Road Rage Incident - Did I do the right thing?

GaryG wrote:
So, I'm out on my regular training route this afternoon minding my own
business. The area is rural, and the road is narrow, with a 45 mph
speed limit. I ride this route a lot, and many of the locals know me
and wave, but there's this one peckerwood redneck who doesn't like
bikes on the road.

No need for such words as in the last sentence...

[snip]

Anyway, I'm wondering if I did the right thing. My SO says that I
should have just ignored him, and may have made the situation worse.
But damnit, I'm a guy, and I've had friends hit and killed by cars,
and I think it's OK to stand up for our rights on the road.

What do you all think?

Well, I can hardly blame you. Cyclist do need to stand up for their rights,
or risk losing them.

Glad you weren't hurt.

GaryG wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"GaryG" wrote: (clip) Unfortunately, I didn't get his license
plate,(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In my opinion, that is the only thing you did wrong. There is a fair
chance
you will see that truck again. Have a pen and pad handy.



Yeah...damnit. I was kicking myself for that all the way home.

I have an old voice recorder (digital, flash memory) that I'm thinking about
carrying with me for this reason.

Jeff Starr wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:34:30 -0500, "psycholist"
wrote:

"MJR" wrote in message
groups.com...
-- because it permits you to do ANYTHING. Stupidity will
even rule over courage and love. (hence our current President).

how all the liberals and democrats can do nothing
constructive, cannot make a positive contribution to anything and have
become completely obstructionist in their approach to everything. We have a
president who is working very hard to tackle some very tough problems. I
don't see any democrats doing anything but taking cowardly cheap shots like
the one you've posted here. Get a spine!

So, should I assume that this is how "all" republicans react to an
unnecessary comment.
You have just insulted all liberals and democrats, based on the
statements of one, is this a demonstration of a republican taking the
high road?

The post psycholist was replying to insulted a majority of the voters
in the US (implying stupidity on their part) while psycholist's
"insult" was aimed at polititians (since I doubt he is suggesting that
somehow the rank and file voter can somehow personally affect the
changes, other than by electing those who will do so).

So while psycholist's road may not be the very highest one possible,
it's certainly a few switchbacks above the original poster (which
didn't seem to register on your generalization-alert-meter).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

AustinMN wrote:
GaryG wrote:
What do you all think?

You already know you should have gotten the person's plate number.

I had just enough problems in Massachusetts that I memorized "MGL
Chapter 85, section 11B Every person operating a bicycle upon a way,
as defined in section one of chapter ninety, shall have the right to
use all public ways in the Commonwealth except limited access or
express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles
have been posted."

Then I would state that my operation was a right, and theirs was a
privilege requiring a license. That _usually_ got them to leave in a
huff.

You might try memorizing the same, or caving a copy of your bike laws
(with sections defining your rights highlighted) just to hand him and
go on your way.

Good stuff, Austin!

jj wrote:

However at the point where the guy says he almost had a wreck it might have
been best to say "I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope in the future we
can share the road", and offered to shake his hand. You know - appeal to
the 'man to man' spirit in him.

I had a guy do a "brush-back drive-by" in a mini-van, and I caught him
down the road (they never think that's gonna happen, do they?).

The guy was getting out of the mini-van, and since no self-respecting
male would drive one of those things unless he absolutely had to, I
figured he had kids.

I asked him "So do you like it when drivers do that to YOUR KIDS?"

I saw the light bulb come on over his head... he seemed contrite when
he offered me an apology.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Guys -- Crossfire's been cancelled. Give it a rest, or take it elsewhere.

Gary brought up an important topic: what's the best way to deal with being
confronted and harassed by an aggressive driver?

Matt O.


Mark Hickey wrote:
Jeff Starr wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:34:30 -0500, "psycholist"
wrote:

"MJR" wrote in message
oups.com...
-- because it permits you to do ANYTHING. Stupidity will
even rule over courage and love. (hence our current President).

how all the liberals and democrats can do nothing
constructive, cannot make a positive contribution to anything and
have become completely obstructionist in their approach to
everything. We have a president who is working very hard to tackle
some very tough problems. I don't see any democrats doing anything
but taking cowardly cheap shots like the one you've posted here.
Get a spine!

So, should I assume that this is how "all" republicans react to an
unnecessary comment.
You have just insulted all liberals and democrats, based on the
statements of one, is this a demonstration of a republican taking the
high road?

The post psycholist was replying to insulted a majority of the voters
in the US (implying stupidity on their part) while psycholist's
"insult" was aimed at polititians (since I doubt he is suggesting that
somehow the rank and file voter can somehow personally affect the
changes, other than by electing those who will do so).

So while psycholist's road may not be the very highest one possible,
it's certainly a few switchbacks above the original poster (which
didn't seem to register on your generalization-alert-meter).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

jj wrote:
...

In the future (sure, get his license number), be alert and if you see
him
pull over and stop until he goes by - or even better turn off that
street,
and have no other reaction. This will rob him of his fun.

I agree with getting his license number - although that's amazingly
difficult to do in times of stress. (I need to add a pencil and paper
to my handlebar bag.)

But I can't imagine ceding my right to the road to such a jerk. Seems
to me he'd be having fun with that. "Look, that biker gets off the
road every time he sees me coming."



What I did one time was try to make friends with the guy who wanted
to
harrass me. I rode up and got off the bike and apologized to -him-,
and it
really got him off guard.


I like the idea of psychological jiu-jitsu - but what on earth did you
apologize for? Riding a bike on a public road? I won't do that. My
right - no, _our_ right to the road is literally sacred to me.

If I were to use psychology on such a person, it might be by
registering a) absolute confidence and b) amusement at his stupidity.
And what I'd be saying wouldn't be "I apologize for being here," but
"Your license number is XXXXX. Your vehicle is a red Ford pickup.
You're about 5' 6". And in fifteen minutes, the sherrif is going to
know all of those things. He already knows about my right to the
road."

Having said that, changing the atmosphere to a friendly one is
_extremely_ valuable. Perhaps my script above needs to end with an
offer to be friendly? Any ideas about that?

Admittedly, it can be tough to pull all this off in the heat of the
moment. And admittedly, I have very few occasions to practice it. But
the reason for these discussions is so we can do the mental rehearsals,
right?

psycholist wrote:

It sounds to me like you mean to make every short, fat guy in your
area an enemy of cyclists.

Going toe-to-toe with a jerk who already nearly ran you off the road
doesn't qualify you as the sharpest knife in the drawer. That's not
to say I wouldn't have done the same thing were I in your shoes. But
I'd probably have kicked myself afterward for my stupidity.

There are some crazy folks out there. No point in provoking them.
This idiot who shot up the Atlanta courthouse yesterday might very
well be in my area this morning. It's been said he has people near
here. I'd sure hate to flip him off for passing too close.

I heard something interesting on the radio the other day. NPR interviewed the
creator of Law and Order, who spent a lot of time with real cops for research.
He talked about the common TV/movie scenario, when someone threatened by a gun
challenges the gunman to "go ahead and shoot me." On TV the gunman realizes
what an ass he's being and chickens out. But in real life, he pulls the
trigger! Apparently this is exceedingly common. Witnesses often report such
exchanges having taken place just before the gunshot was heard.

Moral of the story: don't ever do this! Literally or figuratively...

Realize you're dealing with someone who's already in "fight or flight" mode, and
has chosen to fight. An aggressive response by you is likely to be met in kind.
The real skill to have here is to be able to diffuse the situation, not "win"
the argument.

Matt O.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:52:10 -0700, Mark Hickey
wrote:


The post psycholist was replying to insulted a majority of the voters
in the US (implying stupidity on their part) while psycholist's
"insult" was aimed at polititians (since I doubt he is suggesting that
somehow the rank and file voter can somehow personally affect the
changes, other than by electing those who will do so).

So while psycholist's road may not be the very highest one possible,
it's certainly a few switchbacks above the original poster (which
didn't seem to register on your generalization-alert-meter).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Yup, it's interesting that you are willing to make assumptions and
interpret pycholist's comments to be the lesser of the two comments.
As usual, you republicans can do no wrong, but us liberals is evil.

Sorry Matt, I did comment on the topic, in my last post, but I just
couldn't this time. I am done though, now that Hickey, has set me
straight.


Life is Good!
Jeff

On 12 Mar 2005 11:01:07 -0800, wrote:

On 12 Mar 2005 11:01:07 -0800, wrote:

What I did one time was try to make friends with the guy who wanted
to harrass me. I rode up and got off the bike and apologized to -him-,
and it really got him off guard.


I like the idea of psychological jiu-jitsu - but what on earth did you
apologize for? Riding a bike on a public road? I won't do that. My
right - no, _our_ right to the road is literally sacred to me.

I wasn't clear enough. This guy was a pedestrian and I hollered at him to
control his dog who was chasing me. I rode up when we met on the
turn-around and said 'sorry to come off as upset before', and offered a
handshake. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than capable of handling myself.

If I were to use psychology on such a person, it might be by
registering a) absolute confidence and b) amusement at his stupidity.
And what I'd be saying wouldn't be "I apologize for being here," but
"Your license number is XXXXX. Your vehicle is a red Ford pickup.
You're about 5' 6". And in fifteen minutes, the sherrif is going to
know all of those things. He already knows about my right to the
road."

Sounds fine. Again, even though you might bring justice, you'll then start
feeling a little edgy when you ride this area or when you see the person,
whereas if you are able to make a friend, you'll always feel good about it
or better yet forget about it. So rather than saying 'apologize to him',
let me amend to 'make a friend, look for an opening to commiserate, get him
to see you as a member of his group (hard worker, american, male, etc.),
and try to defuse.'

Having said that, changing the atmosphere to a friendly one is
_extremely_ valuable. Perhaps my script above needs to end with an
offer to be friendly? Any ideas about that?

Oops, I'm replying on the fly. So yeah. Get him on your side.

Admittedly, it can be tough to pull all this off in the heat of the
moment. And admittedly, I have very few occasions to practice it. But
the reason for these discussions is so we can do the mental rehearsals,
right?

I try to use 'right talk' to mentally tell myself good biking thoughts,
including things about encounters. Hopefully they'll internalize.

For me the key is to keep these encounters short, and leave friends and
then forget about it. I'll be riding a long time and don't want to be
making enemies where I live. It's extremely important to make them short -
otherwise you risk the person drawing you into his verbal ju-jitsu.

jj