euro cycling

I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next year.
So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

Amenities

Hotel costs? Do you need reservations? Any favourites? Hidden gems?
Economical alternatives?

Organized Tours vs. independent routes?

I think I would prefer to be on my own for the freedom to strike out in
any direction that strikes my fancy but am willing to consider alternatives.

Best time of year for weather and to avoid busy times? Ideally I'm hoping
mid-June 2010.

I figure I would clock at least 100 km per day, most days with the odd rest
days. I am attracted to the idea of a tour through Normandy, do the
historical spots in a loop from Caen to Cherbourg and back.

Any thoughts or suggestions at all would be welcome.

On Jun 7, 7:39*am, "recycled" wrote:
*I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next year.
So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

*Any thoughts about equipment?

* * * Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

*Amenities

* * *Hotel costs? Do you need reservations? Any favourites? Hidden gems?
Economical alternatives?

Organized Tours vs. independent routes?

* *I think I would prefer to be on my own for the freedom to strike out in
any direction that strikes my fancy but am willing to consider alternatives.

*Best time of year for weather and to avoid busy times? Ideally I'm hoping
mid-June 2010.

*I figure I would clock at least 100 km per day, most days with the odd rest
days. I am attracted to the idea of a tour through Normandy, do the
historical spots in a loop from Caen to Cherbourg and back.

*Any thoughts or suggestions at all would be welcome.

I think buying a bike over there would be better- here's why- paying
extra to ship your bike over, the cost of renting the bike case, the
possibility of your bike (and the case ) getting lost or damaged, or
delayed. You should be able to get a reasonably good bike over there,
either used or new and possibly be able to make a buy-back deal with
the shop owner at the end of your trip.

On Jun 7, 7:39*am, "recycled" wrote:
*I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next year.
So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

*Any thoughts about equipment?

* * * Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

I have done this in years but I took my bike. That way it was set up
for me. However SNCF seemed to bend a fork for me and I had to
replace it in Boulougne.




*Amenities

* * *Hotel costs? Do you need reservations?

Depends on where you're going and the time of the year. Reputedly all
of France goes on holidays in August so reservations may be needed
then. I've traveled in France in late spring and in June without any
real problem in finding a place to stay.

If you think you do need reservattions the local tourist offices are
usually very helpful.

Any favourites? Hidden gems? Economical alternatives?

I've found les logis de France http://www.logisdefrance.com/ guide
very useful for finding reasonably priced places to stay.


Organized Tours vs. independent routes?

I've only done independent.
..

*I figure I would clock at least 100 km per day, most days with the odd rest
days. I

I'd suggest that 80 km/per day is more than enough if you want to see
things and not be totally exhausted.

"recycled" wrote in message
...

I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next
year. So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

Depends upon how long you're going to be staying there. It's going to
run $400 (more or less) in extra baggage fees to bring a bike to France
and back. So consider that against rental costs, or what you'd lose in
"depreciation" if you buy one there and have to quickly sell it when you
return. You'd think shops would set up a buy-back plan for maybe half
the cost of what they sell it to you for, but I have yet to see such a
thing. On a $1500 bike, that would mean selling it back to them for
$750. Well, as I think about it, that might not work out well for the,
since by the time they get it fixed back up to sell, at a lower price
than a new one, they may very well find it an unprofitable transaction.

Amenities

Hotel costs? Do you need reservations? Any favourites? Hidden
gems? Economical alternatives?

If you're not looking for a "French" hotel (and why you would is beyond
me; exploring what's outside is a whole lot more interesting than any
hotel I've been in) then consider the Etap hotels (part of the Accor
chain). They're cookie-cutter (each exactly the same room layout as the
next) but functional, clean, and cheap. Figure on $45-$50/night,
sometimes less, sometimes a bit more. You can reserve them on-line, and
they're located throughout France. For a bit less they have the Formula
chain, but they don't have attached bathrooms/showers (you have to walk
down the hall).

Organized Tours vs. independent routes?

First trip to France? An organized tour can help you get your feet wet,
but France is really a pretty easy place to get around, especially if
you have a good sense of humor and don't mind that you've provided
someone something to laugh at. Language isn't really that much of a
problem. It's all about "systems." Things work a certain way, following
certain patterns. Once you get the hang of that, it's pretty easy to
figure everything out. It's not something taught in school.

And by the way, if you've ever lost your bearings, just find a bus stop.
Bus stops invariably have maps and a "you are here" (vous ici) notation.
Saved my butt several times, especially trying to navigate around Paris
the first time.

I think I would prefer to be on my own for the freedom to strike out
in any direction that strikes my fancy but am willing to consider
alternatives.

How much time can you spend on this trip? Anything over a week on a
packaged tour is going to be pretty expensive! What some do for their
first trip is... both. Do a packaged tour the first week, then spend a
week (or longer) on your own.

Best time of year for weather and to avoid busy times? Ideally I'm
hoping mid-June 2010.

June can be fairly crowded and mid-June is high-season (more expensive).
The weather should be OK and not quite as hot as a month later. Ideal
would be September. Great weather, and outside of Paris, very few
tourists. Lower air fare, less-expensive hotels, less-crowded roads, and
kids are back in school.

I figure I would clock at least 100 km per day, most days with the odd
rest days. I am attracted to the idea of a tour through Normandy, do
the historical spots in a loop from Caen to Cherbourg and back.

I would pick points of interest and perhaps hotel locations before
deciding on how many km/day. Some days maybe you'd do more, some days
maybe very few.

Any thoughts or suggestions at all would be welcome.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"recycled" wrote in message
...

I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next
year. So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

Amenities

Hotel costs? Do you need reservations? Any favourites? Hidden
gems? Economical alternatives?

Organized Tours vs. independent routes?

I think I would prefer to be on my own for the freedom to strike out
in any direction that strikes my fancy but am willing to consider
alternatives.

Best time of year for weather and to avoid busy times? Ideally I'm
hoping mid-June 2010.

I figure I would clock at least 100 km per day, most days with the odd
rest days. I am attracted to the idea of a tour through Normandy, do
the historical spots in a loop from Caen to Cherbourg and back.

Any thoughts or suggestions at all would be welcome.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"recycled" wrote in message
...
I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next
year. So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

Depends upon how long you're going to be staying there. It's going to
run $400 (more or less) in extra baggage fees to bring a bike to France
and back. So consider that against rental costs, or what you'd lose in
"depreciation" if you buy one there and have to quickly sell it when you
return. You'd think shops would set up a buy-back plan for maybe half
the cost of what they sell it to you for, but I have yet to see such a
thing. On a $1500 bike, that would mean selling it back to them for
$750. Well, as I think about it, that might not work out well for the,
since by the time they get it fixed back up to sell, at a lower price
than a new one, they may very well find it an unprofitable transaction.
[...]

How much would it cost to ship the bike back to the US at the end of the
trip?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Jun 7, 7:39*am, "recycled" wrote:
*I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next year.
So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

*Any thoughts or suggestions at all would be welcome.

I was surprised by Mike's estimate of $400 shipping costs for your own
bike. We flew to Europe two years ago, and we could have chosen an
airline for which the international flight would carry the bike for
free. Maybe that's no longer true. But we avoided the issue by using
our folding Bikes Friday, which fit in standard suitcases and fly for
free anyway.

I've never done a guided tour of any type. We've always just bumbled
along on our own, having studied ahead of time and taken guidebooks
along. It's worked out fine.

One technique that's worked well for us was to read ahead, note sights
that we wanted to see, and mark them on a map, then examine the dots
to see which can be connected easily. Some dots, of course, have to
be skipped. If you have some particular interest (museums of French
bagpipes, for example?) you can scour the internet to find them and
include them in your own tour, one a tour company could never
duplicate.

I really like the travel philosophy and the books written by Rick
Steves, of "Europe Through the Back Door." It's all about traveling
like a local, finding places off the beaten path, and interacting with
locals. http://www.ricksteves.com/ The site's not bike specific, but
it's encyclopedic.

About interacting with locals: I'd recommend a resolution to talk to
everyone. IME, if you're an American passing through a small village,
someone there will be very interested in talking with you. If you're
part of a tour group, you'll probably meet mostly other Americans on
the tour. That's a lot like meeting Americans at home.

In general, we haven't worried much about reservations except for just
on jet-lagged arrival. Only for rare exceptions (Venice, for example)
did we book anything more than one day in advance. Most times, we'd
just roll into town and start asking at Tourist Information about Bed
& Breakfasts or family-run pension hotels. The only time we had
serious problems with that scheme, we ended up staying with friends we
just made, and that was even better.

Oh, and consider joining the Warm Showers list http://www.warmshowers.org/
and the Couchsurfing list http://www.couchsurfing.org/
You trade hospitality for hospitality and general travel help &
advice. You meet people, and you help out other travelers. Great way
to make friends and enjoy travel.

- Frank Krygowski

"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"recycled" wrote in message
...
I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next
year. So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?

Depends upon how long you're going to be staying there. It's going to
run $400 (more or less) in extra baggage fees to bring a bike to
France and back. So consider that against rental costs, or what you'd
lose in "depreciation" if you buy one there and have to quickly sell
it when you return. You'd think shops would set up a buy-back plan
for maybe half the cost of what they sell it to you for, but I have
yet to see such a thing. On a $1500 bike, that would mean selling it
back to them for $750. Well, as I think about it, that might not work
out well for the, since by the time they get it fixed back up to
sell, at a lower price than a new one, they may very well find it an
unprofitable transaction.
[...]

How much would it cost to ship the bike back to the US at the end of
the trip?

On United, $200. It varies between free (Virgin Atlantic being about the
only remaining member of that club) and up to, so I've heard, $300+.
Shipping it separately vis UPS, DHL or FedEx runs minimum $500. Can you
say OUCH?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

=========
"Frank Krygowski" wrote
I was surprised by Mike's estimate of $400 shipping costs for your own
bike. We flew to Europe two years ago, and we could have chosen an
airline for which the international flight would carry the bike for
free. Maybe that's no longer true. But we avoided the issue by using
our folding Bikes Friday, which fit in standard suitcases and fly for
free anyway.
=========

Tickets booked on UA prior to November 14, 2008, allowed *free* baggage
allowance for bicycles. Didn't matter if it was a paid or award ticket.
United was the last domestic member of the "free" club; since then
they've aggressively increased their domestic charges (from $85 to $185
each way) and International (from free to $200 each way). Virgin
Atlantic is apparently to sole remaining carrier offering free carriage
of bicycles.

Please note that your level of status on United (and most likely any
other airline) makes no difference. United charges the same $200 each
way for their "UGS" clientele, which represents folk who spend a ton of
money on non-discounted first & biz-class tickets.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 7:39 am, "recycled" wrote:
I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next
year.
So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts or suggestions at all would be welcome.

I was surprised by Mike's estimate of $400 shipping costs for your own
bike. We flew to Europe two years ago, and we could have chosen an
airline for which the international flight would carry the bike for
free. Maybe that's no longer true. But we avoided the issue by using
our folding Bikes Friday, which fit in standard suitcases and fly for
free anyway.

I've never done a guided tour of any type. We've always just bumbled
along on our own, having studied ahead of time and taken guidebooks
along. It's worked out fine.

One technique that's worked well for us was to read ahead, note sights
that we wanted to see, and mark them on a map, then examine the dots
to see which can be connected easily. Some dots, of course, have to
be skipped. If you have some particular interest (museums of French
bagpipes, for example?) you can scour the internet to find them and
include them in your own tour, one a tour company could never
duplicate.

I really like the travel philosophy and the books written by Rick
Steves, of "Europe Through the Back Door." It's all about traveling
like a local, finding places off the beaten path, and interacting with
locals. http://www.ricksteves.com/ The site's not bike specific, but
it's encyclopedic.

About interacting with locals: I'd recommend a resolution to talk to
everyone. IME, if you're an American passing through a small village,
someone there will be very interested in talking with you. If you're
part of a tour group, you'll probably meet mostly other Americans on
the tour. That's a lot like meeting Americans at home.

In general, we haven't worried much about reservations except for just
on jet-lagged arrival. Only for rare exceptions (Venice, for example)
did we book anything more than one day in advance. Most times, we'd
just roll into town and start asking at Tourist Information about Bed
& Breakfasts or family-run pension hotels. The only time we had
serious problems with that scheme, we ended up staying with friends we
just made, and that was even better.

Oh, and consider joining the Warm Showers list
http://www.warmshowers.org/
and the Couchsurfing list http://www.couchsurfing.org/
You trade hospitality for hospitality and general travel help &
advice. You meet people, and you help out other travelers. Great way
to make friends and enjoy travel.

- Frank Krygowski

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"recycled" wrote in message
...
I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday next
year. So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?
Depends upon how long you're going to be staying there. It's going to
run $400 (more or less) in extra baggage fees to bring a bike to
France and back. So consider that against rental costs, or what you'd
lose in "depreciation" if you buy one there and have to quickly sell
it when you return. You'd think shops would set up a buy-back plan
for maybe half the cost of what they sell it to you for, but I have
yet to see such a thing. On a $1500 bike, that would mean selling it
back to them for $750. Well, as I think about it, that might not work
out well for the, since by the time they get it fixed back up to
sell, at a lower price than a new one, they may very well find it an
unprofitable transaction.
[...]
How much would it cost to ship the bike back to the US at the end of
the trip?

On United, $200. It varies between free (Virgin Atlantic being about the
only remaining member of that club) and up to, so I've heard, $300+.
Shipping it separately vis UPS, DHL or FedEx runs minimum $500. Can you
say OUCH?

How much does the French postal service charge?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"Tom Sherman °_°" wrote in
message ...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"recycled" wrote in message
...
I'm considering a very nascent idea of a French cycling holiday
next year. So I'm throwing this out quite generally.

Any thoughts about equipment?

Bring your own bike or arrange 'over there'?
Depends upon how long you're going to be staying there. It's going
to run $400 (more or less) in extra baggage fees to bring a bike to
France and back. So consider that against rental costs, or what
you'd lose in "depreciation" if you buy one there and have to
quickly sell it when you return. You'd think shops would set up a
buy-back plan for maybe half the cost of what they sell it to you
for, but I have yet to see such a thing. On a $1500 bike, that
would mean selling it back to them for $750. Well, as I think about
it, that might not work out well for the, since by the time they
get it fixed back up to sell, at a lower price than a new one, they
may very well find it an unprofitable transaction.
[...]
How much would it cost to ship the bike back to the US at the end of
the trip?

On United, $200. It varies between free (Virgin Atlantic being about
the only remaining member of that club) and up to, so I've heard,
$300+. Shipping it separately vis UPS, DHL or FedEx runs minimum
$500. Can you say OUCH?

How much does the French postal service charge?

Don't know, but they might have established compatible size requirements
with US Postal. In the old days, you could ship a bike parcel post. No
longer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com