IQ-X vs Edelux II

On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 11:07:46 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/8/2019 9:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 2:53:31 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 8/5/19 12:45 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2019 6:58 PM, James wrote:
On 8/5/19 1:55 am, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:
On 6/5/19 5:20 pm, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even
have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The
Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard
driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the
perceived
standard traffic position.


Along one major road there is a shoulder for quite a distance, and
though I ride just within the lane, I often move into the shoulder as
motor vehicles are driven past.

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570

Not really like that guy.Â* I guess everyone rides a little
differently. I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least
ride there at a time of day when there was less motor traffic.

I rarely complain about close calls.Â* On the road I mentioned above
with no shoulder, that is similar to the one in the video, I recall
hearing a horn behind me, so I looked and the driver towing wide
trailer was driving at me at 100km/h while there was oncoming cars.
The oncoming cars had just appeared around a bend, so it would have
been futile to move out to block the driver behind me.Â* Instead I
avoided a collision by riding just beyond the fog line in the gravel.
Yes I bailed.Â* I didn't end up in a ditch or with a puncture, and I'm
still here today typing a reply.Â* YMMV.

I don't think Frank would even advocate moving out in front of a
vehicle being driven at 100km/h that obviously did not enough time or
distance to slow safely to 30km/h (my speed).

Should I have been lane centre?Â* Well, moments earlier there was no
reason to be.Â* Timing is everything.

Well, one of the things I was taught in the last cycling class I took
was the value of being out in the lane very early. John fusses over the
supposed impossibility of moving left. But these days I tend to agree a
lot more with John Franklin, and treat lane center as the normal place
to be.

The value is, in part, that motorists half a mile back can see you're
something they'll have to deal with. They slow much sooner when
necessary, they change lanes much sooner to pass. On four-lane roads,
they begin looking for opportunities to merge left a lot sooner, and
start negotiating with other motorists sooner in order to do that move.

And incidentally, this is something that has changed since my first
cycling class (in about 1980, IIRC). At that time, people were saying
the right tire track was far enough left. Decades of discussion, tests,
debate and analysis have taught people that further left is a better
default position.

To John and Jay, that's a bit of evidence that this material is not just
the product of one man's imagination.



I've tried riding closer to the middle of the lane. In some parts of
that particular road it is essential because the road surface is a mine
field if potholes in the left wheel track (right for you). But on the
whole it seems to elicit more aggro. Drivers don't understand why
you're "taking up the whole road" and not hugging the left edge. You
then tend to get very close high speed passes, with clear intent to
scare the **** out of you, along with abuse and verbal threats.


My experience as well.

I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.

The middle of the lane as the "normal" or usual place for a bicycle violates the law in most US states. I don't know of any exceptions off the top of my head -- maybe Ohio. It is usually an exception, i.e. you can take the lane when going the speed of traffic or when it is not safe to be as far right as is practicable or setting up for a left, etc. When you take the lane, you trigger slow moving vehicle or impeding laws.

Those laws have no legitimate purpose when the roadway lacks traffic.
Why should I have to keep right if nobody's coming and the center of the
lane is smoother?

And there are other times that exceptions should apply, as they do in Ohio.

If there is no traffic, there is no impeding. You could play stick ball on the highway out in eastern Oregon and nobody would care. https://c8.alamy.com/comp/X7XG6K/usa...oad-X7XG6K.jpg

Moreover, AFRAP only applies when "[a] person is operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic." No traffic, no violation.. Go pop wheelies in the middle of the empty road.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 4:01:53 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 11:07:46 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/8/2019 9:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:

The middle of the lane as the "normal" or usual place for a bicycle violates the law in most US states. I don't know of any exceptions off the top of my head -- maybe Ohio. It is usually an exception, i.e. you can take the lane when going the speed of traffic or when it is not safe to be as far right as is practicable or setting up for a left, etc. When you take the lane, you trigger slow moving vehicle or impeding laws.

Those laws have no legitimate purpose when the roadway lacks traffic.
Why should I have to keep right if nobody's coming and the center of the
lane is smoother?

And there are other times that exceptions should apply, as they do in Ohio.

If there is no traffic, there is no impeding. You could play stick ball on the highway out in eastern Oregon and nobody would care. https://c8.alamy.com/comp/X7XG6K/usa...oad-X7XG6K.jpg

Moreover, AFRAP only applies when "[a] person is operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic." No traffic, no violation. Go pop wheelies in the middle of the empty road.

Ohio laws say a motor vehicle needs to keep far right if traveling at less than
the normal speed of traffic.

Unfortunately, ORC 4511.55 says a bicyclist must ride "as near to the right side
of the roadway as practicable" with no mention of speed or other traffic. I'd say
it's a mistake in the law. There's no reason for a cyclist to hug the gutter when
there's no other traffic, or when the cyclist is keeping up with other traffic.

- Frank Krygowski

On 8/5/19 5:48 pm, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 08.05.2019 um 00:58 schrieb James:

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570

Not really like that guy.* I guess everyone rides a little
differently. I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least
ride there at a time of day when there was less motor traffic.

There's likely no "time of day when there's less traffic" (only a time
of night); avoiding that road might mean significant detours (in hilly
regions you tend to like staying in the valley rather than going over
the hills).



I find it fascinating the variation in driver behaviour, dependent on
the road being driven.

The road at my front gate is not 2 lanes wide. There is no centre white
line or fog lines. The edges are rough, and the road surface is rough.
The speed limit is 100km/h, though drivers rarely achieve that speed. I
don't think I've had a close pass on that road - ever. This is a "C" road.

On the highway (an "A" road) that is state owned and maintained, it is
wide, has shoulders mostly, and clear sight lines. The speed limit is
still 100km/h. Most drivers behave sensibly here too. Sometimes you
get one that is too lazy to slow down and wait until it is safe to pass,
but there is generally enough room to move away and leave space.

On the road I spoke of with no shoulder, it is a "B" road that connects
major towns but not state owned. It is a council owned and maintained
road. The sight lines are not as good as the A road. There is no
shoulder. The road surface is very poor in places, and the speed limit
is 100km/h. The difference is, unlike the C road where they rarely
achieve 100km/h and happily drive off the bitumen to pass, on the B road
the drivers try to maintain 100km/h though the road isn't really good
enough for it, and they don't want to slow at all to pass safely.

It's like there are three completely separate driving styles though all
the people are from the same area, and the style is dictated by the road
design.

BTW, I'll quite happily take a hilly and/or longer route to avoid roads
I dislike riding on. The B road I speak of is used a lot by commuters,
so early morning and late afternoon are busy times. Around 10am to 2pm
is much better.

--
JS

On 9/5/19 3:56 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2019 11:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:


And don't tell me you ride in as much inclement weather as I do...

I didn't say that. But I do ride on ice and on snow every winter.



There are places around here that, during the wet season, don't dry out.
The resulting green moss that grows on the road surface can be very
slippery, but generally not as slippery as ice.

--
JS

On 8/5/19 7:53 pm, Duane wrote:
James wrote:


I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.


We can ride two abreast, no more than 1.5m apart, and as far left as
practicable. On a road with no shoulder that would place the rider
furthest from the edge of the road pretty close to lane centre of a 3.5m
lane.

What's been most troubling has been the victim blaming when someone
dies. The rider Mike Hall, who was racing the IPWR, was hit from behind
and killed in the early hours (dark). The driver wasn't charged. The
police didn't keep Mike's clothes and such to be able to recreate the
scene. The coroner found Mike may have looked like a red road edge
marker post reflector, and suggested he should have done more to be more
conspicuous.

This is not an isolated case.

A young rider was hit from behind and killed by a young woman who had
been texting. The trial is on going, but the defence argues the rider
was wearing earbuds and should have been wearing more brightly coloured
clothes.

Again, blame the dead victim.

Isn't it the responsibility of the driver to overtake safely?

You might think so, but if you don't go out of your way to make it
exceptionally easy for them, you are at least partly to blame for your
own misfortune.

--
JS

On 5/8/2019 7:43 PM, James wrote:

snip

What's been most troubling has been the victim blaming when someone
dies.Â* The rider Mike Hall, who was racing the IPWR, was hit from behind
and killed in the early hours (dark).Â* The driver wasn't charged.Â* The
police didn't keep Mike's clothes and such to be able to recreate the
scene.Â* The coroner found Mike may have looked like a red road edge
marker post reflector, and suggested he should have done more to be more
conspicuous.

This is not an isolated case.

It was the race organizers that were at fault. The driver wasn't
impaired. The organizers should have required that all racers have
lights in low light conditions. If everyone had the same requirement
then everyone would have the same weight penalty. "The coroner made six
recommendations including a call for the Australian Capital Territory
and other state governments to require cyclists to use a flashing rear
light when driving in low-light conditions on rural roads."

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 5:28:08 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 3/5/19 3:16 pm, John B. wrote:


What kind of roads do you ride on. Over here the majority of the roads
that I use, both in Bangkok and the country side, have paved shoulders
as much as 6 feet wide which serve for a motorcycle and bicycle lane,
bus lane, breakdown lane, you name it lane. I honestly can't remember
when I impeded anyone else.



Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

--
JS

There's one piece of flat wide road out of town here, along a beautiful river landscape. There's even a superb bike/hiking path beside it, starting some way from the town and ending before the next town. The speed limit is 100kph, which would not be too disastrous if there were consistent hard shoulders, which is what the area to the left of an orange line is called here. However, the hard should wanders in and out, some places three feet wide, some places 12 inches, some place non-existent. Still, it's a nice wide road with nice wide lanes, so bicycles could share the road if they stayed well to the left, hugging the split log rail. Except that the road engineers felt the need to put up reflectors on triangular metal structures screwed to the split logs. The metal pyramids for holding the reflectors are at a perfect height to break the knees and shins of cyclists. We don't ride there.

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 5:28:08 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 3/5/19 3:16 pm, John B. wrote:


What kind of roads do you ride on. Over here the majority of the roads
that I use, both in Bangkok and the country side, have paved shoulders
as much as 6 feet wide which serve for a motorcycle and bicycle lane,
bus lane, breakdown lane, you name it lane. I honestly can't remember
when I impeded anyone else.



Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

--
JS

The widest of the lanes I ride regularly is so narrow that cars can pass only by each putting two wheels on the narrow verge between the tarmac and the ditch. I facilitate drivers passing me from behind by first of all riding in the middle of the lane until they have matched my speed, and then riding on the wrong side of the lane so that they pass driver to driver and can see how far the outer edge of their mirror is from me.

AJ
Method in the madness

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 2:38:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote to Slow Johnny:

I'll again recommend _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. Anyone who is really
into cycling should have read it long ago.

Is this the same John Franklin who died on the road out of my town according to a memorial cross on the verge just outside town?

If so, recommending his book is rather like recommending Jim Fixx as a jogging guru.

Andre Jute
Breathtaking stupidity

On 5/8/2019 10:43 PM, James wrote:
On 8/5/19 7:53 pm, Duane wrote:
James wrote:


I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones.Â* Taking lane center will get you a ticket.
When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.


We can ride two abreast, no more than 1.5m apart, and as far left as
practicable.Â* On a road with no shoulder that would place the rider
furthest from the edge of the road pretty close to lane centre of a 3.5m
lane.

What's been most troubling has been the victim blaming when someone
dies.Â* The rider Mike Hall, who was racing the IPWR, was hit from behind
and killed in the early hours (dark).Â* The driver wasn't charged.Â* The
police didn't keep Mike's clothes and such to be able to recreate the
scene.Â* The coroner found Mike may have looked like a red road edge
marker post reflector, and suggested he should have done more to be more
conspicuous.

This is not an isolated case.

A young rider was hit from behind and killed by a young woman who had
been texting.Â* The trial is on going, but the defence argues the rider
was wearing earbuds and should have been wearing more brightly coloured
clothes.

Again, blame the dead victim.

Isn't it the responsibility of the driver to overtake safely?

You might think so, but if you don't go out of your way to make it
exceptionally easy for them, you are at least partly to blame for your
own misfortune.

I would say if a bicyclist was in compliance with relevant laws - that
is, not directly causing his crash by his own violation - then judges
ought to disallow all such "he should have" arguments.

I think it's literally stupid for cyclists to perpetrate the "Danger!
Danger!" meme, continually calling for more and more "safety" measures.
People riding bikes in normal clothes, using normal brakes (not discs),
in daylight with no DRLs, wearing ordinary hats or no hat at all, should
not have to endure snipes from anyone, let alone other cyclists.

Those claiming you should or must wear day-glo, a plastic foam hat,
special lights, special brakes, special horns, special flags each time
you get on a bike are nuts. They are harming bicycling, and they are
harming society.

They would do better to camp outside a McDonalds and harangue every
overweight person who enters.


--
- Frank Krygowski