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Boston Cycling - You make the call



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 31st 20, 06:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Perhaps the most common misconception is that it's safer to ride facing
traffic.


You should get the 2nd edition, then ...
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51BCTip8apL.jpg
eg
SCNR
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  #22  
Old July 31st 20, 07:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,586
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48,
wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.

It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and
legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of
way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a
green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden
behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered
bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when
you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not
flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is
illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I
tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault
allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping
along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the
roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.


Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars
I'm not so sure about.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My
experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes
passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia
Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch
enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110
She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere,
but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a
bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over.


They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation.


Driving laws are pretty much universal because people moving from
state to state for any reason have to all know how to drive
correctly. So most states follow the suggestions of the Federal
Highway Traffic Safety Commission.


I believe that 49 states out of 50 have adopted some variant of the
Uniform Vehicle Code. I live in the other one, which has maintained its
own code over many years by, for example, striking out "oxcart" and
writing in "bicycle".
  #23  
Old July 31st 20, 08:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 11:37:05 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48,
wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.

It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and
legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of
way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a
green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden
behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered
bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when
you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not
flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is
illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I
tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault
allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping
along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the
roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.

Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars
I'm not so sure about.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My
experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes
passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia
Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch
enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110
She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere,
but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a
bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over..

They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation.


Driving laws are pretty much universal because people moving from
state to state for any reason have to all know how to drive
correctly. So most states follow the suggestions of the Federal
Highway Traffic Safety Commission.


I believe that 49 states out of 50 have adopted some variant of the
Uniform Vehicle Code. I live in the other one, which has maintained its
own code over many years by, for example, striking out "oxcart" and
writing in "bicycle".


I can just picture speed limit signs for oxcarts. Though I do remember the days when it wasn't unusual to horses and buggies going into town. This was out in Tracy which was a little behind the times. The local junkman had a horse and wagon probably until he passed away.
  #24  
Old July 31st 20, 11:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,174
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On 7/31/2020 1:31 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Perhaps the most common misconception is that it's safer to ride facing
traffic.


You should get the 2nd edition, then ...
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51BCTip8apL.jpg
eg
SCNR


Wow! That's funny and scary at the same time!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old August 1st 20, 12:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,985
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 11:37:05 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48,
wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.

It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and
legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of
way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a
green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden
behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered
bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when
you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not
flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is
illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I
tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault
allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping
along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the
roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.

Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars
I'm not so sure about.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My
experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes
passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia
Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch
enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110
She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere,
but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a
bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over..

They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation.


Driving laws are pretty much universal because people moving from
state to state for any reason have to all know how to drive
correctly. So most states follow the suggestions of the Federal
Highway Traffic Safety Commission.


I believe that 49 states out of 50 have adopted some variant of the
Uniform Vehicle Code. I live in the other one, which has maintained its
own code over many years by, for example, striking out "oxcart" and
writing in "bicycle".


Mass. Gen. Laws Ch. 89
Section 3: Sleigh or sled; bells
Section 3. No person shall travel on a way with a sleigh or sled drawn by a horse, unless there are at least three bells attached to some part of the harness.

F*** that! I woke up in a FREE COUNTRY! I'm not putting three stinkin' bells on my horse.


Ch. 85

Section 11E: Traffic law violations by bicyclist
Section 11E. A police officer who observes a traffic law violation committed by a bicyclist may request the offender to state his true name and address. Whoever, upon such request, refuses to state his name and address or whoever states a false name and address or a name and address which is not his name and address in ordinary use, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $20 nor more than $50. An offender who refuses to state his true name and address may be arrested without a warrant for such refusal but no person shall be arrested without a warrant for any other traffic law violation committed while operating a bicycle. A police officer shall use the ticketing procedure described in chapter 90C to cite a bicyclist for a traffic law violation but the violation shall not affect the status of the bicyclist's license to operate a motor vehicle nor shall it affect the bicyclist's status in the safe driver insurance plan. When a citation is issued to a bicyclist, it shall be clearly indicated on the ticket that the violator is a bicyclist, and failure to do so shall be a defense to the violation.

The parent or guardian of a person under 18 years of age shall not authorize or knowingly permit that person to violate this section. A violation of this section by a person under 18 years of age shall not affect any civil right or liability nor shall the violation be a criminal offense. If the offender is under 16 years of age, the officer may give the notice to the parent or guardian of the offender.

All fines collected by a city or town pursuant to this section shall be used by the city or town for the development and implementation of bicycle safety programs.

My "true name" is The Road Warrior, and I am a free person.

-- Jay Beattie (a name foisted upon me by The Man).
  #26  
Old August 1st 20, 01:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,127
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:00:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/30/2020 8:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:51 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/

unclear to me.

Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.

I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only
with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at
the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would
have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace.

What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with
the other vehicles?



I have one basic rule that has worked for all the years I've been
riding a bike. DON'T GET HIT!

Look both ways, look in front and in back, if in doubt get off and
walk, or any other action the prevents you from being hit.


That sounds fine, but here's the problem: some people have crazy ideas
on how best to not get hit.

Perhaps the most common misconception is that it's safer to ride facing
traffic. But there are others that are similarly ineffective or
impractical - for example, we hear from time to time that bicyclists
should "pretend you're invisible."

There really are details one must learn.


I think that you make it much more complicated then it actually is.
You say, riding like you are invisible is a misconception yet in a
great many crashes the automobile driver says "I didn't see him". In
short my philosophy of "don't get hit" is far simpler and more or less
all compassing.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #28  
Old August 1st 20, 02:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 4:31:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 11:37:05 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48,
wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/




unclear to me.


Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not
have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must
wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a
hit-and-run.

The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped
traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a
lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do
that.

Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while
lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them
don't really need social security, they won't live that long.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get
through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn
lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another
case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San
Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and
no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass
coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph
or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him.
From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic
in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after
all.


I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a
while I do not trust green lights.

It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and
legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of
way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a
green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden
behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered
bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when
you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not
flying along.

If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is
illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I
tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault
allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping
along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the
roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap.

Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars
I'm not so sure about.

I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My
experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes
passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia
Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch
enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110
She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere,
but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a
bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over.

They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation.

  #29  
Old August 1st 20, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,174
Default Boston Cycling - You make the call

On 7/31/2020 8:20 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:00:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/30/2020 8:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:51 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/

unclear to me.

Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not
block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not
watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I
don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the
right of stopped traffic.

I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only
with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at
the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would
have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace.

What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with
the other vehicles?


I have one basic rule that has worked for all the years I've been
riding a bike. DON'T GET HIT!

Look both ways, look in front and in back, if in doubt get off and
walk, or any other action the prevents you from being hit.


That sounds fine, but here's the problem: some people have crazy ideas
on how best to not get hit.

Perhaps the most common misconception is that it's safer to ride facing
traffic. But there are others that are similarly ineffective or
impractical - for example, we hear from time to time that bicyclists
should "pretend you're invisible."

There really are details one must learn.


I think that you make it much more complicated then it actually is.
You say, riding like you are invisible is a misconception yet in a
great many crashes the automobile driver says "I didn't see him". In
short my philosophy of "don't get hit" is far simpler and more or less
all compassing.


I'm well aware of "SMIDSY" - "Sorry, mate, I didn't see you." But
"pretend you're invisible" is no solution. That would require yielding
right-of-way to every motorist every time in every circumstance.

"Ride in a position that makes you visible" is much better advice.

"Don't get hit" is not instructive. It raises the question "But how??"

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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