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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 25th 09, 05:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 25, 4:34*am, RonSonic wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:

(p.s to Carl: tape, double bumpers, saddle angle etc were
explicitly specified in great detail.)


Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get
to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ


I'd think that being so sophisticated that you deem one of the finer makes a
joke


Let's refine that for you. The Godiva is misnamed (not a mixte) and is
dull, and the entire Waterford price list is a joke. Nothing can
justify charging several multiples of the prices of fine bicycle
makers like Mercian or Bob Jackson. Even if Waterford could brag the
same pedigree, which it can't, ever, the Waterford price list would
still be obscene.

But you know, Ronni, this thread wouldn't have happened if Seaton
didn't decide to slap me in the face with the Godiva. Weren't you the
one telling us yesterday that Seaton would get away with it? Did you
really expect me to let it go? I expect a quicker uptake from someone
who's had the privilege of associating with me for fifteen years.

you might have the ability to look at a ****ing picture and pick out the
items of which there are two that aren't mentioned in Sheldon's glossary. Hint,
they are prominent in the photo's and most bikes don't have them.


Oh, I arrived at those two components as the only unidentified ones on
the bike, and decided they must be folding couplings. I don't see that
there is any shame in not knowing something and asking. Getting angry
about someone else not knowing is the sign of someone with a very
limited band of knowledge. I prefer not to clutter my mind but instead
to know the people who know.

First magnafluxing in a thread about aluminum seatposts and then this.


Magnafluxing right next to a quote about treated surfaces, dear Ronni.
Perfectly relevant. At least as relevant as you taking your foul
temper out in any thread I'm in.

Seems you have that getting to the pub problem solved.


I haven't seen the inside of a pub in several years. I drink wine with
my meals and consider pub-type smalltalk a waste of my time.

For those who want to know what I said about Waterford that upset dear
Ronni so, here it is:

****
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies
by Andre Jute
Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman
and
other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,
suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655
I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,
eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with
historic
roots.
Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been
hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as
the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy
roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The
pricelist, here,
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655
reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the
cheapest
lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up,
getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box
"pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent
Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for
Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825.
No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down,
and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with
a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the
single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro.
Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a
machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can
buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and
a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price
of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle
maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate.
So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and
fork with pinstriping.
GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD --
FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE!
Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel
frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts,
and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the
delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous
bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050
cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or
garden frame, that is for a very special frame.
Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the
German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to
Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920)
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp
or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts)
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5....
and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and
fork
with a distinguished road pedigree.
WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD,
GO UPMARKET
Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead
at
over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob
Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to
the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can
match
the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars,
essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the
price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of
everything.
A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely
equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson,
fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest.
You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more
sane. Waterford is a joke.
IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE?
There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no
breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames
appear to be bog-standard and dull.
The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone
crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling
the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my
Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html
is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass
American stupidity.)
A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head
tube
to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The
Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The
Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty
commonplace really.
What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of
advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte
profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte
but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the
cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte.
Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or
should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were
intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell.
Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit
netsites. For any other use approach the author.

Ads
  #22  
Old April 25th 09, 05:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 25, 4:35*am, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:05 am, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory
except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly
that's an ignorant jobstian bull**** excuse. if the mechanicals are
good and the microstructure good, that's all that matters to your
ability to ride the damned thing.


How it it "ignorant" to demand aesthetic satisfaction from the
artifacts one owns. Stop blustering, Jimbo; it makes you sound like a
troll. A Ford gets you there. A Bentley gets you there with a smile on
your face.


it's attributing more value to the aesthetics than the tech, that's why.
* tech news group, remember?


What, you can only post here if you use exclusive ugly gear? Wakey,
wakey, Jumbo, half or more the bikes in America are sold for people to
look cool on, not for an functional or technical superiority.

Original text, in case you want to know, dealt with value for money
and pedigree in steel bikes:


snip more steel blathering

andre, examine the facts associated with the following:

corrosion
price
stiffness
weight


Yes, but since my steel bike is vastly overspecified for any demand I
will ever place on it in service, the parameters are quite irrelevant.
My technical interest is in the gearboxes and the tyres, and it is
notable that my steel bike is lighter than two ali bikes I have with
roughly the same spec (hub gearboxes, hub dynamoes, full touring/city
gear). I find both ali and steel frames satisfactory, but steel more
so for inexpressible reasons as well as those inherent in the design
differences between the bikes.

now quitcher bitchin.


Eh, you're changing side are you? You now reckon that complaining
about excessive Waterford pricing is "bitching". Make up your mind,
Jumbo. (Nah,, don't bother. I'm just trolling you. I know you wouldn't
waste Waterford money on a mere bike, even a carbon one.)

Andre Jute
Carpals of iron. IRON! I tell you. -- Ron Bales on Andre Jute
  #23  
Old April 25th 09, 05:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 25, 4:42*am, RonSonic wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:23:52 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:05*am, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory
except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly


that's an ignorant jobstian bull**** excuse. *if the mechanicals are
good and the microstructure good, that's all that matters to your
ability to ride the damned thing.


How it it "ignorant" to demand aesthetic satisfaction from the
artifacts one owns. Stop blustering, Jimbo; it makes you sound like a
troll. A Ford gets you there. A Bentley gets you there with a smile on
your face.


Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which
must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-
Pelayo Ricart Medina


yeah, and the brains of non-engineers need boiling in brine and vinegar
sometimes.


Especially the zero-aesthetic barbarians.


Andre Jute
The Real Thing -- slogan I coined for wool, later used for a fizzy
drink


Original text, in case you want to know, dealt with value for money
and pedigree in steel bikes:


Criticising Waterford as lacking "pedigree" is probably not a real strong
argument.


Nobody accused Waterford of having zero pedigree, Ronni. The problem
is that Waterford just doesn't have the pedigree of say Bob Jackson or
Mercian, but Waterford charges three to five times as much as they do
-- not three to five per cent more, three to five whole multiples.
Holy Moses, i've heard of the last of the big spenders, but Waterford
is the last of the big chargers.

And it isn't just a difference in depth of pedigree that makes
Waterford look so greedy. At Bob Jackson (and possibly at Mercian too,
I can't remember now and there are plenty on RBT to look it up) you
get a bike without local frame-stresses because it is brazed in an
open hearth for even heating, so there are technical superiorities
too. And the historic connections, for instance Bob Jackson is the
only place where you can get authorized Hetchins wavy chainstays.

I have no connection with Bob Jackson or Mercian, who are both long-
established traditional British bike makers; I normally order my bikes
in the Benelux or Germany.

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask.
  #24  
Old April 25th 09, 05:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,336
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 24, 7:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
[drivelsnip]


No, a Waterford is a work of art made by craftsmen. They are very
pretty and that's why, if you have a couple grand burning a hole in
your pocket, and love bicycles, you should buy one. If indeed it's the
bike your heart desires. They do seem a few hundred bux overpriced to
me--but whadda I know? That might be due to fancy dropouts or laquer
or something I'm missing. People spend more on Harley farts.

While I like pretty--and there are a few really lovely Waterfords
plowing the streets here--these days decent frames are a mass
commodity and really the least important part of a bike equation so
long as they're the right size. Again--I see high end bikes for
schlepps as being rolling art, that I appreciate, but not really an
important component to the actual riding experience.

My best neighbor friend, whose pooch is best buddies with mine, has a
Serrota with a carbon rear end. The welds are quite nice, but not
sanded or anything. I doubt that bike is any more reliable than my
steel Redline, whose tigged joints are 80% as nice (except in a couple
nasty hidden places) and which has no glued interfaces. My Redline
fits me like a glove. Her Serotta probably saves her a pound and a
half, has a slightly nicer finish, and costs $1500 more.

Standard frames just are sorta boring these days. It's been a hundred
years and we now have robots building bang on straight frames for
peanuts.

The actual build is much more interesting to me. The wheels and
dialing are far more important than the frame--Taiwan's got us covered
on that. Handlebars are more interesting than frames. 72.5..top tube..
72.5. Zzzzzzz.

It's a good time to be a cyclist. When you can buy a boring strong and
reliable Asian frame for a couple hundred bux, then support your local
economy by having wheels built by your LBS. Or even have them assemble
the whole enchilada.

Want coach lines? Put them on an El Camino where they belong.



  #25  
Old April 25th 09, 05:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 25, 4:46*am, AMuzi wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get
to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ


Urethane layered with a tempered steel center. Keep the
handlebar and caliper from denting frame tubes.


Right. Here in Urp we have a thingy made by Hebie which bolts onto the
bottom tube and reaches forward via spring loading to the fork and
stops it turning that far. Inelegant, klunky, too much weight (you can
tell I don't have one!). Idworx has a more elegant, simple and low-
mass solution of a stop on the headset that prevents the handlebars
turning more than 90 degrees to either side.

Andre Jute
"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which
must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-
Pelayo Ricart Medina


--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #26  
Old April 25th 09, 05:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
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Posts: 6,336
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 24, 9:57*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

[carlsnip, with respect]
[drivelsnip]
We say "open frame" rather than "girl bike".


In Sverige, we say "damcykel", or "ladie's bicycle"--but no one gives
a **** if you're a guy on one. Just like the Dutch men on their creaky
old omafiets. Whaddever. It's only in the states that people get their
Tampax Slim impacted over it. I rode my restored girlie Raleigh Sprite
here for a couple years till I tired of the giggles. (That and the
fact that that **** of a bike would shimmy really good at 25mph,
especially with a load on the Pletscher--another case for being
against the nostalgia of old frames)
  #27  
Old April 25th 09, 05:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Apr 25, 5:37*am, landotter wrote:
On Apr 24, 7:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
[drivelsnip]


Ott cut my original so that he could go off into fairyland without
inconvenient facts. Like this one:

Waterford ... do seem a few hundred bux overpriced to
me--but whadda I know?


You shoulda read the post you snipped, Ott. A base Waterford frame is
twenty-two hundreds, $2200 pricier than a top pedigree British bike.
That's not "a few" hundred as you try to pretend. The evidence you cut
is repeated below for your information.

That might be due to fancy dropouts or laquer


Nope.

or something I'm missing


Greed?

Here's first the "drivelsnip" of hard facts restored:

WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies
by Andre Jute
Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman
and
other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,
suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655
I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,
eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with
historic
roots.
Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been
hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as
the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy
roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The
pricelist, here,
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655
reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the
cheapest
lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up,
getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box
"pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent
Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for
Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825.
No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down,
and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with
a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the
single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro.
Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a
machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can
buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and
a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price
of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle
maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate.
So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and
fork with pinstriping.
GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD --
FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE!
Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel
frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts,
and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the
delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous
bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050
cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or
garden frame, that is for a very special frame.
Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the
German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to
Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920)
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp
or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts)
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5....
and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and
fork
with a distinguished road pedigree.
WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD,
GO UPMARKET
Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead
at
over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob
Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to
the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can
match
the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars,
essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the
price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of
everything.
A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely
equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson,
fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest.
You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more
sane. Waterford is a joke.
IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE?
There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no
breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames
appear to be bog-standard and dull.
The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone
crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling
the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my
Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html
is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass
American stupidity.)
A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head
tube
to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The
Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The
Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty
commonplace really.
What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of
advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte
profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte
but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the
cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte.
Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or
should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were
intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell.
Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit
netsites. For any other use approach the author.

*********
And here's Ott skipping through fairyland:
No, a Waterford is a work of art made by craftsmen. They are very
pretty and that's why, if you have a couple grand burning a hole in
your pocket, and love bicycles, you should buy one. If indeed it's the
bike your heart desires. They do seem a few hundred bux overpriced to
me--but whadda I know? That might be due to fancy dropouts or laquer
or something I'm *missing. People spend more on Harley farts.

While I like pretty--and there are a few really lovely Waterfords
plowing the streets here--these days decent frames are a mass
commodity and really the least important part of a bike equation so
long as they're the right size. Again--I see high end bikes for
schlepps as being rolling art, that I appreciate, but not really an
important component to the actual riding experience.

My best neighbor friend, whose pooch is best buddies with mine, has a
Serrota with a carbon rear end. The welds are quite nice, but not
sanded or anything. I doubt that bike is any more reliable than my
steel Redline, whose tigged joints are 80% as nice (except in a couple
nasty hidden places) and which has no glued interfaces. My Redline
fits me like a glove. Her Serotta probably saves her a pound and a
half, has a slightly nicer finish, and costs $1500 more.

Standard frames just are sorta boring these days. It's been a hundred
years and we now have robots building bang on straight frames for
peanuts.

The actual build is much more interesting to me. The wheels and
dialing are far more important than the frame--Taiwan's got us covered
on that. Handlebars are more interesting than frames. 72.5..top tube..
72.5. Zzzzzzz.

It's a good time to be a cyclist. When you can buy a boring strong and
reliable Asian frame for a couple hundred bux, then support your local
economy by having wheels built by your LBS. Or even have them assemble
the whole enchilada.

Want coach lines? Put them on an El Camino where they belong.


  #28  
Old April 25th 09, 07:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
RonSonic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,658
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:02:03 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:

On Apr 25, 4:34*am, RonSonic wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:

(p.s to Carl: tape, double bumpers, saddle angle etc were
explicitly specified in great detail.)


Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get
to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ


I'd think that being so sophisticated that you deem one of the finer makes a
joke


Let's refine that for you. The Godiva is misnamed (not a mixte) and is
dull, and the entire Waterford price list is a joke. Nothing can
justify charging several multiples of the prices of fine bicycle
makers like Mercian or Bob Jackson. Even if Waterford could brag the
same pedigree, which it can't, ever, the Waterford price list would
still be obscene.

But you know, Ronni, this thread wouldn't have happened if Seaton
didn't decide to slap me in the face with the Godiva. Weren't you the
one telling us yesterday that Seaton would get away with it? Did you
really expect me to let it go?


Some guy on the interwebs mocks your bike and you try to shut him up by writing
a tantrum about some company that has nothing whatever to do with any of this.
Please, explain how that works. Or will you just get revenge by typing something
mean about Verizon?

First magnafluxing in a thread about aluminum seatposts and then this.


Magnafluxing right next to a quote about treated surfaces, dear Ronni.
Perfectly relevant. At least as relevant as you taking your foul
temper out in any thread I'm in.


No, Andre. Magnafluxing has nothing whatever to do with anodized aluminum
seatposts. Spin it how you will.

Seems you have that getting to the pub problem solved.


I haven't seen the inside of a pub in several years. I drink wine with
my meals and consider pub-type smalltalk a waste of my time.


It would do you far more good than what you're doing here.


  #29  
Old April 25th 09, 08:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
RonSonic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,658
Default WHY AN ANDRE JUTE POST IS THE PARADIGM

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:37:11 -0700, jim beam
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:06?am, Dan O wrote:

I wouldn't mind trying an aluminum frame, and when hunting around e.g.
Craigslist I do keep an eye open for Cannondale


Gotta be a Cannondale. Smooth welding and beautiful lines. Last year I
had a Cannondale Trekking Rohloff (probably a European-only model) on
order but the factory sold out just as my order went in. Wonderfully
satisfying custom-designed dropouts. -- AJ


who givesa****? cut that sucker up and put it under the microscope -
i'll tell you what's beautiful.


Better yet, throw a leg over it and ride. You'll probably prefer the Klein that
was mentioned next before this all got cut up for comment. Oh, and Andre would
prefer the far prettier joint work and welding. Klein kept doing goofy
non-industry-standard stuff that probably didn't help their marketing but they
had some great ideas and designs and could build an aluminum bike that rode as
nicely as any.



and Klein and the
like; but since I started out acquiring older, used (more affordable)
bicycles, I have a bunch of gear now for 126 mm rear dropout spacing,
and most of the quality frames available for this gear just happens to
be made of steel.

typically, aluminum is:
cheaper
stiffer - and thus more sable for non-freds
lighter
more corrosion resistant.
is there some kind of myopia/ignorance-of-the-facts virus i've been
missing out on?
methinks you must be immune, anyway ;-)


  #30  
Old April 25th 09, 09:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

AMuzi wrote:

Godiva? Way too complex.
Nice clean Waterford open track frame:http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html

Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a
seductively pretty format with polished stainless lugwork.

YMMV.


That's a nice bike. As in "look what I nice bike I found at the swap
meet."

For three grand, a bike frame had better be *special*. Like, "nobody
in the world ever saw a bike like that" special, in a good way. Being
technically unique but fundamentally ordinary, with tasty paint and
lugs, won't do it.

And anybody who wants me take a bike with tubies must pay me to do
it. Sewups rank below their classmates, block chain and 13/16"
seatposts, on my wish list.

Chalo
 




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