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Cassette change?



 
 
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  #61  
Old August 1st 20, 12:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,012
Default OT: Tommy's diverted again Cassette change?

On 7/31/2020 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2020 2:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/30/2020 9:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

The real problem is, what is appropriate behavior when
a person's
mental handicap caused them to behave in a truly
obnoxious manner?
It's not a rare problem.

In real life, one can usually walk away or otherwise
arrange to not
listen to the disturbed individual. On a discussion
group such as this
one, it's more difficult. Despite best resolutions, it
can be
difficult to not respond.

Seriously? It's not difficult *at*all* to just not
f*ing post.

OK: Why did you post that?

I suspect it's because you felt you had something
significant to
contribute. And for bonus points, you thought I was
wrong, and you
felt a need to correct me. So you posted. Right?

But couldn't you have proven your point - "It's easy to
not post" - by
simply not posting? Think about that a moment. I'll wait.

. . . . .

. . . . .

It doesn't work, right? Here's why:

When dealing with a mentally deficient or otherwise
unreasonable
person in real life, there are many silent tools. Eye
rolling, steely
glares, slowly shaking one's head and more can all be
done in
silence. They often make a person realize he's out of
bounds. If those
fail, one can walk away mid-conversation, which does
deliver a
message.

On this sort of discussion group, those tools are absent.
Sudden
silence - IOW, just not posting - conveys nothing. In
fact, it
probably makes Tom or Jute think they've just been proven
brilliant. Worse, dimwits reading them may think "Ooh, he
must be
right!"

It's a problem. At least try to understand that.


I will reply only this once, after which I will, indeed,
just not post.


But understand what you just did, please - despite
advocating just not posting! IOW, you just illustrated the
problem.

You have the dynamics of this and similar forums
backwards. Replying to
a post encourages more of the same. Replying with angry
insults tends
to *really* encourage more of the same.


You may want to review my posts. Any "angry insults" I've
posted have been extremely, extremely rare - perhaps two per
year - and directed at only one immensely abusive and
completely unproductive poster. He's aself-fueled troll.
He'll do what he does whether anyone responds or not.

My responses to Tom have not been angry. I'm serious when I
say I feel sorry for him, because I do think he has real
mental problems. But when he talks nonsense - a "Generator"
model hub that does not generate, tires so good they
accelerate when he's coasting on a flat road, etc. I'll post
to correct him. I think most of us post corrections when our
expertise comes upon a real mistake. Isn't that a function
of a discussion group?

On non-bike topics, I've barely engaged Tom. My typical
comments have been very brier, like "Why aren't you talking
to Trump instead of us?" It's not invective, it's not angry.
It's a bit sarcastic, but it's also a valid question.

All this bypasses my original question on this point. Tom is
admittedly a bit demented (in the clinical sense) and
showing other signs of problems.

At a now sadly defunct forum that I used to read the
moderator's
suggested test was three-pronged:
Is it true?
Is it necessary?
Is it kind?
Two out of three were supposed to be required. Try to
understand that.


Hmm: A _moderator's_ suggestion?

Maybe the question becomes: Why do certain groups have
moderators And where can we get one?



Many feel that the occasional idiot or invective is much
preferred to a controlled environment. I for one would just
go away.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #62  
Old August 1st 20, 12:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,012
Default OT: Tommy's diverted again Cassette change?

On 7/31/2020 5:40 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 14:26:08 UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/30/2020 9:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

The real problem is, what is appropriate behavior when a person's
mental handicap caused them to behave in a truly obnoxious manner?
It's not a rare problem.

In real life, one can usually walk away or otherwise arrange to not
listen to the disturbed individual. On a discussion group such as this
one, it's more difficult. Despite best resolutions, it can be
difficult to not respond.

Seriously? It's not difficult *at*all* to just not f*ing post.

OK: Why did you post that?

I suspect it's because you felt you had something significant to
contribute. And for bonus points, you thought I was wrong, and you
felt a need to correct me. So you posted. Right?

But couldn't you have proven your point - "It's easy to not post" - by
simply not posting? Think about that a moment. I'll wait.

. . . . .

. . . . .

It doesn't work, right? Here's why:

When dealing with a mentally deficient or otherwise unreasonable
person in real life, there are many silent tools. Eye rolling, steely
glares, slowly shaking one's head and more can all be done in
silence. They often make a person realize he's out of bounds. If those
fail, one can walk away mid-conversation, which does deliver a
message.

On this sort of discussion group, those tools are absent. Sudden
silence - IOW, just not posting - conveys nothing. In fact, it
probably makes Tom or Jute think they've just been proven
brilliant. Worse, dimwits reading them may think "Ooh, he must be
right!"

It's a problem. At least try to understand that.


I will reply only this once, after which I will, indeed, just not post.

You have the dynamics of this and similar forums backwards. Replying to
a post encourages more of the same. Replying with angry insults tends
to *really* encourage more of the same. Continuing to pour invective
into complete silence is just not any fun -- you might as well write
your snide, angry, vituperative, or smarmily superior post and then
just *not* send it. Which is what I suggest.

This isn't theory, just years of observation.

Tom may have his blind spots, but he's absolutely correct in saying that
he gets a much bigger response to off-topic posts than on-topic posts.

At a now sadly defunct forum that I used to read the moderator's
suggested test was three-pronged:
Is it true?
Is it necessary?
Is it kind?
Two out of three were supposed to be required. Try to understand that.


People who insist on responding to known Trolls are just as bad as the Troll imho.

Without the Trolls and the replies to them this group too would be just about devoid of any MEANINGFUL activity. It's why so many have stopped using it. Look at the other Usenet rec.bicycles. groups and you can see that Trolls and Spammers have virtually killed them.

This used to bea fantastic place to get quick answers to questions about BICYCLES. Now a thread gets hijacked within a few posts and one person insists on calling it Topic Drift. They say that's what happens in real world conversations. In fact in real world conversations, people will ask to please stay on topic. Once the original topic is exhausted they'll start a new topic. That's only courtesy which is sorely lacking here.

Now when I need pertinent information to something bicycling related I go to a moderated forum where my question will have answers pertaining to the question asked.

Andrew is on of the few here who still answers bicycling rlated questions quickly and on-topic. When he's gone I bet this newsgroup will either die or be populated mostly by the Trolls and their respondents.

Cheers


Jay is also experienced witty and helpful about newish
equipment where he has more expertise than I. (delegation is
a wonderful habit and it keeps me sane)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #63  
Old August 1st 20, 12:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default OT: Tommy's diverted again Cassette change?

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 3:40:22 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 14:26:08 UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/30/2020 9:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

The real problem is, what is appropriate behavior when a person's
mental handicap caused them to behave in a truly obnoxious manner?
It's not a rare problem.

In real life, one can usually walk away or otherwise arrange to not
listen to the disturbed individual. On a discussion group such as this
one, it's more difficult. Despite best resolutions, it can be
difficult to not respond.

Seriously? It's not difficult *at*all* to just not f*ing post.

OK: Why did you post that?

I suspect it's because you felt you had something significant to
contribute. And for bonus points, you thought I was wrong, and you
felt a need to correct me. So you posted. Right?

But couldn't you have proven your point - "It's easy to not post" - by
simply not posting? Think about that a moment. I'll wait.

. . . . .

. . . . .

It doesn't work, right? Here's why:

When dealing with a mentally deficient or otherwise unreasonable
person in real life, there are many silent tools. Eye rolling, steely
glares, slowly shaking one's head and more can all be done in
silence. They often make a person realize he's out of bounds. If those
fail, one can walk away mid-conversation, which does deliver a
message.

On this sort of discussion group, those tools are absent. Sudden
silence - IOW, just not posting - conveys nothing. In fact, it
probably makes Tom or Jute think they've just been proven
brilliant. Worse, dimwits reading them may think "Ooh, he must be
right!"

It's a problem. At least try to understand that.


I will reply only this once, after which I will, indeed, just not post.

You have the dynamics of this and similar forums backwards. Replying to
a post encourages more of the same. Replying with angry insults tends
to *really* encourage more of the same. Continuing to pour invective
into complete silence is just not any fun -- you might as well write
your snide, angry, vituperative, or smarmily superior post and then
just *not* send it. Which is what I suggest.

This isn't theory, just years of observation.

Tom may have his blind spots, but he's absolutely correct in saying that
he gets a much bigger response to off-topic posts than on-topic posts.

At a now sadly defunct forum that I used to read the moderator's
suggested test was three-pronged:
Is it true?
Is it necessary?
Is it kind?
Two out of three were supposed to be required. Try to understand that.


People who insist on responding to known Trolls are just as bad as the Troll imho.

Without the Trolls and the replies to them this group too would be just about devoid of any MEANINGFUL activity. It's why so many have stopped using it. Look at the other Usenet rec.bicycles. groups and you can see that Trolls and Spammers have virtually killed them.

This used to bea fantastic place to get quick answers to questions about BICYCLES. Now a thread gets hijacked within a few posts and one person insists on calling it Topic Drift. They say that's what happens in real world conversations. In fact in real world conversations, people will ask to please stay on topic. Once the original topic is exhausted they'll start a new topic. That's only courtesy which is sorely lacking here.

Now when I need pertinent information to something bicycling related I go to a moderated forum where my question will have answers pertaining to the question asked.

Andrew is on of the few here who still answers bicycling rlated questions quickly and on-topic. When he's gone I bet this newsgroup will either die or be populated mostly by the Trolls and their respondents.


Why had you no comments on all of my bicycle related threads but pop up to complain there is no bicycle content?
  #64  
Old August 1st 20, 11:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 455
Default OT: Tommy's diverted again Cassette change?

On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 12:29:09 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2020 2:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/30/2020 9:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

The real problem is, what is appropriate behavior when a person's
mental handicap caused them to behave in a truly obnoxious manner?
It's not a rare problem.

In real life, one can usually walk away or otherwise arrange to not
listen to the disturbed individual. On a discussion group such as this
one, it's more difficult. Despite best resolutions, it can be
difficult to not respond.

Seriously? It's not difficult *at*all* to just not f*ing post.

OK: Why did you post that?

I suspect it's because you felt you had something significant to
contribute. And for bonus points, you thought I was wrong, and you
felt a need to correct me. So you posted. Right?

But couldn't you have proven your point - "It's easy to not post" - by
simply not posting? Think about that a moment. I'll wait.

. . . . .

. . . . .

It doesn't work, right? Here's why:

When dealing with a mentally deficient or otherwise unreasonable
person in real life, there are many silent tools. Eye rolling, steely
glares, slowly shaking one's head and more can all be done in
silence. They often make a person realize he's out of bounds. If those
fail, one can walk away mid-conversation, which does deliver a
message.

On this sort of discussion group, those tools are absent. Sudden
silence - IOW, just not posting - conveys nothing. In fact, it
probably makes Tom or Jute think they've just been proven
brilliant. Worse, dimwits reading them may think "Ooh, he must be
right!"

It's a problem. At least try to understand that.


I will reply only this once, after which I will, indeed, just not post.


But understand what you just did, please - despite advocating just not
posting! IOW, you just illustrated the problem.

You have the dynamics of this and similar forums backwards. Replying to
a post encourages more of the same. Replying with angry insults tends
to *really* encourage more of the same.


You may want to review my posts. Any "angry insults" I've posted have
been extremely, extremely rare - perhaps two per year - and directed at
only one immensely abusive and completely unproductive poster. He's
aself-fueled troll. He'll do what he does whether anyone responds or not.

My responses to Tom have not been angry. I'm serious when I say I feel
sorry for him, because I do think he has real mental problems. But when
he talks nonsense - a "Generator" model hub that does not generate,
tires so good they accelerate when he's coasting on a flat road, etc.
I'll post to correct him. I think most of us post corrections when our
expertise comes upon a real mistake. Isn't that a function of a
discussion group?

On non-bike topics, I've barely engaged Tom. My typical comments have
been very brier, like "Why aren't you talking to Trump instead of us?"
It's not invective, it's not angry. It's a bit sarcastic, but it's also
a valid question.

All this bypasses my original question on this point. Tom is admittedly
a bit demented (in the clinical sense) and showing other signs of problems.

At a now sadly defunct forum that I used to read the moderator's
suggested test was three-pronged:
Is it true?
Is it necessary?
Is it kind?
Two out of three were supposed to be required. Try to understand that.


Hmm: A _moderator's_ suggestion?

Maybe the question becomes: Why do certain groups have moderators And
where can we get one?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Bringing up old statements, opinions or even stupid remarks or verbal abuses again and again from a person you think has mental issues is silly, childish and counter productive. Have you ever admitted that you were wrong? Even now you are looking for excuses. Do you also argue with someone who suffers from Gilles de la Tourette syndrome? Gee you are a person that gets onto my nerves sometimes. Don't reply it is my problem. Have a nice weekend. Pro cycling is resumed this afternoon (Strada Bianca).



Lou
 




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