|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
Frank K wrote in part:
I can't generate many weird anecdotes, anyway. I've had only one super-slow on-road fall in over 30 years, and I've never come close to hitting my head. Not very remarkable. Just like most cyclists' experiences, I dare say. That's where you're wrong Frank. Your injury free cycling career is the exception, not the rule. Robert |
Ads |
#42
|
|||||
|
|||||
First Helmet : jury is out.
Frank Krygowski [/i]
neil0502 wrote: [but I'm going to edit a bit. Neil's post is very unclear as to who wrote what. I'm going to attempt to insert double before what I actually said.] [Neil, please learn how to respond correctly!] [/quote] [pedantry and dogmatism ignored....] Quote:
Quote:
[snip] (at least I'm trying....) Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If, on the other hand, some helmet zealots convince a newbie roadie to wear a $20 Bell from now on, and this roadie clocks 15,000 accident free miles, then the damage done will have been . . . will have been . . . . Now you see, that's where I keep getting stuck. I guess the damage will have been: a) $20 wasted b) some more calories burned c) some extra sweat on hot days d) something about 'distorted environmental sounds' [quote][i]Originally posted by Frank Krygowski wrote: You may think this is all fine, but I don't. Especially since imposition of helmet laws and helmet promotion has been shown to seriously reduce cycling. I am consciously pro-cycling. I see overenthusiastic helmet promotion as being anti-cycling. So I'll tell what I know about the issue, using actual facts. I can't generate many weird anecdotes, anyway. I've had only one super- slow on-road fall in over 30 years, and I've never come close to hitting my head. Not very remarkable. Just like most cyclists' experiences, I dare say. I'm pro- good, solid, objective information and personal choice. In closing, two things: 1) May you have another 30yrs of accident free cycling. You are to be commended; 2) Still trying to get somebody to tell me the downside of helmet use (again . . . to be clear . . . that's not a position of helmet advocacy . . . . ) Neil -- |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
neil0502 wrote:
{Hugh Jass Memorial Snip ---convoluted posting style and gross verbosity amundo}[i] [quote]Originally posted by Frank Krygowski wrote: You may think this is all fine, but I don't. Especially since imposition of helmet laws and helmet promotion has been shown to seriously reduce cycling. I am consciously pro-cycling. I see overenthusiastic helmet promotion as being anti-cycling. So I'll tell what I know about the issue, using actual facts. I can't generate many weird anecdotes, anyway. I've had only one super- slow on-road fall in over 30 years, and I've never come close to hitting my head. Not very remarkable. Just like most cyclists' experiences, I dare say. I'm pro- good, solid, objective information and personal choice. In closing, two things: 1) May you have another 30yrs of accident free cycling. You are to be commended; 2) Still trying to get somebody to tell me the downside of helmet use (again . . . to be clear . . . that's not a position of helmet advocacy . . . . ) Neil OMFG, do you honestly expect anyone to read much less follow this ridiculous crap??? That was got to be the most unreadable post I've ever seen (couldn't bring myself to leave it all, but it was way WORSE than what's left above). And I'm subjected to M^V rants in AM-B! Bill "only good thing is it's a h*lmet thread, so who cares" S. |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
In article , r15757
@aol.com says... .... I got nothin'. Thanks for the citation. What really jumps out there is that .34 for peds as opposed to .17 for motor vehicles. I would be interested to see how Robinson gathered his numbers. Do you know? The suggestion that walking around is twice as likely as driving to result in a head injury _death_ I find far-fetched. I don't. Have you ever looked at the numbers of pedestrians in major cities who cut in and out of traffic, hoping it will stop for them? Especially kids. -- Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the newsgroups if possible). |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
In article , r15757
@aol.com says... Frank K wrote in part: I can't generate many weird anecdotes, anyway. I've had only one super-slow on-road fall in over 30 years, and I've never come close to hitting my head. Not very remarkable. Just like most cyclists' experiences, I dare say. That's where you're wrong Frank. Your injury free cycling career is the exception, not the rule. I doubt it. My last injury was over 30 years ago as well, when I hit a patch of ice I wasn't expecting while riding in the dark. -- Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the newsgroups if possible). |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
S O R N I wrote:
neil0502 wrote: {Hugh Jass Memorial Snip ---convoluted posting style and gross verbosity amundo} Originally posted by Frank Krygowski wrote: You may think this is all fine, but I don't. Especially since imposition of helmet laws and helmet promotion has been shown to seriously reduce cycling. I am consciously pro-cycling. I see overenthusiastic helmet promotion as being anti-cycling. So I'll tell what I know about the issue, using actual facts. I can't generate many weird anecdotes, anyway. I've had only one super- slow on-road fall in over 30 years, and I've never come close to hitting my head. Not very remarkable. Just like most cyclists' experiences, I dare say. I'm pro- good, solid, objective information and personal choice. In closing, two things: 1) May you have another 30yrs of accident free cycling. You are to be commended; 2) Still trying to get somebody to tell me the downside of helmet use (again . . . to be clear . . . that's not a position of helmet advocacy . . . . ) Neil OMFG, do you honestly expect anyone to read much less follow this ridiculous crap??? That was got to be the most unreadable post I've ever seen (couldn't bring myself to leave it all, but it was way WORSE than what's left above). And I'm subjected to M^V rants in AM-B! Bill "only good thing is it's a h*lmet thread, so who cares" S. Actually, Bill -- at least on my browser -- it displays in exceptionall clean fashion. As I'm fond of saying, though: if you have som information for me that would help me format my posts more legibly, I' be more than willing to learn (skewered . . . and by a fellow San Diegan . . . . sigh . . . . - |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
S O R N I wrote:
OMFG, do you honestly expect anyone to read much less follow this ridiculous crap??? That was got to be the most unreadable post I've ever seen (couldn't bring myself to leave it all, but it was way WORSE than what's left above). And I'm subjected to M^V rants in AM-B! ...may have figured this one out. I post and view vi www.cyclingforums.com. Since thiis is a Usenet forum, I presume man (Bill?) may not So . . . though it may look like a Merlin Cielo on mine, this ma explain why it looks like a -Mart bike to you Is there a link you can provide so that I can create legible posts i either environment? I'd be grateful... - |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
R15757 wrote:
Frank K wrote in part: I can't generate many weird anecdotes, anyway. I've had only one super-slow on-road fall in over 30 years, and I've never come close to hitting my head. Not very remarkable. Just like most cyclists' experiences, I dare say. That's where you're wrong Frank. Your injury free cycling career is the exception, not the rule. The exceptional part is that I've almost never fallen. I do have friends who seem to fall once a year, on average. The unexceptional part is my lack of serious injury. Contrary to the hype, injuries beyond abrasions and bruises are very rare. Serious head injuries are vanishingly rare. My clumsiest, one-fall-per-year friend has never been to the ER, for example. His favorite "trick" is a slow speed "can't get my foot out" fall, resulting in a skinned knee at worst. We need to keep in mind, most of the baby boom grew up on bikes, riding them every day. If bicycling were anywhere near as deadly as the handwringers claim, that entire generation would have been lost! -- ------------- Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
neil0502 wrote:
[pedantry and dogmatism ignored....] Good communication ignored, too, I see! (If you need help configuring your newsreader, I'm sure someone can give advice.) I think it's important to note that if the anti-helmet faction convinces an undecided newbie to ride without a helmet (and the newbie happened to be an undeclared mtb rider), then this mtb rider takes a header and cracks his scull, the outcome was tragic and avoidable. If, on the other hand, some helmet zealots convince a newbie roadie to wear a $20 Bell from now on, and this roadie clocks 15,000 accident free miles, then the damage done will have been . . . will have been . . . . Now you see, that's where I keep getting stuck. I guess the damage will have been: a) $20 wasted b) some more calories burned c) some extra sweat on hot days d) something about 'distorted environmental sounds' I think it's important to note that if the anti-car-helmet faction convinces an undecided novice driver to drive without a helmet... Well, you probably get the point. Why does your logic apply only to such a minor source of serious head injuries? Why does it not apply to the source of roughly 50% of the head injury fatalities in the US? I'm pro- good, solid, objective information and personal choice. I am, too. But what I see is not "good solid information." I see innuendo used to make cycling sound unusually dangerous. I see disproven numbers quoted repeatedly, out of context, to make helmets sound much more effective than they are. When conflicting data exists (and especially when helmet-skeptical data is much more robust) I see only pro-helmet data quoted. I see laws being passed which prevent personal choice. And I see data indicating large drops in cycling when that choice is prevented. I see people afraid of riding because of all the fear-mongering. Again, it's not a case of rational discussion using good information. It's heavy propaganda trying to convince people they're likely to die if they don't purchase a certain commercial product. And since there's no money to be made by _not_ selling helmets, the opposing view gets almost no publicity. In closing, two things: 1) May you have another 30yrs of accident free cycling. You are to be commended; 2) Still trying to get somebody to tell me the downside of helmet use (again . . . to be clear . . . that's not a position of helmet advocacy . . . . ) Let's look at this a different way: For you, there may be no downside to helmet use. But to the majority of the world's cyclists, or even America's cyclists, there MUST be a downside to helmet use. Why? Because, absent compelling laws, they choose not to use them! The reasons, I'm sure, vary with individuals. I've heard people say they believe it's a waste of money, or they sweat too much with a helmet, or they don't like the way it looks, or they worry about theft of the helmet, or they find it inconvenient to carry around off the bike, etc. But it shouldn't matter. It should be a personal decision. They should be free to balance benefits and detriments as they see fit. And I think the helmet promoters should just leave people alone. Everyone knows bike helmets exist. Bell Sports really does not need an army of do-gooders proselytizing for them. -- ------------- Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ For a quality usenet news server, try DNEWS, easy to install, fast, efficient and reliable. For home servers or carrier class installations with millions of users it will allow you to grow! ---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dnews.htm ---- |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
First Helmet : jury is out.
neil0502 wrote:
S O R N I wrote: {Hugh Jass Memorial Snip ---convoluted posting style and gross verbosity amundo} OMFG, do you honestly expect anyone to read much less follow this ridiculous crap??? That was got to be the most unreadable post I've ever seen (couldn't bring myself to leave it all, but it was way WORSE than what's left above). And I'm subjected to M^V rants in AM-B! Bill "only good thing is it's a h*lmet thread, so who cares" S. Actually, Bill -- at least on my browser -- it displays in exceptionally clean fashion. As I'm fond of saying, though: if you have some information for me that would help me format my posts more legibly, I'd be more than willing to learn. (skewered . . . and by a fellow San Diegan . . . . sigh . . . . ) Well, at least you're not ALL bad then! Neil, there's got to be a way to show QUOTING in your posts (I read your second note about Cycling Forums); either configure your newsreader or just access Usenet directly? (No idea what I just said, but it sounded good.) Vandenut uses a silly '.' to denote quoted text, which is extremely hard to read (especially long threads), but at least it's something. You make these LONG posts with nothing differentiating your added words to those to which you're replying, and it's just plain unreadable (or at least, no one with a life should have enough time to decipher it). Bill "maybe someone else can offer specific suggestions (that are anatomically possible)" S. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Bicycle helmet law can save lives | Garrison Hilliard | General | 146 | May 19th 04 05:42 AM |
How Do You Know if a Helmet Fits? | Elisa Francesca Roselli | General | 11 | April 24th 04 09:14 PM |
A Pleasant Helmet Debate | Stephen Harding | General | 12 | February 26th 04 06:32 AM |
Reports from Sweden | Garry Jones | General | 17 | October 14th 03 05:23 PM |
How I cracked my helmet | Rick Warner | General | 2 | July 12th 03 11:26 AM |