st 19, 06:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,108
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On 10/30/2019 6:15 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Antarctica recently produced another iceberg, 1636 sq. kilometers.
That is some 631 sq. miles.


Well a new iceberg in Antarctica conclusively proves that all the
concern about the rising levels of CO2, and all the sea level rise, and
all the new record temperatures around the world, are a cruel hoax,
foisted upon us by known liberal, left-wing, one-world, egg-headed,
bleeding heart, commie, pinko-pansy, Viet-Cong sympathizin', bed wetters.

  #10  
Old October 31st 19, 11:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,965
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:12:34 PM UTC, sms wrote:
On 10/30/2019 6:15 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Antarctica recently produced another iceberg, 1636 sq. kilometers.
That is some 631 sq. miles.


Well a new iceberg in Antarctica conclusively proves that all the
concern about the rising levels of CO2, and all the sea level rise, and
all the new record temperatures around the world, are a cruel hoax,
foisted upon us by known liberal, left-wing, one-world, egg-headed,
bleeding heart, commie, pinko-pansy, Viet-Cong sympathizin', bed wetters.


Yo, Scharfie, I know it is difficult to keep track of fractious progressive treachery and insanity, but you can't just leave off the pinko-commie-fellow-travellers.

Andre Jute
It's a mistake, too, to confuse "useful idiots" (Lenin) with "pinko-commie-fellow-travellers" (Stalin)
 




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