Chain Lube?

On 11/14/2018 6:49 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:37:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

BTW, one thing I noticed during our recent trip to Europe: Europeans
seem to use leather saddles far more than Americans do.

Brands?

Sorry, I wasn't paying that much attention. I did see some Brooks, but
mostly I was just thinking "Hmm, yet another leather saddle" and
continuing on by.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/14/2018 9:03 PM, James wrote:
On 15/11/18 5:36 am, jbeattie wrote:


I've used both -- and think they suck.Â* Hot wax is too much work as
are leather saddles in a wet environment.Â* My old Ideal 90 was
growing mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a
plastic saddle guy.

I might try wax again during the summer just to annoy myself, but I'm
going to make it super-technical wax with PTFE and moly
this-and-that. I might even try some race ski wax or something out of
the ski box.Â* I'll iron it on.

Maybe I'll go back to sew-ups!Â* I bought a new turntable a while
back, and I'm considering a steam-powered computer. As I approach
retirement, I'm looking for things to occupy my time besides
drinking. Here's something:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/...c304ca8c38.jpg I never
did figure out how to get the diamond pattern with Benotto tape.

Tonight I'm going to put reflective tape on my commuter -- some
super-swanky red and white stuff.

Why not add some reflective particles to the wax lube, and have a
super-swanky reflective chain?

You may be on to something! Glass beads are reflective.
https://www.reflectivebeads.com/
And of course, they're spherical, just like ball bearings. All we have
to do is make them small enough so they'll squeeze into the space
between the pins, sideplates, rollers etc. No more metal to metal
contact, plus nighttime bling!

Really, you can't be safe without a reflective chain on your bike. Why,
if only ONE life can be saved...!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:03:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I'm actually afraid to go into Clever Cycles while wearing lycra for fear that I will be openly derided or hustled into the back room for a wool intervention -- and then forced to ride a Brompton with a dyno hub!

Ah, Jay, you have so much to learn!

This is a legitimate fear. https://s2-ssl.dmcdn.net/iYGwF/x1080-Nm1.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuKIArmEjJM Tell me that woman has not been body-snatched by the Brompton pod people. Here she is in a rain cape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwqCGPJOg7k Nobody in his or her right mind uses a rain cape except maybe the tweed people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr6wY9ifYmE.

Real rain riding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU There are other scary shops I avoid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TSMp6f-9z4&t=17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvG51TC3gOA&t=59s


My best bicycling buddy has agreed to shoot me if I show up on a recumbent. Death with dignity!


-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/14/2018 9:24 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:03:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I'm actually afraid to go into Clever Cycles while wearing lycra for fear that I will be openly derided or hustled into the back room for a wool intervention -- and then forced to ride a Brompton with a dyno hub!

Ah, Jay, you have so much to learn!

This is a legitimate fear. https://s2-ssl.dmcdn.net/iYGwF/x1080-Nm1.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuKIArmEjJM Tell me that woman has not been body-snatched by the Brompton pod people.

I think Bromptons are really cool. I remember a proud Brompton owner in
Helsinki telling me it changed his life. It allowed him to take the
train into the city, then easily get to work without a car. And he
demonstrated the Brompton's amazing folding, both super-quick and
extremely compact.

Nobody in his or her right mind uses a rain cape except maybe the tweed people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr6wY9ifYmE.

Hey, how did they sneak a video of me into YouTube?? ;-)

There was a Yehuda Moon comic I can't find now. He chanced upon a bunch
of people dressed in wool sport coats, wool caps, riding antique-looking
bikes. Several told him things like "Lovely costume, old chap!" His
response was something like : "What?? There's a tweed ride??"

Real rain riding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU

Too stylish for me by far.

There are other scary shops I avoid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TSMp6f-9z4&t=17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvG51TC3gOA&t=59s

Supposedly, one of the biggest Cat Trike dealers in the U.S. is about 30
miles from me, in a tiny town at the end of a long bike trail.

But I've tried recumbents. I'm not convinced.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/14/2018 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I've used both -- and think they suck. Hot wax is too much work as are leather saddles in a wet environment. My old Ideal 90 was growing mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a plastic saddle guy.

I have tried hot was. I came to the same conclusion as all the experts:

-----
"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.

"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel

"If you use dry lube or wax, follow product directions and use it often.
In some cases, dry lube should be used for every ride. It wears off very
quickly and no new lube can flow to the critical wear areas." Craig
Metalcraft, manufacturer of Super Link III.

"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown

-----

What I have NOT tried is wax mixed with oil or other wet lube. I suspect
that this would work because the oil is mobile, but leaving out the wax
would make it work as well.

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:15:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 9:03 PM, James wrote:
On 15/11/18 5:36 am, jbeattie wrote:


I've used both -- and think they suck.Â* Hot wax is too much work as
are leather saddles in a wet environment.Â* My old Ideal 90 was
growing mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a
plastic saddle guy.

I might try wax again during the summer just to annoy myself, but I'm
going to make it super-technical wax with PTFE and moly
this-and-that. I might even try some race ski wax or something out of
the ski box.Â* I'll iron it on.

Maybe I'll go back to sew-ups!Â* I bought a new turntable a while
back, and I'm considering a steam-powered computer. As I approach
retirement, I'm looking for things to occupy my time besides
drinking. Here's something:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/...c304ca8c38.jpg I never
did figure out how to get the diamond pattern with Benotto tape.

Tonight I'm going to put reflective tape on my commuter -- some
super-swanky red and white stuff.

Why not add some reflective particles to the wax lube, and have a
super-swanky reflective chain?

You may be on to something! Glass beads are reflective.
https://www.reflectivebeads.com/
And of course, they're spherical, just like ball bearings. All we have
to do is make them small enough so they'll squeeze into the space
between the pins, sideplates, rollers etc. No more metal to metal
contact, plus nighttime bling!

Really, you can't be safe without a reflective chain on your bike. Why,
if only ONE life can be saved...!


Riders in the town of Ikea, Sweden, were given reflective chains, and the number of single-bike accidents dropped by 23.7% When combined with hoop earrings and multi-color clown wigs, the rate dropped by 26.8%

-- Jay Beattie.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 11/14/2018 9:24 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:03:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I'm actually afraid to go into Clever Cycles while wearing lycra
for fear that I will be openly derided or hustled into the back
room for a wool intervention -- and then forced to ride a Brompton
with a dyno hub!

Ah, Jay, you have so much to learn!

This is a legitimate
fear. https://s2-ssl.dmcdn.net/iYGwF/x1080-Nm1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuKIArmEjJM Tell me that woman has
not been body-snatched by the Brompton pod people.

I think Bromptons are really cool. I remember a proud Brompton owner
in Helsinki telling me it changed his life. It allowed him to take the
train into the city, then easily get to work without a car. And he
demonstrated the Brompton's amazing folding, both super-quick and
extremely compact.

Nobody in his or her right mind uses a rain cape except maybe the
tweed people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr6wY9ifYmE.

Hey, how did they sneak a video of me into YouTube?? ;-)

There was a Yehuda Moon comic I can't find now. He chanced upon a
bunch of people dressed in wool sport coats, wool caps, riding
antique-looking bikes. Several told him things like "Lovely costume,
old chap!" His response was something like : "What?? There's a tweed
ride??"

http://rebelmetropolis.org/wp-conten...011-04-306.gif

On 11/15/2018 6:56 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Riders in the town of Ikea, Sweden, were given reflective chains, and the number of single-bike accidents dropped by 23.7% When combined with hoop earrings and multi-color clown wigs, the rate dropped by 26.8%

Be careful about anything bicycle related from Ikea, Sweden:
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/about_ikea/newsitem/052418_recall-IKEA-SLADDA-bicycle

On 11/15/2018 9:45 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/14/2018 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I've used both -- and think they suck.Â* Hot wax is too much work as
are leather saddles in a wet environment.Â* My old Ideal 90 was growing
mold-fur, and my Brooks was never comfortable. I was always a plastic
saddle guy.

I have tried hot was. I came to the same conclusion as all the experts:

-----
"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.

"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel

"If you use dry lube or wax, follow product directions and use it often.
In some cases, dry lube should be used for every ride. It wears off very
quickly and no new lube can flow to the critical wear areas." Craig
Metalcraft, manufacturer of Super Link III.

"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown

Yawn. Typical Scharf. No data, just decades-old speculation and opinions.

Links to relevant data have been given here many times. Sharf (AKA
"sms") refuses to read them.

For example, from
https://www.bikeradar.com/us/news/ar...iciency-35694/

"Smith has used that data to develop his own 'UltraFast' chain, which is
essentially the fastest chain he's tested (Shimano's Dura-Ace CN-7901)
ultrasonically cleaned and treated with a blend of paraffin wax, pure
PTFE, and molybdenum sulfide lubricants. This recipe produces, Smith
says, provides the lowest consistently measureable frictional losses of
everything he’s tested."

Other sources give similar results for pure paraffin wax, and show that
chain life is longest with a paraffin wax based lubricant.

What I have NOT tried is wax mixed with oil or other wet lube. I suspect
that this would work because the oil is mobile, but leaving out the wax
would make it work as well.

IME, the only downside of pure paraffin is that it squeaks after rain.
It actually keeps the drivetrain cleaner than wax plus a bit of oil. But
the addition of maybe 5% oil removes the squeak-after-rain problem, and
it still keeps the chain, cogs, chainwheels and bike FAR cleaner than
any ordinary oil lubricant.

BTW, this is why the "cleaning the bike" thread is uninteresting to me.
My bikes are rarely dirty enough to need attention. When I clean them,
I'm usually just wiping off road dust. I do that with a paper towel
soaked in Pledge spray-on wax.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/15/2018 11:41 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 11/14/2018 9:24 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 6:03:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2018 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I'm actually afraid to go into Clever Cycles while wearing lycra
for fear that I will be openly derided or hustled into the back
room for a wool intervention -- and then forced to ride a Brompton
with a dyno hub!

Ah, Jay, you have so much to learn!

This is a legitimate
fear. https://s2-ssl.dmcdn.net/iYGwF/x1080-Nm1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuKIArmEjJM Tell me that woman has
not been body-snatched by the Brompton pod people.

I think Bromptons are really cool. I remember a proud Brompton owner
in Helsinki telling me it changed his life. It allowed him to take the
train into the city, then easily get to work without a car. And he
demonstrated the Brompton's amazing folding, both super-quick and
extremely compact.

Nobody in his or her right mind uses a rain cape except maybe the
tweed people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr6wY9ifYmE.

Hey, how did they sneak a video of me into YouTube?? ;-)

There was a Yehuda Moon comic I can't find now. He chanced upon a
bunch of people dressed in wool sport coats, wool caps, riding
antique-looking bikes. Several told him things like "Lovely costume,
old chap!" His response was something like : "What?? There's a tweed
ride??"

http://rebelmetropolis.org/wp-conten...011-04-306.gif

Ah! Thanks!

(How did you find it?)

--
- Frank Krygowski