#1
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italy or denmark?
Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves, hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy seems to be the hills. I'm most interested in Tuscany and Umbria. Anyone who has experienced both countries (or either), weigh in. I am in average shape for a cycle-tourist - can do about 35-50 miles per day, with some hills. |
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#2
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italy or denmark?
In article . com,
"phil" wrote: Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves, hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy seems to be the hills. I'm most interested in Tuscany and Umbria. Anyone who has experienced both countries (or either), weigh in. I am in average shape for a cycle-tourist - can do about 35-50 miles per day, with some hills. There are, like always, tradeoffs. I'm speaking from secondhand knowledge here. Denmark is expensive. The roads are excellent and the terrain is fairly flat. Bicycling is common for errands and less common for sport or amusement. The people are very friendly and English is very commonly spoken, except by the elderly, as its a required subject in school. That's good because no one can pronounce Danish properly unless you grew up with those sounds, but the politenesses (hello, please, thank you, etc.) are easy to learn and much appreciated. Danes are very hospitable. The entire country tends to be very quaint and cozy, as coziness (hygge) is a cultural value. There are inns at specified intervals on every main road. The food is very good and all meals have a sense of formality- indeed there are cultural rules about the order of dishes. The national tipples are beer (lagers) and aquavit (a vodka type liquor flavored with spices like caraway and cardamom, drunk ice-cold). You'll find that it's hard to have a chat with a Dane without something to drink and eat being involved. http://www.trentobike.org/bycountry/Denmark.html Italy is less expensive. The climate is much warmer. The roads are variable and in Umbria and Tuscany tend to be hilly. Bicycling for sport is common and somewhat less so for errands. The people tend to be friendly and it's not as likely that you'll find English speakers- much like France in that regard. They really appreciate your attempts to speak some Italian. The evening meal in a restaurant is a production and can take a long time. The food is excellent and highly regional. The tipple is wine and coffee. My friends who have been to Italy- cycling and otherwise- came back raving about how much they enjoyed it. http://www.trentobike.org/bycountry_one/Italy.html This brings up one of my favorite Garrison Keillor stories. He married a Danish woman and lived in Denmark for a while (and as a result, he speaks Danish because- as it was explained to me- Danish law requires you to learn the language before you can take a job. You are considered disabled until you can speak the language and pass the official exam. Even though practically everyone speaks very good English). One day his car was broken into and his wallet was stolen. Form quite a while at parties and such, Danes would express their regrets that this happened to him. Garrison would thank them gravely and say, "well, we have crime in America too." I'd love to go to Italy to tour. My wife, who is of Danish extraction, wants to go to Denmark in part because she hates riding a bike uphill. I think I could probably deal. |
#3
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italy or denmark?
"phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves, hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy seems to be the hills. No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling. If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or Denmark or the flatter parts of France. |
#4
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italy or denmark?
On Jan 28, 8:45 am, sally wrote: "phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480 @p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves, hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy seems to be the hills.No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling. If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or Denmark or the flatter parts of France. Italy isn't just Tuscany and Umbria. Northern Italy's Veneto and Piedmont have flatlands, hills and mountains. In the Veneto flatlands are castle towns and Palladian villas to visit. In Piedmont's flatlands are also castle towns to visit, and the Langhe wine country region is a gourmet's paradise. Their hills have pretty hilltowns, as Tuscany and Umbria do. And the mountains provide spectacular scenery if you don't wish to ride up them, and satisfying challenges if you do. Some parts of Tuscany -- Florence, Siena, Chianti country (aka Chianti- SHIRE because so many Brits have settled there) and the better known hill towns (San Gimignano, Orvieto, etc.) -- can be overrun with English-speaking tourists. In Perugia, Umbria, so many English speakers come to study Italian that waiters automatically start in English when speaking to new clientele. |
#5
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italy or denmark?
Thanks - is there are particular ride you can recommend? We want to cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling. On Jan 28, 11:45 am, sally wrote: "phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480 @p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves, hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy seems to be the hills.No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling. If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or Denmark or the flatter parts of France. |
#6
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italy or denmark?
Thanks - is there a particular ride you an recommend in the Veneto/
Piedmont area? (book, self-guided tour, your own, etc.) On Jan 28, 12:45 pm, "dorkypants" wrote: On Jan 28, 8:45 am, sally wrote: "phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480 @p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves, hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy seems to be the hills.No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling. If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or Denmark or the flatter parts of France.Italy isn't just Tuscany and Umbria. Northern Italy's Veneto and Piedmont have flatlands, hills and mountains. In the Veneto flatlands are castle towns and Palladian villas to visit. In Piedmont's flatlands are also castle towns to visit, and the Langhe wine country region is a gourmet's paradise. Their hills have pretty hilltowns, as Tuscany and Umbria do. And the mountains provide spectacular scenery if you don't wish to ride up them, and satisfying challenges if you do. Some parts of Tuscany -- Florence, Siena, Chianti country (aka Chianti- SHIRE because so many Brits have settled there) and the better known hill towns (San Gimignano, Orvieto, etc.) -- can be overrun with English-speaking tourists. In Perugia, Umbria, so many English speakers come to study Italian that waiters automatically start in English when speaking to new clientele.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - |
#7
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italy or denmark?
"phil" wrote in
ups.com: Thanks - is there are particular ride you can recommend? We want to cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling. Get the book "Bicycle Touring in Tuscany" by David Cleveland |
#8
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italy or denmark?
On Jan 28, 8:45 pm, sally wrote: "phil" wrote roups.com: Thanks - is there are particular ride you can recommend? We want to cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling.Get the book "Bicycle Touring in Tuscany" by David Cleveland I don't know this book, or any such book in fact. However, once you have made up your mind you may like to get back for hints and tips. I have been riding my bikes for 'some' years in the neighborhood, through towns and countrysides as well. . Sergio Pisa |
#9
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italy or denmark?
phil wrote
We want to cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling. I've gotten lots of helpful ideas from this book: "Cycling Italy", by Ethan Gelber and others (Lonely Planet, 2003) I've also found lots of nice riding from using the Touring Club Italiano 1:200000 maps and inventing my own routes that included lots of roads highlighted in green. Recently I've also found some Michelin regional maps for Italy to offer a "second opinion". Of course when using that approach it helps to have some intelligent experience in guessing where the high traffic is going to be and not be, and stuff like that -- and to be prepared to change your plan when things on the ground are different than what you were guessing from the map. Italy is a big place. For all I know there might be more km of gentle roads around the eastern Po river valley of Italy than in all of Denmark. There are lots of canals around there too: "navigli" -- Wouldn't it be funny it Italy turned out to have more km of canals than the Netherlands? Ken |
#10
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italy or denmark?
On 29 Gen, 20:32, "Ken Roberts"
wrote: For all I know there might be more km of gentle roads around the eastern Po river valley of Italy than in all of Denmark. There are lots of canals around there too: "navigli" -- Wouldn't it be funny it Italy turned out to have more km of canals than the Netherlands? A due word of caution, here. The Piste Ciclabili are usually poor in signs and not at all well connected one to the next one. I happened to temporarily get lost just outside of Milano and I have seen stranded bike riders looking for the trail on the outskirts of Lana d'Adige. On another occasion, a friend of mine preferred to deliver me past Cremona, judging that the trail along the Po river bank, upstream from there, might turrn out to be just a mirage for me. Sergio Pisa |
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