Maverick Sus: Anybody else sheared off a bolt?

6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
conical head and conical bolt on each.

My reaction on Day One was that these things looked kind of cheesey - to the
extent I've tried to avoid assembly-dissasembly for fear of a tool stripping
them.

Today I got out of the saddle for a hill and felt the rear wheel wiggle.
Stopped, and there it was: sheared that suckah right off.

I'm pretty religious with the torque wrench - although it's not out of the
question that the nut could have come loose.

Only other possible way I can think of that I may have sinned is squirting a
little ProLink chain lube into the things when they'd start to creak after
immersion in water. (the instructions say to assemble dry....).

I'm trying to think of a more robust replacement for these things. So far, I'm
thinking to use two of the conical nuts on a rod of stronger material. Red
LocTite one side, let it go off overnite, then torque the other in Blue....

Anybody?
--
PeteCresswell

(Pete Cresswell) wrote:
6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
conical head and conical bolt on each.

My reaction on Day One was that these things looked kind of cheesey - to the
extent I've tried to avoid assembly-dissasembly for fear of a tool stripping
them.

Today I got out of the saddle for a hill and felt the rear wheel wiggle.
Stopped, and there it was: sheared that suckah right off.

I'm pretty religious with the torque wrench - although it's not out of the
question that the nut could have come loose.

Only other possible way I can think of that I may have sinned is squirting a
little ProLink chain lube into the things when they'd start to creak after
immersion in water. (the instructions say to assemble dry....).

I'm trying to think of a more robust replacement for these things. So far, I'm
thinking to use two of the conical nuts on a rod of stronger material. Red
LocTite one side, let it go off overnite, then torque the other in Blue....

Anybody?

Bummer. Didn't you get it this year?
Your repair is worth a try, but I suspect Maverick is already using high
strength bolts. I use red loctite on the nuts on mine (also the two
that hold the shock to the swingarm).
Much as I love my Maverick-style Klein, I think when I get that next big
"issue", I'm on my second frame, I may just have to move on. 'Course,
with how much I've been riding it the last couple months, I'll be able
to pass it on to my grandkids. :-P

Shawn

RE/
Bummer. Didn't you get it this year?

Yes.


Your repair is worth a try, but I suspect Maverick is already using high
strength bolts. I use red loctite on the nuts on mine (also the two
that hold the shock to the swingarm).

They look conspicuously cheesey to me. "Low-Strength" would seem more
descriptive. I'm not even sure whether the material is metal or some kind of
plastic. One possibility, though, is that I had allowed the nut to come
partially unscrewed - somehow transferring stress to a place it shouldn't have
been. i.e. the strength when properly deployed is perfectly adequate...but the
system is not very fault-tolerant when things come loose.

I called Seven from the trail and they gave their condolences and volunteered to
warranty the bolt and ship me 2 more overnite, so I guess "repair" is taken care
of. I'm still, however, thinking in terms of a jury-rig kit in case it happens
again. Walking's OK....but riding home is preferable.


Much as I love my Maverick-style Klein, I think when I get that next big
"issue", I'm on my second frame, I may just have to move on. 'Course,
with how much I've been riding it the last couple months, I'll be able
to pass it on to my grandkids. :-P

Only thing that I was grumbling about was the supposed need to
dissassemble/reassemble with fresh anti-sieze when it started creaking (which
usually happened after immeresion or riding in heavy rain). Lately, though,
I've come to realize that the creaking that called for the dissasembly was
coming only from the area of those two bolts - and that squirting a little
ProLink chain lube in there took care of it. OTOH, maybe the ProLink attacked
the LocTite and precipitated the problem....gotta check the torque on the
surving bolt.

Since my contract exprired on Sept 30th, I've been riding mine a couple hours
every day. The more I ride it, the more I think I'll never want anything else.
If somebody ran over this thing tomorrow and their insurance sprang for a
replacement, I'd just call Seven and tell them to build me one *exactly* like
this one. Ran that past the local dealer and he said he hears the same thing
on a regular basis - except from guys that really are ordering another frame...


To be perfectly candid, Seven really ****ed me off while they were
spec-ing/building this thing. I'd call up and ask them to make this longer,
that shorter, or whatever...and they'd always reply to the effect of "No, we're
sticking to our design". At some point, they passed me up the chain of
command and a guy said something like: "Look, we've built a lot of bikes. We
know what we're doing. Trust us.".

I said "OK"...and it worked. In the end, I think they saved me from myself and
my cockamamie ideas.

Only improvements I can envision are a more elegant way to tension the chain
(I'm running a internal-geared hub), maybe a better set of forks - or at least
something with a lockout that's controllable from the handlebars, and a fewer
cable stops (doesn't seem rational to me to have exposed cable down on the swing
arms of an MTB).

--
PeteCresswell

"(Pete Cresswell)" wrote in message . ..
6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
conical head and conical bolt on each.

They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
because he rides that suspension design so well.

The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
butter.

JD

RE/
Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
swingarm on the way from trek/klein.

That confirms my suspicion that if I kept hammering on this thing after the
break that the rear swing arm would be damaged. I'm assuming that Angry Man
also broke the bolt that connects to the swing arm.... Seems like the other
bolt doesn't get as much stress.
--
PeteCresswell

JD wrote:
"(Pete Cresswell)" wrote in message . ..

6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
conical head and conical bolt on each.


They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
because he rides that suspension design so well.

The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
butter.

JD

One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
costs by using shoddy bolts? If you want to cut costs, use cheaper
paint. Is it easier for them just to replace things everytime for free,
rather than do it right the first time? I know you've probably hashed
this out a million times in the NG. Where does Maverick produce their
frames?

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

RE/
One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
costs by using shoddy bolts?

In my case it's a SevenCycles and I don't think they'd chince out on
anything...it's just not their niche.

I'm no engineer, but my take is that it's an engineering judgement thing.
Whoever designs it has to make tradeoffs between weight, durability,
installability, servicability in the field, fault tolerance in unexpected
situations and cost.

They came up with something that was light and seemed to do the job at hand.

One could hope that it will evolve into something that is more fault-tolerant or
at least could be replaced in the field....But I'm not holding my breath until
that happens.
--
PeteCresswell

"(Pete Cresswell)" wrote in message . ..
RE/
Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
swingarm on the way from trek/klein.

That confirms my suspicion that if I kept hammering on this thing after the
break that the rear swing arm would be damaged. I'm assuming that Angry Man
also broke the bolt that connects to the swing arm.... Seems like the other
bolt doesn't get as much stress.

He sheared both sides, maybe even simultaneously. They were too far
down in at the break and loctited. So, a new swinger is on the way.

JD

Ride-A-Lot wrote in message ...
JD wrote:
"(Pete Cresswell)" wrote in message . ..

6.4 miles walk home...Whew!

We're talking the two bolts that connect the link to the rest of the frame -
conical head and conical bolt on each.


They are cheesy. Angry Man sheared his off last week and has a new
swingarm on the way from trek/klein. That's twice now that he's
broken his trek/klein in less than two years of owning it. He doesn't
mind making "the machine" (aka trek) replace his bike frames because
it costs them, though he would prefer a Maverick American eventually
because he rides that suspension design so well.

The bottom line? Companies like trek make disposable bikes to those
who actually ride and ride often in various terrrain.

Also, before any of the doubters start claiming that Angry Man is a
hack and breaks bikes by thrashing down the trail, those who post here
and have ridden with him can testify that he rides as smooth as
butter.

JD

One would think that if they take the design from Maverick and basically
keep it exactly the same, one couldn't ruin it. Is it worth it to cut
costs by using shoddy bolts? If you want to cut costs, use cheaper
paint. Is it easier for them just to replace things everytime for free,
rather than do it right the first time?

I think it's fantastic because it really shows what all of the cookie
cutter bike companies like to do. They try to copy a good design,
change a few minor details to make it look original or "innovative",
and then cut corners where they shouldn't, making a disposable bike in
the process. Only a fool would ignore these sad facts.

I know you've probably hashed this out a million times in the NG.

Yeah, so it only makes foolish people more the fool for ignoring it.

Where does Maverick produce their frames?

I would wager to guess that Reco Diver knows and a quick phone call
would tell me.

JD

RE/
He sheared both sides, maybe even simultaneously. They were too far
down in at the break and loctited. So, a new swinger is on the way.

Do you know an email address for Angry Man?

I'm getting a suspicion of how I managed to toast this thing and would like to
hear if he made a similar move just before it failed.

I don't know the name of the move, but in a tight space when you want to turn
the bike; lean forward until the rear wheel is off the ground, then swing the
bike around until it's pointing in the direction you want to go and let the rear
wheel drop to the ground.

When I visualize this done on a downhill surface, I see the forces trying to
bend the frame in half when the rear wheel grabs the ground with the rider's
downhill momentum on it - and trying to pop the head off of the bolt that
connects the Mav link to the rear triangle.
--
PeteCresswell