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Boston Cycling - You make the call



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 30th 20, 08:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,586
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

writes:

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:21:02 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/

unclear to me.


Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.

I could probably get myself hit this way once a week if I pushed it.
Massachusetts drivers are really quite considerate when it comes to
giving someone a break, assuming they're good and stuck anyway. The
drivers so advantaged don't waste a lot of time squeezing in.


We are in agreement there. Plus I would be expecting a left turning
vehicle because of the traffic density. And these people normally try
and rush through the intersection because they are frustrated with the
traffic.


I'll bet that tickets were handed out in that vicinity for blocking an
intersection not too long ago.
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  #12  
Old July 30th 20, 08:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,586
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

Rolf Mantel writes:

Am 30.07.2020 um 15:02 schrieb Bertrand:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/


unclear to me.

Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left.* She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way.* Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.


I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a
collision not only with a left-turning car that you can't see, but
also with someone who decides at the last second to get out of that
traffic and turn right.* I probably would have approached that
intersection at no more than a fast walking pace.

What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there?* Just wait in
line with the other vehicles?


Rule 1 is "always chose a speed that allows you to stop in time".

So if you approach a junction where the "straight though" traffic is
not moving, you should have a max speed not more than 10mph.

When you approach a junction at 10 mph and see a car turning directly
into your path, you should be able to take avoiding action independent
of the driver's error (if you desparately need a new bike you might
still rely on the car yielding to you but it's not worth the hassle).


Exactly this does (or did, before the covids turned me into a
climb-the-stairs commuter) happen to me regularly. It's not even
alarming. If I see a slowly moving car to my left begin to slow even
more, leaving a gap in front, I know they're doing something. Sometimes
they're texting. Otherwise they're letting some poor ******* turn left
in front of them, or they're planning to turn right. If it's the left
turner I stop and yield the right of way. This is certainly not legally
required, but it's considered good manners in the local traffic culture.

Anyone negotiating traffic in Boston, with a bike, car, or motorcycle,
should figure out how this works in pretty short order.

  #13  
Old July 30th 20, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 9,174
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On 7/30/2020 3:22 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Bertrand writes:

https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/

unclear to me.

Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.


I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision
not only with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with
someone who decides at the last second to get out of that traffic and
turn right. I probably would have approached that intersection at no
more than a fast walking pace.

What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in
line with the other vehicles?


I can't speak to vehicular cyclist approval, but any cyclist waiting in
a long line of backed up cars in Massachusetts would be considered
mental, and possibly dangerous.


And I don't know any cyclist, including the Vehicular ones I know, who
would wait in such a long line.

However, I've seen cyclists who refuse to wait behind even three or four
cars at a traffic light. I've seen them get passed by motorists, filter
up to get ahead of those same motorists at a red light, and thus force
the motorists to pass them again within a hundred yards or so.

To me, that's no more logical than the "Must past bicyclist!!" motorists
who pass dangerously 100 yards before a red light.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old July 30th 20, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,944
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #15  
Old July 30th 20, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,985
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.


It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110 She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere, but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #16  
Old July 30th 20, 11:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 3:21:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.


It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110 She called me while writing that book.. I think I'm in it somewhere, but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did 36 miles and 2900 feet of climbing without a stop today. The final descent is about 600 feet and there was a cross wind and about 20 cars came by and them screwing the wind up have me weaving around a bit. They backed up at the bottom of the hill and the light changed and most of the cars were turning right because a block down was the freeway entrance.

I was going to pull over to the center of that lane and pass them on the outside but one butt head was being polite and I had to stay in the bike lane and pass him on the right. It was nice of him to know I was there and to try and be polite but I never know if his motor died and he has to restart it or if he was texting and he cuts me off at the last second. Well, made another ride alive. I wonder how many of these I have left?
  #17  
Old July 31st 20, 01:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:51 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/

unclear to me.


Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.


I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only
with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at
the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would
have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace.

What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with
the other vehicles?



I have one basic rule that has worked for all the years I've been
riding a bike. DON'T GET HIT!

Look both ways, look in front and in back, if in doubt get off and
walk, or any other action the prevents you from being hit.

Cheers,
John B.
  #18  
Old July 31st 20, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,586
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.


It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and
legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of
way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a
green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden
behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered
bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when
you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not
flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is
illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I
tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault
allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping
along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the
roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.


Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars
I'm not so sure about.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My
experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes
passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia
Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch
enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110
She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere,
but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a
bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over.


They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation.
  #19  
Old July 31st 20, 05:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,174
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On 7/30/2020 8:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:51 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/

unclear to me.

Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.


I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only
with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at
the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would
have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace.

What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with
the other vehicles?



I have one basic rule that has worked for all the years I've been
riding a bike. DON'T GET HIT!

Look both ways, look in front and in back, if in doubt get off and
walk, or any other action the prevents you from being hit.


That sounds fine, but here's the problem: some people have crazy ideas
on how best to not get hit.

Perhaps the most common misconception is that it's safer to ride facing
traffic. But there are others that are similarly ineffective or
impractical - for example, we hear from time to time that bicyclists
should "pretend you're invisible."

There really are details one must learn.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old July 31st 20, 05:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.


It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and
legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of
way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a
green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden
behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered
bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when
you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not
flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is
illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I
tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault
allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping
along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the
roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.


Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars
I'm not so sure about.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My
experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes
passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia
Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch
enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110
She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere,
but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a
bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over.


They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation.


Driving laws are pretty much universal because people moving from state to state for any reason have to all know how to drive correctly. So most states follow the suggestions of the Federal Highway Traffic Safety Commission.
 




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