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drill/tap in frames



 
 
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  #91  
Old July 12th 18, 07:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 168
Default drill/tap in frames

On 12/07/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2018 11:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/12/2018 3:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/11/2018 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:24:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


Exactly. Strong enough is strong enough.

OK, so let's pretend that the tube with the Rivnut bent
at 10% less
tension.テつ* Is that "strong enough"?テつ* There's no way to
tell without the
original design calculations, or reverse engineering the
frame with an
FEA model.テつ* Too bad Autodesk killed their online
ForceEffect web app.
http://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2017/01/17/autodesk-forceeffect-family-retirement/


I think I could have modeled the problem using the program.

It's a bad experiment because it doesn't take into account
whether or not the hole was properly drilled and the
Rivnut properly installed. You also have to do it with the
same aluminum tubing used on a bicycle frame, but even
then it isn't accurate because there's no way to factor in
metal fatigue which isn't an issue as much in steel as it
is in aluminum.

Remember, just because you can often get away with doing a
really stupid thing, it doesn't mean that you should still
do it.


Remember, just because one person declares a practice to be
stupid, it doesn't mean the practice really is stupid.

In fact, if the practice (like the use of Rivnuts) is
generally very successful, the stupidity probably lies
elsewhere.


Goes both ways.ツ* Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while
visionaries look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg


Or maybe some people only look right, even when it's the wrong direction...

Ads
  #92  
Old July 12th 18, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,556
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/12/2018 1:46 PM, Duane wrote:
On 12/07/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2018 11:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/12/2018 3:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/11/2018 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:24:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


Exactly. Strong enough is strong enough.

OK, so let's pretend that the tube with the Rivnut bent
at 10% less
tension.テつ Is that "strong enough"?テつ There's no
way to
tell without the
original design calculations, or reverse engineering the
frame with an
FEA model.テつ Too bad Autodesk killed their online
ForceEffect web app.
http://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2017/01/17/autodesk-forceeffect-family-retirement/


I think I could have modeled the problem using the
program.

It's a bad experiment because it doesn't take into account
whether or not the hole was properly drilled and the
Rivnut properly installed. You also have to do it with the
same aluminum tubing used on a bicycle frame, but even
then it isn't accurate because there's no way to factor in
metal fatigue which isn't an issue as much in steel as it
is in aluminum.

Remember, just because you can often get away with doing a
really stupid thing, it doesn't mean that you should still
do it.

Remember, just because one person declares a practice to be
stupid, it doesn't mean the practice really is stupid.

In fact, if the practice (like the use of Rivnuts) is
generally very successful, the stupidity probably lies
elsewhere.


Goes both ways.ツ Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left
while visionaries look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg



Or maybe some people only look right, even when it's the
wrong direction...


Yes as I noted, goes both ways.
As Chou En Lai said of the effects of the French Revolution,
it's too soon to say.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #93  
Old July 12th 18, 09:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,217
Default drill/tap in frames

On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 1:06:52 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2018 1:46 PM, Duane wrote:
On 12/07/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2018 11:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/12/2018 3:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/11/2018 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:24:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


Exactly. Strong enough is strong enough.

OK, so let's pretend that the tube with the Rivnut bent
at 10% less
tension.テ窶堙 Is that "strong enough"?テ窶堙 There's no
way to
tell without the
original design calculations, or reverse engineering the
frame with an
FEA model.テ窶堙 Too bad Autodesk killed their online
ForceEffect web app.
http://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2017/01/17/autodesk-forceeffect-family-retirement/


I think I could have modeled the problem using the
program.

It's a bad experiment because it doesn't take into account
whether or not the hole was properly drilled and the
Rivnut properly installed. You also have to do it with the
same aluminum tubing used on a bicycle frame, but even
then it isn't accurate because there's no way to factor in
metal fatigue which isn't an issue as much in steel as it
is in aluminum.

Remember, just because you can often get away with doing a
really stupid thing, it doesn't mean that you should still
do it.

Remember, just because one person declares a practice to be
stupid, it doesn't mean the practice really is stupid.

In fact, if the practice (like the use of Rivnuts) is
generally very successful, the stupidity probably lies
elsewhere.


Goes both ways.テ Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left
while visionaries look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...0nato%204..jpg



Or maybe some people only look right, even when it's the
wrong direction...


Yes as I noted, goes both ways.
As Chou En Lai said of the effects of the French Revolution,
it's too soon to say.


Crowd logic makes little difference when it comes to calculating material strength -- it's not like Trek puts its frames in a crowd and asks for opinions on the number of fatigue cycles it will withstand. It tends to use test fixtures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT4yS5wTkY0 A qualified engineer could opine on whether rivnuts are good or bad for a particular application. It's not like the prophet SMS versus the blind rivnut believers!

And the effects of the French Revolution were pretty easy to evaluate for Louis XVI. No mystery there, and living in a Blue State, the effect of Trump policy choices are immediately apparent, e.g. capped deduction for state taxes, pardoning dopes who burn public land, etc., etc. I don't need to wait 200 years to figure this one out. I'm being punished because my state voted "wrong."

-- Jay Beattie.

  #94  
Old July 12th 18, 10:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,044
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while
visionaries look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg


Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by
during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating
hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right,
left, right...

Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left.

"Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our
little Donnie!"


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #95  
Old July 12th 18, 10:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,044
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/12/2018 1:21 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Then you should definitely not just drill and
tap the frame tube itself.


Why not?


I give. Can someone else take over?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #96  
Old July 12th 18, 10:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,740
Default drill/tap in frames

On 13/07/18 03:21, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Then you should definitely not just drill and
tap the frame tube itself.


Why not?


The material is too thin.

--
JS
  #97  
Old July 12th 18, 11:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 906
Default drill/tap in frames

James wrote:

Then you should definitely not just drill
and tap the frame tube itself.


Why not?


The material is too thin.


Is it more thick at the bottom of the bottom
bracket shell and at the bottom-mid section of
the down tube where I have seen this numerous
times, and also the chainguard stays to the
chainguard intersection?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #98  
Old July 12th 18, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,556
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/12/2018 4:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries
look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg


Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band
to pass by during the town parade. Soon they saw all the
children concentrating hard, blaring on their clarinets and
trumpets, and marching left, right, left, right...

Except for their own little boy, who was marching right,
left, right, left.

"Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step
except our little Donnie!"



And little Galileo Galilei grew up in his own special way.

Being not of the crowd goes both ways. It's not an argument
for Tesla nor for Lysenko.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #99  
Old July 12th 18, 11:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default drill/tap in frames

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 17:20:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while
visionaries look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg


Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by
during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating
hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right,
left, right...

Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left.

"Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our
little Donnie!"


One always wonders whether there will be a secondary effect of some of
these actions.

The U.S. is the largest exporter of arms in the world with $10 billion
of exports last year. How much of the $10 B is procured by Nato?

One might also not want to ignore the fact that NATO IS a neuclar
power with 200 odd neuclar bombs stored in various places in Europe.

--

Cheers,

John B.
  #100  
Old July 13th 18, 02:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,556
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/12/2018 5:43 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 17:20:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while
visionaries look Right:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg


Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by
during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating
hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right,
left, right...

Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left.

"Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our
little Donnie!"


One always wonders whether there will be a secondary effect of some of
these actions.

The U.S. is the largest exporter of arms in the world with $10 billion
of exports last year. How much of the $10 B is procured by Nato?

One might also not want to ignore the fact that NATO IS a neuclar
power with 200 odd neuclar bombs stored in various places in Europe.



One might argue that we make good hardware, software,
armament and kit. One might also argue that arms sales are
more political than economic so quality, price or
performance may not even be factors when compared to
arm-bending 'deals one cannot refuse' as it were.

How political can arms sales possibly be?

https://sputniknews.com/us/201807081...ell-old-tanks/

Being Canadian, they wouldn't want their surplus tanks used
to hurt people or anything like that:

the list of potential buyers was rather short due to
Canada's policy not to sell weapons to "problematic countries."

https://globalnews.ca/news/4318852/c...orces-fizzles/

At least in the two wheeler world I really don't care about
your personal morals once your charge card runs and your
bike leaves my premises.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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