Vino gaining 19 seconds

As I stated above, it wasn't worth the risk, in my opinion, to even
respond to that "attack" considering the conditions and route. Not to
mention that without the wreck he would have been reeled in and
sprinted back to 10th.

However, one thing that might actually work to the disadvantage for
Vino and TMO is that it brings the "who's the team leader" issue even
more to the front. Going from 15 seconds ahead of Jan to 34 seconds
ahead isn't exactly helping Jan solidify his position.

D

Right, the managers of T-Mobil were probably incredibly
upset with Vino, because they wanted him to save his
strength to ride a hard but very even tempo up mountain climbs
so Ullrich wouldn't lose too much time to Armstrong and get
a record of 2nd place finishes.

-ilan

David Ferguson a =E9crit :
As I stated above, it wasn't worth the risk, in my opinion, to even
respond to that "attack" considering the conditions and route. Not to
mention that without the wreck he would have been reeled in and
sprinted back to 10th.

However, one thing that might actually work to the disadvantage for
Vino and TMO is that it brings the "who's the team leader" issue even
more to the front. Going from 15 seconds ahead of Jan to 34 seconds
ahead isn't exactly helping Jan solidify his position.
=20
D

Lol. You're funny.

What an issue it really does have to be for them.

You know Vino is thinking "heck, if second is all were going to get I
want it to be me".

Jannie lost that slot to a TMO last year so I expect Vino would just
as soon have it.

D

On 7 Jul 2005 15:43:38 -0700, wrote:

Right, the managers of T-Mobil were probably incredibly
upset with Vino, because they wanted him to save his
strength to ride a hard but very even tempo up mountain climbs
so Ullrich wouldn't lose too much time to Armstrong and get
a record of 2nd place finishes.

-ilan

David Ferguson a écrit :
As I stated above, it wasn't worth the risk, in my opinion, to even
respond to that "attack" considering the conditions and route. Not to
mention that without the wreck he would have been reeled in and
sprinted back to 10th.

However, one thing that might actually work to the disadvantage for
Vino and TMO is that it brings the "who's the team leader" issue even
more to the front. Going from 15 seconds ahead of Jan to 34 seconds
ahead isn't exactly helping Jan solidify his position.

D

David Ferguson wrote:
snip
However, one thing that might actually work to the disadvantage for
Vino and TMO is that it brings the "who's the team leader" issue even
more to the front.

I see how this works to Jan's disadvantage but it's all to TMO and
Vino's favor.

Jan is past his prime. Following wheels is not going to beat Lance.
Vino has panache, he is the only one in the race that has a strategy
that has a chance to win, but I am not sure his body is up to it. It
would be a shame if they made Vino sacrifice himself for Ullrich.

Joel wrote:

Vino has panache,



snip



Dumbass -

That is a very serious accusation. I hope you have justification for
it.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"David Ferguson" schreef in bericht
...
However, one thing that might actually work to the disadvantage for
Vino and TMO is that it brings the "who's the team leader" issue even
more to the front. Going from 15 seconds ahead of Jan to 34 seconds
ahead isn't exactly helping Jan solidify his position.

I really don't understand this kind of reasoning. Trolling against it won't
help, I concede. Ofcourse it's good for T-Mobile if Vinokourov gains time.
The race is about gaining time, so if he does that, it's good. There is no
leadership problem in T-Mobile, just as Saeco had no leadership problem in
last years' giro. In 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004, the team Mercatone Uno had a
single leader for whom the riders would do anything short of sacrificing
their lives. In 2000, they switched leadership halfway during the race.
Guess which giro they won, Einstein.

Supporting the strongest rider in the team is good. If Ullrich fails and
Vinokourov is better, then it is smart of the other riders, including
Ullrich, to ride for Vinokourov. The riders on this team know eachother and
they get along. Even if Guerini would win, they'd all be thrilled.

At the same time, if Armstrong failed miserably and Popovych was doing much
better, Discovery would switch leaders, too. They're just counting on it
that that isn't going to happen. T-Mobile cannot afford that luxury. But
it's not such a big deal: all they have to do is not sacrifice Vinokourov,
which won't be too difficult, since the pressure is on Discovery to set the
pace in the mountains.

This 'T-mobile has a leadership problem' is the biggest crap I've read here
since tj from az asked how he could ride the tour.

Finally someone said it.

KEnny

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:53:08 +0200, "Jonathan v.d. Sluis"
wrote:

"David Ferguson" schreef in bericht
.. .
However, one thing that might actually work to the disadvantage for
Vino and TMO is that it brings the "who's the team leader" issue even
more to the front. Going from 15 seconds ahead of Jan to 34 seconds
ahead isn't exactly helping Jan solidify his position.

I really don't understand this kind of reasoning. Trolling against it won't
help, I concede. Ofcourse it's good for T-Mobile if Vinokourov gains time.
The race is about gaining time, so if he does that, it's good. There is no
leadership problem in T-Mobile, just as Saeco had no leadership problem in
last years' giro. In 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004, the team Mercatone Uno had a
single leader for whom the riders would do anything short of sacrificing
their lives. In 2000, they switched leadership halfway during the race.
Guess which giro they won, Einstein.

Supporting the strongest rider in the team is good. If Ullrich fails and
Vinokourov is better, then it is smart of the other riders, including
Ullrich, to ride for Vinokourov. The riders on this team know eachother and
they get along. Even if Guerini would win, they'd all be thrilled.

At the same time, if Armstrong failed miserably and Popovych was doing much
better, Discovery would switch leaders, too. They're just counting on it
that that isn't going to happen. T-Mobile cannot afford that luxury. But
it's not such a big deal: all they have to do is not sacrifice Vinokourov,
which won't be too difficult, since the pressure is on Discovery to set the
pace in the mountains.

This 'T-mobile has a leadership problem' is the biggest crap I've read here
since tj from az asked how he could ride the tour.



As I said before, having two leaders isn't a problem if they are both
dominatin (Hinault & LeMond) but whether you want to admit it or not
the rest of the riders of TMO lay there at night thinking that one or
the other should be the team's focus. That is not a postive thing. Not
a debilitating thing and I never suggested it was. But It doesn't help
morale.

D

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote in
:

Supporting the strongest rider in the team is good. If Ullrich fails and
Vinokourov is better, then it is smart of the other riders, including
Ullrich, to ride for Vinokourov. The riders on this team know eachother
and they get along. Even if Guerini would win, they'd all be thrilled.

At the same time, if Armstrong failed miserably and Popovych was doing
much better, Discovery would switch leaders, too. They're just counting
on it that that isn't going to happen.

That scenario has been previously proposed here. I couldn't disagree more
strongly. Discovery is all about LANCE! winning the TdF, and no one else. And
that's their weakness. CSC is about someone working for Bjarne winning.
Telekom is about some guy in pink winning. Does Discovery have other guys
capable of winning? To be sure. But they're all going to be working for
LANCE!, so that ain't going to happen. The other teams should realize this,
and attack, attack, attack. Hit him like they're crack whores, and he's a
pinata full of rock. If you take Popovych or Savoldelli [did I spell it
right, Ken?] along for the ride, who cares? Because the very next day,
they'll be back, working for LANCE!, fetching his bottles, and trying to drag
him back into contention. Because that's what they're there for.

Don't think it will work? It's got a much better chance than what they've
been trying the last few years.