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  #41  
Old December 9th 19, 03:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bike adjustments

On 12/8/2019 8:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 16:17:36 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 23:32:55 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 04:00:35 -0800, sms
wrote:

Manufacturers got tired of manufacturing ten different frame sizes so
now they'll make four to six different "compact" frame sizes and use
various combinations of seat posts, stems, and spacers to make things
fit?kind of, sort of.

Agreed. That sort of works:
https://www.thegeekycyclist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/An-Adult-on-A-Kids-Bike-1024x865.jpg


I’m not sure where you would get the seat post, stem and spacers to make
that bike work, but aside from way too much frame flex and steering that
would feel like a tiller, I suppose you could make it work.


Probably not. I recently gave away a Trek 1400 road bike:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/Trek-1400.html
I really liked the bicycle, but the frame was too small for me. I
forgot the official frame size, but it seemed to be made for someone
smaller and shorter. I could extend the seat post, stem, crank
length, and handlebars. However I could do nothing to prevent my feet
from hitting the trailing end of the front wheel.


Not to argue about your bike size but "toe interference" or "toe
overlap" as it is called is quite common. At least one company,
"Thorn Cycles" used to mention that a bike had "toe overlap" in their
catalog. Generally more common in high performance bikes. Sheldon
mentions it and says, " Many, many people ride bicycles with fairly
severe overlap with no practical problems"


That does seem to bother some people more than others. My bikes have
fenders, which increases the overlap. It's been that way for decades and
never caused me a problem.

But I've been on a ride with a friend who managed to topple when pulling
away from a stop sign because of the overlap. He was talking while we
were stopped and didn't realize that he'd turned his steering so the
rear of the tire was outside his toe. As soon as he started up, he
realized it, but too late.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #42  
Old December 9th 19, 03:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Bike adjustments

On 12/8/2019 7:48 PM, James wrote:
On 8/12/19 10:28 am, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was
measured last
Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The
measuring program
didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into
account in
contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange
because most
of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy
day yesterday
so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I
adjusted
by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike.
Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round
trip) to
discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the
shop a
drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show
the
measurements of the position of the shifter on the
handlebar and this
came very close what I measured on my bikes especially
measurement E,
F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct
frame size
taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and
the new
Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my
measurements into
account. My question is what do these measurement programs
exactly
do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these
measurements?


The last bike I bought (gravel) was advertised with a chart
that was scaled to leg length. According to my leg length I
should have chosen an XL frame, but I reviewed the frame
angles and geometry against my custom road racing bike, and
decided on a L size frame. The XL would have had my hands
too high. Even so, with the L frame I have the head stem
all the way down, and I used a longer stem than the supplied
one of course, and I used a longer seat post too.

I also dislike the sloping top tube "compact" design, for
the simple reasons that;

a) longer frame tubes would probably weigh less than a long
seat post, and a longer seat post likely stresses the frame
more.

b) the sloping top tube is very difficult to sit on while
you're stopped somewhere to admire the view and eat a banana.

c) the area in the triangle is reduced which restricts that
available to carry water bottles or frame bags and stuff, if
you so desire.


While bucking current fashion, you are not alone.

The #1 item in custom orders is 'level top tube'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #43  
Old December 9th 19, 04:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bike adjustments

On 12/8/2019 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 11:20:44 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/8/2019 9:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 4:02:37 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 8:20:33 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.

It used to be much simpler. Buy a bike that you could stand over; set
the seat height and position; set the stem position; ride the bike and
make any more changes.

It still works for me :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes I remembered that time, where all frames had horizontal top tubes, only 2 saddles and handlebars to choose from and of course that awful quill stem. Most of the time people rode to large frames. That time passed thank god.

Lou

And those saddles were absolutely horrible. A leather saddle that would take a year of heavy riding to break in or a Regal saddle that would chaff you between the legs so badly that you could hardly walk after a long ride.


Those were terrible, terrible times! Oh, the agony bicyclists endured!

The only people on bikes back then must have been the crazies and the
masochists. Thank God the marketing industry has saved us!


Granted that I am a cynic but I wonder whether all the folderol about
bike fitting is simply to justify the several hundred dollars that
being "properly" fitted costs?
See https://www.bcbikefit.com/pricing/

Just think 2 hours and $395 and your "mobile" bike will fit.

To be honest though, I'm not exactly sure what a "mobile" bike is? Are
there immobile bikes?


Doesn't your corner of the planet have Spin Classes and Peloton (TM)
bikes? You get to work up a sweat while going nowhere.

OK for winter, I guess, if it's your thing. But it's hard for me to
understand driving to a spin class any time of year, especially if it's
not winter.

BTW, a Peloton ad recently got the internet's ire up.
https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/pelot...icized-ad.html


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #44  
Old December 9th 19, 05:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Bike adjustments

On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 22:05:44 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/8/2019 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 11:20:44 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/8/2019 9:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 4:02:37 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 8:20:33 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.

It used to be much simpler. Buy a bike that you could stand over; set
the seat height and position; set the stem position; ride the bike and
make any more changes.

It still works for me :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes I remembered that time, where all frames had horizontal top tubes, only 2 saddles and handlebars to choose from and of course that awful quill stem. Most of the time people rode to large frames. That time passed thank god.

Lou

And those saddles were absolutely horrible. A leather saddle that would take a year of heavy riding to break in or a Regal saddle that would chaff you between the legs so badly that you could hardly walk after a long ride.

Those were terrible, terrible times! Oh, the agony bicyclists endured!

The only people on bikes back then must have been the crazies and the
masochists. Thank God the marketing industry has saved us!


Granted that I am a cynic but I wonder whether all the folderol about
bike fitting is simply to justify the several hundred dollars that
being "properly" fitted costs?
See https://www.bcbikefit.com/pricing/

Just think 2 hours and $395 and your "mobile" bike will fit.

To be honest though, I'm not exactly sure what a "mobile" bike is? Are
there immobile bikes?


Doesn't your corner of the planet have Spin Classes and Peloton (TM)
bikes? You get to work up a sweat while going nowhere.

Yup. My neighbor, the Cop, has one and I see him most mornings
pedalling away. But I didn't know it was called an "immobile". I
looked on the Internet and they seem to be now called a " fitness
tracker". Strange, I always thought that they were called a
"stationary bicycle", but of course that's wrong too as they only have
one "wheel" :-)

OK for winter, I guess, if it's your thing. But it's hard for me to
understand driving to a spin class any time of year, especially if it's
not winter.


It is "winter" here although typically it should be the Dry Season
with reasonable temperatures but it is down to 20 degrees (C) which is
tremendously cold for here. Everyone is wearing great padded coats and
long trousers.
According to the Weather Bureau it is a gift from China.

BTW, a Peloton ad recently got the internet's ire up.
https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/pelot...icized-ad.html


Well, I thought that the film was a bit on the "wacky" side but I
don't think it was anything to get upset about. Really no different
than "Honey, do you want to hear what I did today?" is it?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #45  
Old December 9th 19, 07:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,563
Default Bike adjustments

On 09/12/2019 03:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 17:56:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 08:02:36 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Not to argue about your bike size but "toe interference" or "toe
overlap" as it is called is quite common. At least one company,
"Thorn Cycles" used to mention that a bike had "toe overlap" in
their catalog. Generally more common in high performance bikes.


Yep, anything with a steep head tube angle and a short wheelbase
will have the problem. I managed to make things worse by routinely
wearing steel toe construction boots while riding. It became an
issue after several low speed crashes while cornering. On my Trek
1400, I once measured the angle on the front wheel where my toe
might overlap the front wheel. Methinks it was a fairly large 30
degrees, with the forward motion of my heel stopped by the pedal.
I just checked my Gary Fisher Tassajara:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/Gary-Fisher-Tassajara.html


and found about 5 degrees overlap (again with construction boots). I
previously tried to use toe clips to reduce the toe interference on
my Trek 1400, but couldn't find toe clips that would also work
with platform pedals (so that the waffle pattern soles will slide
easily).

?? https://www.amazon.com/bicycle-toe-c...ycle+toe+clips

I could probably have made something work with custom front fork
extensions and disk brakes, which would increase the wheelbase,
but didn't think it was worth the effort.

Sheldon mentions it and says, " Many, many people ride bicycles
with fairly severe overlap with no practical problems"


My other bicycles have a longer wheelbase and therefore less of a
toe interference problem.


I'm not up on "modern" bicycles as all my bikes are "classic" steel
frame, level top tube, etc., and they all have toe overlap and I
have never found it to be a problem as I can't imagine ever turning
the wheel far enough to hit my toe at even walking speeds,


Imo it affects commuters more who may often be using high turning angles
maneuvering around street furniture, pedestrians, junctions etc. Also,
adding mudguards doesn't help :-(

If I start out up a hill than yes, perhaps for the first revolution
or so of the crank I will be traveling slowly enough to have too turn
the wheel back and forth, far enough to hit my toe, to keep balanced
but other than that I have never had a problem.

But from your posts you seem to be an electronic sort of guy. Do
electronic guys wear hulking great boots? -- cheers,

John B.


  #46  
Old December 9th 19, 08:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Bike adjustments

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 09:17:13 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 17:31:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 07:30:37 +0700, John B.
wrote:

To be honest though, I'm not exactly sure what a "mobile" bike is? Are
there immobile bikes?


Yes, there is such a thing as an immovable bicycle:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=wrought+iron+bicycle
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+sculpture
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=inflatable+advertising+bicycle
etc...


Ah yes. But does one have to pay good money to be fitted to them :-)


No. However, you don't need to ride such a bicycle to be subject to
various charges. There are planning fees, construction permits,
environmental impact reports, aesthetic committee approval charges,
inspection fees, assorted licenses, and the usual bribes required to
deploy a non-moving bicycle. Think of these as converting your good
private sector money into their bad public sector money.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #47  
Old December 9th 19, 08:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Bike adjustments

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 12:57:20 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 04:02:35 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 8:20:33 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.

It used to be much simpler. Buy a bike that you could stand over; set
the seat height and position; set the stem position; ride the bike and
make any more changes.

It still works for me :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Yes I remembered that time, where all frames had horizontal top tubes, only 2 saddles and handlebars to choose from and of course that awful quill stem. Most of the time people rode to large frames. That time passed thank god.

Lou


Really? And just how are modern bikes fitted better? Do your feet
reach the pedals better? Do your hands reach the handlebars better?


Never said that. Chosing a bike frame by just stand over height doesn't work anymore with sloping top tubes and handlebars that come in different shapes (drop and reach).


But tell us how far back your memories reach. Brooks, for example made
various models of bicycle seats in 1880
--


You are playing silly again.

Lou

  #48  
Old December 9th 19, 08:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Bike adjustments

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 1:05:13 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 9:38:30 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 6:11:23 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 11:03:34 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.

What brand?

-- Jay Beattie.


I think John and Frank can't handle it ;-) American made and it replaces my Litespeed as bad weather bike and for light off road use. You figure it out ;-).


If it's the US Ti gravel bike I think, then that purchase (depending on component group) may measurably affect the trade balance between the US and NL. Considering the amount of actual gravel riding I do, I'm more than content with my bargain Norco Search CF. I'm going to spend my money on some better tires, though.

-- Jay Beattie.


I understand. The insurance company of the woman that knocked me of my bike last year paid me an unexpected amount of compensation for the suffered inconvenience beside the compensation for the damage to my bike, I sold my ATB's, got a bonus for granted patents and I'm trading in my Litespeed (new bike means another bike has to go; new policy ;-)). All that money went into the 'for a new gravel bike' jar. We are not getting any younger and the house is paid for since a couple of years. 15 years ago I had other priorities.


Lou
  #49  
Old December 9th 19, 09:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Bike adjustments

On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 23:27:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 12:57:20 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 04:02:35 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 8:20:33 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.

It used to be much simpler. Buy a bike that you could stand over; set
the seat height and position; set the stem position; ride the bike and
make any more changes.

It still works for me :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes I remembered that time, where all frames had horizontal top tubes, only 2 saddles and handlebars to choose from and of course that awful quill stem. Most of the time people rode to large frames. That time passed thank god.

Lou


Really? And just how are modern bikes fitted better? Do your feet
reach the pedals better? Do your hands reach the handlebars better?


Never said that. Chosing a bike frame by just stand over height doesn't work anymore with sloping top tubes and handlebars that come in different shapes (drop and reach).

But tell us how far back your memories reach. Brooks, for example made
various models of bicycle seats in 1880
--


You are playing silly again.

Well, you said that, " I remembered that time, where all frames had
horizontal top tubes, only 2 saddles and handlebars to choose from".

I was amazed that you could be that old and asked you how far back
your memories went. Certainly if you could remember back when there
were only two bicycle seats to choose from it must have been Before
Brooks (for example) started selling more than one model of seat.

So who's being silly? You for exaggerations to bolster your arguments?
Or me for questioning your exaggerations?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #50  
Old December 9th 19, 09:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Bike adjustments

On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 23:15:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 09:17:13 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 17:31:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 07:30:37 +0700, John B.
wrote:

To be honest though, I'm not exactly sure what a "mobile" bike is? Are
there immobile bikes?

Yes, there is such a thing as an immovable bicycle:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=wrought+iron+bicycle
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+sculpture
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=inflatable+advertising+bicycle
etc...


Ah yes. But does one have to pay good money to be fitted to them :-)


No. However, you don't need to ride such a bicycle to be subject to
various charges. There are planning fees, construction permits,
environmental impact reports, aesthetic committee approval charges,
inspection fees, assorted licenses, and the usual bribes required to
deploy a non-moving bicycle. Think of these as converting your good
private sector money into their bad public sector money.


No! No! Public sector money is wonderful! Why they use it to build
those special paths for bicycles so they can be ridden in safety. Just
imagine, if only more money was spent and more bicycle paths were
built perhaps everyone would be riding a bike instead of playing games
on their hand phone :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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