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#1001
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 7, 7:35 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
How does defensive driving apply? The only similar situation would be on a low-powered scooter that could not keep pace with other motorized traffic. False. When you're simply cruising down the road in your vehicle, the principles of defensive driving apply, whether you're being passed or not, because you have to be ready for encroachment from the wings, watch the road surface, etc. While you're being passed these principles of defensive driving are even more important.. Furthermore, when you're being passed, in any vehicle, the principles of defensive driving should be applied to your relationship with that anonymous driver to the extent that it is practicable to apply those principles. Obviously in passing situations the operator of the vehicle being passed must rely at least somewhat on the faculties of the passing driver. |
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#1002
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On 12/8/2010 11:26 AM, RobertH wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:35 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° How does defensive driving apply? The only similar situation would be on a low-powered scooter that could not keep pace with other motorized traffic. False. When you're simply cruising down the road in your vehicle, the principles of defensive driving apply, whether you're being passed or not, because you have to be ready for encroachment from the wings, watch the road surface, etc. While you're being passed these principles of defensive driving are even more important.. Furthermore, when you're being passed, in any vehicle, the principles of defensive driving should be applied to your relationship with that anonymous driver to the extent that it is practicable to apply those principles. Obviously in passing situations the operator of the vehicle being passed must rely at least somewhat on the faculties of the passing driver. Right. Here's a link that has some of the basic principles: http://www.allsands.com/howto/defens...vin_xwv_gn.htm Most of the suggestions make sense to me but particularly relevant to this thread a 5. Anticipate the mistakes or unsafe maneuvers of the other drivers. Notice that it doesn't say "unless you are controlling the lane" and 16. If a tailgater is following you, move to another lane if possible or pull to the side of the road and let the tailgater pass you. Notice that it doesn't say to stay in the center of the road and maintain your right to be there. Nor does it say that you will be a cowardly, subservient wimp for getting out of the way of the guy behind you driving dangerously. |
#1003
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 8, 6:28 am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/8/2010 12:34 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Dec 7, 8:21 pm, wrote: Frank writes: Then you also talked about bailing out of the road entirely and riding the sidewalk. Did I get that wrong? Yes, you got that wrong. I said something to the effect that I would be looking beyond the road and taking account of *all* my options. But since you now seem to be adding a sidewalk to your scenario, it's a considerable option. That's what I thought. So we put you down as a sidewalk cyclist. What don't you understand about "taking account of all my options?" And why do you ignore the fact that he's talking about what he would do when the truck wasn't stopping? Only an idiot sits in the middle of the road pedaling at 20-30k with a truck coming up behind them at speed. Just so you know - I am... uh... "unorthodox" :-), shall we say, in my approach to bicycling as transportation. I imagine I'm the irredeemable heathen up river. It's well documented. Oh, also, I don't call myself a "cyclist"; "cycling" is something my washing machine does. I Ride Bike :-) So anyway I'm not just talking about if the truck is coming to mow me down. Even if he sees me and slows, I don't like the circumstances (packed traffic lane to my left, curb to my right, more traffic being held up behind - I am very apt to bail one way or another in that situation anyway. There are always better routes - maybe just a shot away through the gap over there by the bushes at 7-Eleven. Depends on an infinity of constantly changing circumstances and my fickle whims. I can get down with rush hour traffic, but revel in the ability to go so many, many ways that the cars and trucks simply cannot and get away - quite the opposite approach, as I see it, to "vehicular cycling". It's a rush :-) I thought that you said you studied defensive driving? While it's great to benefit from the experience of others, there's only one way to really learn what it takes to survive. Frank seems to think that because I might not ride "properly", I must be ignorant and dense as his poor imaginary buddy Fred, but more incorrigible, I suppose. I know stuff, though (just let me know if you need any help with more "positions" there, Frank ;-), and like anyone, learn more every day. Although I'm very nice to them, I suppose even those tenacious people at the door with the booklets eventually figure I'm not worth the effort, too. Just so you know :-) |
#1004
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 8, 8:26 am, RobertH wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:35 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° How does defensive driving apply? The only similar situation would be on a low-powered scooter that could not keep pace with other motorized traffic. False. When you're simply cruising down the road in your vehicle, the principles of defensive driving apply, whether you're being passed or not, because you have to be ready for encroachment from the wings, watch the road surface, etc. While you're being passed these principles of defensive driving are even more important.. Furthermore, when you're being passed, in any vehicle, the principles of defensive driving should be applied to your relationship with that anonymous driver to the extent that it is practicable to apply those principles. Obviously in passing situations the operator of the vehicle being passed must rely at least somewhat on the faculties of the passing driver. You have to count on it. It doesn't matter what line you take. In town, I just try to keep pace+ or keep out of the way somewhere. Out in the countryside - where most of my miles are - there's no keeping pace with cars, so as soon as I hear any behind, I start scoping out (got it right this time :-) the right edge and beyond and finding a line over that way. |
#1005
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On 12/8/2010 11:36 AM, Dan O wrote:
snip So anyway I'm not just talking about if the truck is coming to mow me down. Even if he sees me and slows, I don't like the circumstances (packed traffic lane to my left, curb to my right, more traffic being held up behind - I am very apt to bail one way or another in that situation anyway. There are always better routes - maybe just a shot away through the gap over there by the bushes at 7-Eleven. If I'm on a road like he described, I'm probably in the lane unless it gets unsafe IMO. I said that I'd do like you described if I thought the truck didn't see me. Depends on an infinity of constantly changing circumstances and my fickle whims. I can get down with rush hour traffic, but revel in the ability to go so many, many ways that the cars and trucks simply cannot and get away - quite the opposite approach, as I see it, to "vehicular cycling". It's a rush :-) Like I've said countless times here, I definitely prefer to NOT ride with cars. When I'm on my weekend rides, I look for routes without much traffic. Even some with bike paths paralleling the road. Seems like more fun going down the mountain at 60k in a lane without cars. But when I commute to work I have little choice. And when I do ride with cars, what I will do in any given circumstance depends. As you say, there are many and they change. I thought that you said you studied defensive driving? While it's great to benefit from the experience of others, there's only one way to really learn what it takes to survive. Frank seems to think that because I might not ride "properly", I must be ignorant and dense as his poor imaginary buddy Fred, but more incorrigible, I suppose. I know stuff, though (just let me know if you need any help with more "positions" there, Frank ;-), and like anyone, learn more every day. IMO you should ride anyway that you like. I would be the last one to to tell anyone how to ride their bicycle. I would advise defensive driving and some respect to the ones that you share the road with. If you choose not to, it's up to you. Other than that, enjoy riding your bike. Although I'm very nice to them, I suppose even those tenacious people at the door with the booklets eventually figure I'm not worth the effort, too. Just so you know :-) No problem. |
#1006
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 8, 12:06*pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
Like I've said countless times here, I definitely prefer to NOT ride with cars. *When I'm on my weekend rides, I look for routes without much traffic. *Even some with bike paths paralleling the road. *Seems like more fun going down the mountain at 60k in a lane without cars. But when I commute to work I have little choice. *And when I do ride with cars, what I will do in any given circumstance depends. So are you, too, one of those guys who frequently ride the sidewalks because the road makes them nervous? - Frank Krygowski |
#1007
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OT - Medical Costs
Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 7, 4:27 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article , T m Sherm n _ " wrote: On 12/6/2010 11:04 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: In , Peter wrote: [...] Medicine, in the US, via a number of mechanisms, is pretty much a cartel. Bull****. But you have to stop mixing things up to be able to understand that. The financing of medical care in the US is a cartel. You'd have to prove collusion between insurance companies to prevent competition or inflate prices to demonstrate that health care finance is a cartel. It may very well be, and if so it is one of many (along with the oil industry, the cell phone industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the...). Drug companies, OTOH, operate as monopolies rather than as cartels. Insurance policies and premiums are approved by state regulators. Premiums are set based on actuarial data, and annual increases must be approved. Insurance companies are treated like regulated utilities and not cartels in the sense that they are competitors engaged in illegal price fixing or other monopoly-like activity. The problem is that there are too few insurers competing for business, so there is no real choice for consumers. Patent rights may give drug companies "monopolies" on certain drugs in the same way that Shimano has a monopoly on Di2, but the drug companies are not "monopolies." Since we are talking about multiple competitors, it would have to be a trust or a cartel in any event. The problem is that market forces are very, very weak in the health care industry. The capitalist model does not work well. I am pushing for a complete overhaul: socialized voo-doo. -- Jay Beattie. Here's your medical supplier of the futu http://www.dayuvoodoodolls.com/ Stick 2 pins in it and report through our online utility (don't try to call me; we don't take calls now.) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#1008
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 8, 11:26*am, RobertH wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:35 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° How does defensive driving apply? *The only similar situation would be on a low-powered scooter that could not keep pace with other motorized traffic. False. When you're simply cruising down the road in your vehicle, the principles of defensive driving apply, whether you're being passed or not, because you have to be ready for encroachment from the wings, watch the road surface, etc. While you're being passed these principles of defensive driving are even more important.. Furthermore, when you're being passed, in any vehicle, the principles of defensive driving should be applied to your relationship with that anonymous driver to the extent that it is practicable to apply those principles. Obviously in passing situations the operator of the vehicle being passed must rely at least somewhat on the faculties of the passing driver. So, Robert: Of course, I know you'd be ever alert, well prepared, extremely skillful and always taking responsibility for your own safety, etc. But in a 10 foot lane, curb at the right, with an 8.5 foot truck behind you, where exactly would you ride? - Frank Krygowski |
#1009
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 8, 11:10*am, RobertH wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:37 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: I don't ride in door zones, period. *If there are parked cars, I'm a good six feet away from them. *Yes, sometimes that puts me at the left side of the lane. *This isn't difficult. But what if there are no parked cars. Why not ride further left? Wouldn't that be more effective? It can be. Sometimes I do. "Down the middle" doesn't mean anybody's used a tape measure. So Robert, where would you ride? - Frank Krygowski |
#1010
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Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009
On Dec 8, 9:27 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 8, 12:06 pm, Duane Hébert wrote: Like I've said countless times here, I definitely prefer to NOT ride with cars. When I'm on my weekend rides, I look for routes without much traffic. Even some with bike paths paralleling the road. Seems like more fun going down the mountain at 60k in a lane without cars. But when I commute to work I have little choice. And when I do ride with cars, what I will do in any given circumstance depends. So are you, too, one of those guys who frequently ride the sidewalks because the road makes them nervous? I just got back from the store. On the way there, pretty much smack dab down the middle no hands kind of weaving a lot around puddles, wheeljied clear across main really nice, rolled up the driveway, where a little diagonal sidewalk cuts between a big tree and a flower bed made of concrete blocks. Wet leaves on the sidewalk, taking care not to cut it too hard there on the slick tires, over shot a little and wound with both wheels slipping in bare mud of the tree's root crown. Wheee! |
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