The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

wrote:
[snip]

Dear Blair,

I hope that you never have to decide whether to have a wart removed.

True, warts are frequently removed by competent surgeons, but what if
something went wrong?

Carl Fogel

I'd end up like you?

--Blair
"Warts and all."

App wrote:
Snippage of Fogelisms

Dear Carl,

Where have you been? I would have thought you would have brought your
own special take on the idiocy expressed by our now-less-esteemed
co-cyclist Blair long before now.

Good to see you participating in the windmill tilting.

My worthless contribution:

Obviously, Blair, given your free-floating anxiety and your amazing
ability to generate false dangers, you don't ride much. Probably not
at all. So what does it matter what's in the back?

"you don't ride much, probably not at all"

Why do you argue when you can just make up things you know are
false.

Get a pair, you ninny.

I have a pair. The front is on the bike. The rear is leaning
against a cabinet in the garage, because it doesn't fit the bike.

--Blair
"They're bigger than yours."

StaceyJ wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

---snipping Blair's concerns---

Ok. Simple solution. Ditch the Neuvations. Look for a pair of NOS 7
speed freehubs (E-bay has tons). These will be 126mm spacing. Have a

Some will. Not many mention 126mm in the ads, and those
that do aren't NOS, they're recycled. And 36 spokes...

LBS build a set of wheels for you. Take your spiffy new 9 speed
casette, and ditch a cog. Place the now 8 speed casette onto the 7
speed freehub. Adjust the limit screws on your rear der. so that you
cannot make the '9th' shift (onto your largest cog). You now have an 8
of 9 on 7 setup (Sheldon describes this process at
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7 )

That's in the list of possibilities already.

It'd be nice to keep the Neuvation rim and spokes (they're
all aero) and find a compatible hub. But how many 24-spoke,
126-mm hubs are there?

--Blair
"Until something else breaks,
the status is quo."

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
41 wrote:

Well, my way of thinking is, classic bike, plenty of 13-2x freewheels
available NOS on eBay, less than 13 teeth no great use, you should be
able to use a classic setup with no problem and no practical
disadvantages. Your old hub is probably just fine, all you need is a
new rim and to lace it to the old hub. If you can get a rim with the
same ERD you can even reuse the spokes.

The hub isn't as fine as it could be. When the wheel
turns and the freewheel is held stationary (e.g., as
in coasting), you can see the freewheel orbit a little.
It's been that way as long as I can remember. The wheel
doesn't have an eccentricity, though, so the eccentricity
is between the axle and the freewheel.

This has nothing to do with the hub, it is the freewheel alone, and it
is perfectly normal. All freewheels do that and there is nothing wrong
with it. It does not reduce performance and you don't even have to
think about it.


I could get a replacement freewheel, but I think I need
a whole new rear wheel. Very few 126-mm setups out there.

No, there are plenty of them. They are available new as aftermarket
completely usable inexpensive wheels; or you can get Phil Wood hubs in
any spacing and with almost any drilling. Their standard drilling goes
down only to 28, but I do believe you can ask them to make a 24 for
you. With whatever axle spacing. Maybe Bullseye or other similar do the
same.

Additionally, when I was looking for 32 or 36H 120mm, I saw plenty of
what you want on eBay, Campagnolo Record, best Maillard, Sunshine,
Suntour, Normandy, others. They go for a reduced price because of the
unusual drilling and if you know how to look you will find. They are
not advertised that way in the titles usually, because it is not a
selling point and they want people to take a look first.

But your old hub is just fine. Just get a new rim and freewheel, reuse
the old spokes as per JB's book, and you will be golden.

41 wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
41 wrote:

Well, my way of thinking is, classic bike, plenty of 13-2x freewheels
available NOS on eBay, less than 13 teeth no great use, you should be
able to use a classic setup with no problem and no practical
disadvantages. Your old hub is probably just fine, all you need is a
new rim and to lace it to the old hub. If you can get a rim with the
same ERD you can even reuse the spokes.

The hub isn't as fine as it could be. When the wheel
turns and the freewheel is held stationary (e.g., as
in coasting), you can see the freewheel orbit a little.
It's been that way as long as I can remember. The wheel
doesn't have an eccentricity, though, so the eccentricity
is between the axle and the freewheel.

This has nothing to do with the hub, it is the freewheel alone, and it
is perfectly normal. All freewheels do that and there is nothing wrong
with it. It does not reduce performance and you don't even have to
think about it.

Why would all freewheels need to be eccentric?

I could get a replacement freewheel, but I think I need
a whole new rear wheel. Very few 126-mm setups out there.

No, there are plenty of them. They are available new as aftermarket
completely usable inexpensive wheels; or you can get Phil Wood hubs in
any spacing and with almost any drilling. Their standard drilling goes
down only to 28, but I do believe you can ask them to make a 24 for
you. With whatever axle spacing. Maybe Bullseye or other similar do the
same.

Thanks. I'll look them up.

Additionally, when I was looking for 32 or 36H 120mm, I saw plenty of
what you want on eBay, Campagnolo Record, best Maillard, Sunshine,
Suntour, Normandy, others. They go for a reduced price because of the
unusual drilling and if you know how to look you will find. They are
not advertised that way in the titles usually, because it is not a
selling point and they want people to take a look first.

What did you search on? I tried "126mm hub" and variants thereof.
Found one hub. Maillard. Looks to be 36-hole.

But your old hub is just fine. Just get a new rim and freewheel, reuse
the old spokes as per JB's book, and you will be golden.

Are you saying that JB recommends using the 27-inch-wheel
spokes with 700C rims?

--Blair
"The man thinks of everything.
Even things nobody should."

On 21 Aug 2005 05:00:55 -0700, "41" wrote:

Additionally, when I was looking for 32 or 36H 120mm, I saw plenty of
what you want on eBay, Campagnolo Record, best Maillard, Sunshine,
Suntour, Normandy, others. They go for a reduced price because of the
unusual drilling and if you know how to look you will find.

32/36 is considered an unusual drilling for rear hubs?


Jasper

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:31:49 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:

41 wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
41 wrote:

Well, my way of thinking is, classic bike, plenty of 13-2x freewheels
available NOS on eBay, less than 13 teeth no great use, you should be
able to use a classic setup with no problem and no practical
disadvantages. Your old hub is probably just fine, all you need is a
new rim and to lace it to the old hub. If you can get a rim with the
same ERD you can even reuse the spokes.

The hub isn't as fine as it could be. When the wheel
turns and the freewheel is held stationary (e.g., as
in coasting), you can see the freewheel orbit a little.
It's been that way as long as I can remember. The wheel
doesn't have an eccentricity, though, so the eccentricity
is between the axle and the freewheel.

This has nothing to do with the hub, it is the freewheel alone, and it
is perfectly normal. All freewheels do that and there is nothing wrong
with it. It does not reduce performance and you don't even have to
think about it.

Why would all freewheels need to be eccentric?

They don't "need" to be, they just are.

I could get a replacement freewheel, but I think I need
a whole new rear wheel. Very few 126-mm setups out there.

No, there are plenty of them. They are available new as aftermarket
completely usable inexpensive wheels; or you can get Phil Wood hubs in
any spacing and with almost any drilling. Their standard drilling goes
down only to 28, but I do believe you can ask them to make a 24 for
you. With whatever axle spacing. Maybe Bullseye or other similar do the
same.

Thanks. I'll look them up.

Additionally, when I was looking for 32 or 36H 120mm, I saw plenty of
what you want on eBay, Campagnolo Record, best Maillard, Sunshine,
Suntour, Normandy, others. They go for a reduced price because of the
unusual drilling and if you know how to look you will find. They are
not advertised that way in the titles usually, because it is not a
selling point and they want people to take a look first.

What did you search on? I tried "126mm hub" and variants thereof.
Found one hub. Maillard. Looks to be 36-hole.

Nobody much advertises that the wheel has a 126mm hub, but they sure do tell you
if it's a 7speed.

But your old hub is just fine. Just get a new rim and freewheel, reuse
the old spokes as per JB's book, and you will be golden.

Are you saying that JB recommends using the 27-inch-wheel
spokes with 700C rims?

--Blair
"The man thinks of everything.
Even things nobody should."

Yes, he does.
Ron

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

41 wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

The hub isn't as fine as it could be. When the wheel
turns and the freewheel is held stationary (e.g., as
in coasting), you can see the freewheel orbit a little.
It's been that way as long as I can remember. The wheel
doesn't have an eccentricity, though, so the eccentricity
is between the axle and the freewheel.

This has nothing to do with the hub, it is the freewheel alone, and it
is perfectly normal. All freewheels do that and there is nothing wrong
with it. It does not reduce performance and you don't even have to
think about it.

Why would all freewheels need to be eccentric?

They don't. However many of them are. The only concern is aesthetic as
a small eccentricity hurts nothing and is present only when coasting.

I could get a replacement freewheel, but I think I need
a whole new rear wheel. Very few 126-mm setups out there.

No, there are plenty of them. They are available new as aftermarket
completely usable inexpensive wheels; or you can get Phil Wood hubs in
any spacing and with almost any drilling. Their standard drilling goes
down only to 28, but I do believe you can ask them to make a 24 for
you. With whatever axle spacing. Maybe Bullseye or other similar do the
same.

Thanks. I'll look them up.

Additionally, when I was looking for 32 or 36H 120mm, I saw plenty of
what you want on eBay, Campagnolo Record, best Maillard, Sunshine,
Suntour, Normandy, others. They go for a reduced price because of the
unusual drilling and if you know how to look you will find. They are
not advertised that way in the titles usually, because it is not a
selling point and they want people to take a look first.

What did you search on? I tried "126mm hub" and variants thereof.
Found one hub. Maillard. Looks to be 36-hole.

I have some Maillard stuff around if you decide to go that way. I still
use the original front hub on my 25 year old Mariposa.

But your old hub is just fine. Just get a new rim and freewheel, reuse
the old spokes as per JB's book, and you will be golden.

Are you saying that JB recommends using the 27-inch-wheel
spokes with 700C rims?

Boy, I hope that was some sort of rhetorical question.

--Blair
"The man thinks of everything.
Even things nobody should."

--
Ted Bennett

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
The dropouts themselves are Campagnolo-made hardened lugs
that Holdsworth welded to the Reynolds tubing.

?? That's not making sense to me. For one thing, isn't it brazed
construction instead of welded? And regarding the lugs - do you have a
picture?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html

See about halfway down under "Horizontal Dropout Campagnolo
1010". Looks pretty much like mine; and from what I've
seen elsewhere about Holdsworths, the 1010 is one dropout
they used, if not the only one.

The "lug" portion would be everything below and left of
the stays. The triangle, the dropout, and the hangers.

That part is hardened, and was made by Campagnolo,
while the stays are not.

It could be brazed to the stays, but it's finished and
painted, so I can't see exactly what's been done where
they attach to the seatstay and chainstay.

Your terminology is wrong. The dropout is everything lefward and
downward of the frame tube. It comes in one piece. See
http://www.bikeschool.com/emporium/i...=4 3729444815
or http://tinyurl.com/7zgq7 for other examples.

Or see Sheldon's page again.

And you're wrong about the method of construction. The forged dropouts
are forged in one piece. They are brazed into the frame. There is
normally no welding involved. And they are not hardened.

- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 05:38:47 GMT Blair P. Houghton wrote:

See about halfway down under "Horizontal Dropout Campagnolo
1010". Looks pretty much like mine; and from what I've
seen elsewhere about Holdsworths, the 1010 is one dropout
they used, if not the only one.

The "lug" portion would be everything below and left of
the stays. The triangle, the dropout, and the hangers.

That part is hardened, and was made by Campagnolo,
while the stays are not.

If you care to stop by sometime, I have a supply of Campy 1010s,
1010As, and 1010Bs which I'll let you take a file to. None of them are
hardened. Not the verticals, either.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------