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  #11  
Old July 26th 20, 09:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 08:43:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The country with probably the longest history of slavery making comments
like that? Those that they didn't sell into slavery or enslave in foreign
countries, they shipped of to Australian to die.


White Cargo
The Forgotten History of Britain’s White Slaves in America
https://nyupress.org/9780814742969/white-cargo/


Snopes gives that meme a grade of “Well, not quite true”.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ir...early-america/

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  #12  
Old July 26th 20, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 08:43:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The country with probably the longest history of slavery making comments
like that? Those that they didn't sell into slavery or enslave in foreign
countries, they shipped of to Australian to die.


White Cargo
The Forgotten History of Britain’s White Slaves in America
https://nyupress.org/9780814742969/white-cargo/

--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


The English would ship Irish off to the action blocks in Antigua. Then because the wives and children would have no means of support they shipped them off to Antigua as well. I once saw an advertisement for a slave auction in Antigua and it said, "Women and children".
  #13  
Old July 26th 20, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 3,372
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On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 14:14:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

How else would one build a pyramid?


Corvee labor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corv%C3%A9e
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corv%C3%A9e#Egypt
Each village was expected to contribute a number of children to work
for the state. Some for life, while others for specific projects. It
was much the same as conscription for the military. The image of
Jewish slaves building pyramids is probably false. There are problems
with the Egyptian chronology, which has been revised numerous times to
attempt to synchronize biblical dates with archeological finds:
https://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/01/12/egypt-new-find-shows-slaves-didnt-build-pyramids
"No Jews built the pyramids because Jews didn't exist at
the period when the pyramids were built," Mazar said.
https://ancientexodus.com/the-date-of-the-exodus/
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-1.5208519
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Egypt#Genesis_and_Exodus
There probably was an Exodus, which started with a popular revolt
caused by ten plagues, making Egypt a rather unhealthy place to live.
Little wonder the Jews and everyone else who could travel, left for
someplace else.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #14  
Old July 26th 20, 09:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 884
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On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 12:14:55 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/26/2020 1:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 10:34:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have absolutely no reason to believe that slavery was
pre-homo sapiens.


Would ants qualify as pre homo sapien?
"Slave-making ant"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave-making_ant

And while you might say that slavery was a way of life
pre-historic it was not generally in the manner of modern
slavery as of the time of Kings and other royalty.


Yep. Times change. In the good old days there was quite a bit of
volunteer slavery. That's where a family or larger group could not
effectively feed themselves and sold either family members for the
food they needed, or sold the entire family in trade for protection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery
There were also various borderline version of slavery. The term
"bondman" or "indentured servant" is sometimes used to describe
temporary voluntary slavery, where there are term limits or things
that needed to be accomplished before the slave is released. There
are those who will argue that sharecropping is a form of slavery:
https://www.pbs.org/tpt/slavery-by-another-name/themes/sharecropping/
"Approximately two-thirds of all sharecroppers were white,
and one third were black."

At some point, we will need to draw the line between slavery for
mutual economic or social benefits, and the general loss of civil
right such as being treated as property. The current protests will
probably move the line a little, but I doubt if they will completely
erase the practice.





How else would one build a pyramid?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


It was EXTREMELY complicated and the Israelites were not slaves by today's definitions. They were given land upon which to grow food. They were allowed their own government and leaders. When the black plaque hit ("The angel of death") They marked all of the Israelite doorways with the blood of the fallen, this gave all of the inhabitants of these houses very mild infections - something that the Pharaoh did not understand and his son died. Whereupon the Pharaoh cast all of the Israelites into the wilderness. Moses was the leader of the Israelite government.

It might be said that George Washington took a clue from this biblical history. During the war of 1776 There was a Smallpox epidemic in the US. Washington that disease as a young man had his troops rubbed with material from the pustules of infected people. This was an extremely course system of vaccination and it worked. Very few of Washington's troops died from the epidemic and many British soldiers did.

History is an odd thing. In too many cases we do not have the whole story so we were left with thousands of years before the actual truth seeps out slowly by new discoveries. This is why the media is destroying their own livelihood. They refuse to tell the truth and people know better so they no longer have any credence.
  #15  
Old July 26th 20, 09:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 884
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On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 1:09:57 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 08:43:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The country with probably the longest history of slavery making comments
like that? Those that they didn't sell into slavery or enslave in foreign
countries, they shipped of to Australian to die.


White Cargo
The Forgotten History of Britain’s White Slaves in America
https://nyupress.org/9780814742969/white-cargo/


Snopes gives that meme a grade of “Well, not quite true”.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ir...early-america/


Snopes and Answers are entirely politicized and misleading. Don't believe one single thing they "rule" on.
  #16  
Old July 26th 20, 09:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,586
Default Global Cycling News

AMuzi writes:

On 7/26/2020 11:33 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/26/2020 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/26/2020 10:43 AM, wrote:
This appears to be the sort of entertainment for the
likes of Franky-boy and SMS.

While I was watching it they were talking about the US
having a great deal of trouble facing up to our racist past.

Can you just imagine that? The country with probably the
longest history of slavery making comments like that?
Those that they didn't sell into slavery or enslave in
foreign countries, they shipped of to Australian to die.
They supported the South African regime until the English
people wouldn't have it any longer. And this bunch of
uneducated pedal pushers make comments about other
countries.


No country has the 'longest history of slavery' given
universal prehistory possibly including Denisovans and
Neandertals. Sheesh. You also ignore the many current
examples which are not diminishing at all.


Agreed. I get very tired of the myth that American colonists
invented slavery, or that only blacks were slaves and only
whites were masters.

In fact, I'm starting to object to the word "white" as a
racial descriptor.

I'm not white! I'm sort of tan, dammit, and that makes ME a
"person of color tan!" "White" is offensive!!



AP style handbook now calls for the word 'black' to always be
capitalized but never 'white'. This crap not only never ends but it
seems that some lives are considered less meaningful than others:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/25/black-...-in-milwaukee/

Milwaukee police don't see any particular urgency to this case.


Joe Biden explained that one for us: he ain't black.
  #17  
Old July 26th 20, 10:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,586
Default Global Cycling News

AMuzi writes:

On 7/26/2020 1:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 10:34:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

We have absolutely no reason to believe that slavery was
pre-homo sapiens.


Would ants qualify as pre homo sapien?
"Slave-making ant"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave-making_ant

And while you might say that slavery was a way of life
pre-historic it was not generally in the manner of modern
slavery as of the time of Kings and other royalty.


Yep. Times change. In the good old days there was quite a bit of
volunteer slavery. That's where a family or larger group could not
effectively feed themselves and sold either family members for the
food they needed, or sold the entire family in trade for protection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery
There were also various borderline version of slavery. The term
"bondman" or "indentured servant" is sometimes used to describe
temporary voluntary slavery, where there are term limits or things
that needed to be accomplished before the slave is released. There
are those who will argue that sharecropping is a form of slavery:
https://www.pbs.org/tpt/slavery-by-another-name/themes/sharecropping/
"Approximately two-thirds of all sharecroppers were white,
and one third were black."

At some point, we will need to draw the line between slavery for
mutual economic or social benefits, and the general loss of civil
right such as being treated as property. The current protests will
probably move the line a little, but I doubt if they will completely
erase the practice.





How else would one build a pyramid?


Current thinking is that pyramid building, at least in ancient Egypt,
was done by free men, likely through a labor draft in lieu of other
taxes. It's hard to get slaves to do the kind of skilled labor needed
to build a solid granite pyramid.

https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/...-pyramids-html
  #18  
Old July 26th 20, 10:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 12,012
Default Global Cycling News

On 7/26/2020 3:59 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 7/26/2020 11:33 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/26/2020 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/26/2020 10:43 AM, wrote:
This appears to be the sort of entertainment for the
likes of Franky-boy and SMS.

While I was watching it they were talking about the US
having a great deal of trouble facing up to our racist past.

Can you just imagine that? The country with probably the
longest history of slavery making comments like that?
Those that they didn't sell into slavery or enslave in
foreign countries, they shipped of to Australian to die.
They supported the South African regime until the English
people wouldn't have it any longer. And this bunch of
uneducated pedal pushers make comments about other
countries.


No country has the 'longest history of slavery' given
universal prehistory possibly including Denisovans and
Neandertals. Sheesh. You also ignore the many current
examples which are not diminishing at all.

Agreed. I get very tired of the myth that American colonists
invented slavery, or that only blacks were slaves and only
whites were masters.

In fact, I'm starting to object to the word "white" as a
racial descriptor.

I'm not white! I'm sort of tan, dammit, and that makes ME a
"person of color tan!" "White" is offensive!!



AP style handbook now calls for the word 'black' to always be
capitalized but never 'white'. This crap not only never ends but it
seems that some lives are considered less meaningful than others:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/25/black-...-in-milwaukee/

Milwaukee police don't see any particular urgency to this case.


Joe Biden explained that one for us: he ain't black.


Oh well then, doesn't 'matter'. Carry on.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #19  
Old July 26th 20, 10:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 3,372
Default Global Cycling News

On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 20:09:49 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 08:43:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The country with probably the longest history of slavery making comments
like that? Those that they didn't sell into slavery or enslave in foreign
countries, they shipped of to Australian to die.


White Cargo
The Forgotten History of Britain?s White Slaves in America
https://nyupress.org/9780814742969/white-cargo/


Snopes gives that meme a grade of Well, not quite true.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ir...early-america/

As usual, reality lives between the extremes. The consensus seems to
be that Snopes is generally correct, but I prefer to read (skim) the
available literature and make up my own mind about a topic I know
little. So far, the only thing I've read worth debating is whether
indentured servitude or volunteer slavery is bad, evil, illegal, etc
with plenty of opinions at each extreme.

"Irish slaves myth"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth

"The Irish Famine of 1740 prompted immigration to America"
https://theargyllcolonyplus.org/the-irish-famine-of-1740-prompted-immigration-to-america/
...it is said that 38% of the Irish population died during
the crisis.

Over the centuries, Ireland has had several major famines. This one
was from 1740 to 1741:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Famine_(1740%E2%80%9341)
...is estimated to have killed between 13% and 20% of the
1740 population of 2.4 million people...
The book covers the 17th and 18th century, which includes this famine.
The ritual is usually the same when there's a famine. Families do
what needs to be done to stay alive, while the government does
nothing. The Irish were stuck with either selling themselves into
indentured service or starving. They chose "transportation" and
probably decided to worry about the consequences later. It seems like
a fair percentage of the Irish population couldn't or wouldn't make a
deal and as a result, died.

I suggest a simple test for the morality of the situation. If you
lived in Ireland during the 1740 famine, and were offered a free ride
to America in trade for some vaguely non-specific work situation,
would you take it when the only alternatives were starvation or
cannibalism? No need to answer, just think about it.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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