How long should caliper brake springs last?

On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

Hmmm. A "hot beverage" warning might have saved McDonalds a few hundred thousand. Anyway, I think what Frank is getting at is that brake springs don't wear out. It's like looking for instructions on the need for replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts. There are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the '60s with OE springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or poor lubrication. It's possible a spring went bad, but really unlikely.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

Hmmm. A "hot beverage" warning might have saved McDonalds a few hundred thousand. Anyway, I think what Frank is getting at is that brake springs don't wear out. It's like looking for instructions on the need for replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts. There are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the '60s with OE springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or poor lubrication. It's possible a spring went bad, but really unlikely.

It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has
repealed Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for metals.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

https://www.google.com/search?q=amaz...obile&ie=UTF-8

See Graingers

While here, check milspec prices

I need 2 abt 3-5/.5" fir a fog lamp bar to stop , device ...having a brick nerf on it.

Spring manus are liable ?

https://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=18t6dlx

On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is
ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted
them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

Hmmm. A "hot beverage" warning might have saved McDonalds a few
hundred thousand.


Yep, nowadays businesses have to assume widespread cases of aggravated
stupidity :-(


... Anyway, I think what Frank is getting at is that
brake springs don't wear out.


They can but one will feel when that happens and one does not need
instructions to feel it.


... It's like looking for instructions on
the need for replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience

A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the inspector found
it and they had to fix it before it could sell. They even had to pay for
a permit, probably because it was considered a structural repair.


... There
are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the '60s with OE
springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or poor lubrication.
It's possible a spring went bad, but really unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new. However, I
had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes, brake went mushy and then
.... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of the spring broke off. Not a
big deal and it's usually even possible to ride home.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has repealed
Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in California.
Nuts.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is
ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted
them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

Hmmm. A "hot beverage" warning might have saved McDonalds a few
hundred thousand.


Yep, nowadays businesses have to assume widespread cases of aggravated
stupidity :-(


... Anyway, I think what Frank is getting at is that
brake springs don't wear out.


They can but one will feel when that happens and one does not need
instructions to feel it.


... It's like looking for instructions on
the need for replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience

Well what? That's not a brake cable anchor bolt. Have you ever had a brake cable anchor bolt fail due to fatigue or age-related failure.


A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the inspector found
it and they had to fix it before it could sell. They even had to pay for
a permit, probably because it was considered a structural repair.


... There
are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the '60s with OE
springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or poor lubrication.
It's possible a spring went bad, but really unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new. However, I
had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes, brake went mushy and then
... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of the spring broke off. Not a
big deal and it's usually even possible to ride home.

Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail -- which is different from a spring getting soft.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has repealed
Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in California.
Nuts.

Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal law apply to individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are typically the province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide whether to legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the conservative mantra is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think a true conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2017-08-05 12:32, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


... It's like looking for instructions on the need for
replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience


Well what? That's not a brake cable anchor bolt. Have you ever had a
brake cable anchor bolt fail due to fatigue or age-related failure.


I didn't know you meant brake cable anchor bolt. I had one on a car fail
but not on a bicycle. Failures on bikes were usually snapped cables.


A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the inspector
found it and they had to fix it before it could sell. They even had
to pay for a permit, probably because it was considered a
structural repair.


... There are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the
'60s with OE springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or
poor lubrication. It's possible a spring went bad, but really
unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new.
However, I had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes, brake went
mushy and then ... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of the
spring broke off. Not a big deal and it's usually even possible to
ride home.

Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail -- which is
different from a spring getting soft.


Snapping off or getting soft, either way it will have to be replaced.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has
repealed Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in
California. Nuts.

Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal law apply to
individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are typically the
province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide whether to
legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the conservative mantra
is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think a true
conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.


Not me. I have seen the aftermath. I am conservative at heart but there
are things that the federal government has to take care of.
Environmental rules, military, and yes, health to a large extent.

If we wanted every law to be under state control driving across the
country would become a nightmare because you never know what applies
where. Then we might as well have 50 individual countries instead of
states and no US.

States have typically joined out of free will of the voters. That
requires that they accept federal law trumping their own law. Laws such
as that it is illegal to hop the country's border in the night and sneak
in. Now a lot of leftist Californian polticians are essentially saying
"Well, yeah, that was a long time ago. Now we see that differently and
we find that to be ok! To hell with federal law".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 8/5/2017 2:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is
ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted
them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

Hmmm. A "hot beverage" warning might have saved McDonalds a few
hundred thousand.


Yep, nowadays businesses have to assume widespread cases of aggravated
stupidity :-(


... Anyway, I think what Frank is getting at is that
brake springs don't wear out.


They can but one will feel when that happens and one does not need
instructions to feel it.


... It's like looking for instructions on
the need for replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience

Well what? That's not a brake cable anchor bolt. Have you ever had a brake cable anchor bolt fail due to fatigue or age-related failure.


A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the inspector found
it and they had to fix it before it could sell. They even had to pay for
a permit, probably because it was considered a structural repair.


... There
are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the '60s with OE
springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or poor lubrication.
It's possible a spring went bad, but really unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new. However, I
had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes, brake went mushy and then
... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of the spring broke off. Not a
big deal and it's usually even possible to ride home.

Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail -- which is different from a spring getting soft.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has repealed
Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in California.
Nuts.

Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal law apply to individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are typically the province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide whether to legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the conservative mantra is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think a true conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.


Good argument. +1 for subsidiarity.

Conservatives and libertines might suggest that the states
demur as well. But hey no regulation = no revenue stream so
who the hell will vote for that? Shaking down one industry
or another is the entire purpose.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/5/2017 3:02 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 12:32, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


... It's like looking for instructions on the need for
replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience



Well what? That's not a brake cable anchor bolt. Have you
ever had a
brake cable anchor bolt fail due to fatigue or age-related
failure.


I didn't know you meant brake cable anchor bolt. I had one
on a car fail but not on a bicycle. Failures on bikes were
usually snapped cables.


A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the
inspector
found it and they had to fix it before it could sell.
They even had
to pay for a permit, probably because it was considered a
structural repair.


... There are Campy NR record brakes still in service
from the
'60s with OE springs. SMS probably just has a missing
sleeve or
poor lubrication. It's possible a spring went bad, but
really
unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new.
However, I had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes,
brake went
mushy and then ... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of
the
spring broke off. Not a big deal and it's usually even
possible to
ride home.

Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail --
which is
different from a spring getting soft.


Snapping off or getting soft, either way it will have to be
replaced.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has
repealed Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for
metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in
California. Nuts.

Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal
law apply to
individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are
typically the
province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide
whether to
legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the
conservative mantra
is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think
a true
conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.


Not me. I have seen the aftermath. I am conservative at
heart but there are things that the federal government has
to take care of. Environmental rules, military, and yes,
health to a large extent.

If we wanted every law to be under state control driving
across the country would become a nightmare because you
never know what applies where. Then we might as well have 50
individual countries instead of states and no US.

States have typically joined out of free will of the voters.
That requires that they accept federal law trumping their
own law. Laws such as that it is illegal to hop the
country's border in the night and sneak in. Now a lot of
leftist Californian polticians are essentially saying "Well,
yeah, that was a long time ago. Now we see that differently
and we find that to be ok! To hell with federal law".


1. 100+ years of the total worldwide heroin ban. How's that
government regulation thing working out?

2. If you want taxpayers to buy a kiddie path where you ride
your bicycle, that's hardly conservative.

3. National health? YGBSM! The regulation is bad enough but
actual health care really? Check out the wonderful results
of BIA hospital system. Over a hundred years of rank
incompetence, fraud, theft, waste and error. Good luck
expanding that.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971