Bicyclist Fatalities in AZ 2009

On 11/29/2010 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Nov 29, 12:26 am, wrote:

A "serious" injury is also easy to locate among the other injuries --
it's the one that causes the patient to be admitted to the hospital.
By this measure American bicyclists are on the receiving end of about
30,000 serious injuries per year.

And so...? Should we stop saying bicycling is a good thing, and just
warn people to give it up, because it's so dangerous?

No, we should stop denying the very real risks and do something to
correct them. It has been done elsewhere.

On 11/29/2010 2:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Nov 29, 7:08 am, Peter wrote:
On 11/28/2010 10:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:


The Portland study delivered a reminder every month, asking
participants to input any bicycling injury, no matter how small, that
occurred since the previous monthly reminder. (That would apparently
include things like scratches from lifting the bike onto a bus
rack.)

Or not.



An injury that required five weeks to heal would be remembered at
least a year later, and could have been recorded with an annual
survey. But such memorable events were far more severe than the
minimum injury they intended to record. They wanted to miss not even
a tiny scratch you'd forget five weeks later. Therefore they asked
about injuries every four weeks.

Wild (and self-serving) speculation.

Did you read the article?

Yes, but apparently you read things I didn't, such as why they collected
data monthly.


And they used the term "major injury" for _any_ injury that _any_
medical person had looked at.

I think "major injury" should not include those that heal quickly,
without complications, after only very basic treatment like cleaning
and band-aids. Do you disagree? When your kid got a scrape on a
knee, did you really call that a "major injury"?

No, but I have never taken a child to a doctor for a knee scrape, either.


And I think an injury likely forgotten after a month is negligible.
But this study's authors faulted other studies for failing to record
such injuries.

The study was obviously designed to hype the "danger" of bicycling.
And you defend it.

This is a city that's trying very hard to promote cycling (and
succeeding). It's absurd that they would have the agenda you accuse them
of. I applaud their efforts to gather statistics, it's the only way to
get a real handle on the risks. You're the only one who seems to be
"hype-ing".

On 11/30/2010 9:37 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 11/30/2010 9:04 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
[...]
One of the joys of socialism is that there is not usually enough money
to go around for things like education and health care.[...]

When did Canada become socialist?


That was mostly tongue in cheek. Canada is actually a parliamentary
democracy (see Douglas Adams' comments on that idea)

But there is a federal party with seats in parliament called the NDP
(New Democratic Party) that profess to be social democrats. And of
course we have the actual Socialist Party and the Marxist Lenninist
party but these are about as popular as the Green Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociali...racy_in_Canada

On 11/30/2010 11:56 PM, Jobst Brandt wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:

: :Thanks for the link.
:
: :Since we disagree about the fundamental points of the statistics, I'll
: :leave you to ignore my points.
:
: What's that? You made a specific claim, which you can't support,
: because it's false, that smoke detectors have no safety benefits.
: I'm not ignoring your point. I'm disproving it. Did you have some
: other point.
:

:Why do you use a colon instead of the standard greater-than sign to
:indicate the level of quoting?

David Scheidt wrote:

Why do you post in a broken 8 bit code page?

You do not like UTF-8? Why are you avoiding my question?

He has a broken newsreader as many MS people do. They and their
systems don't understand "bottom response" or citation symbols.

The latest version of Windows Live Mail has solved this problem by
removing the ability to automatically quote completely.

On 11/30/2010 11:01 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 11/30/2010 8:40 AM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
On 11/30/2010 6:02 AM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Nov 30, 6:13 am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° _ _
wrote:


It's a wonder my pal Frank Krygowski uses his realname on his posts,
when he falsifies quotes.

But you stand by his every word. Birds of a feather.

At least Frank doesn't wake up every morning and forge a new e-mail
address in order to get around everyone's filters.

Adding extraneous characters is not forging an email address. Forging an
email address would be using someone else's email address. Nym-shifting
is not forgery.

Furthermore, if Scarf kill-files people, he should keep it to himself.
If you kill-file someone, pretend that they do not exist, instead of
cowardly commenting and sniping second hand. Hell, even Ed Dolan knows
as much.


You do realize that some newsreaders will allow you to be kill filed
as they either understand utf8 or use your header instead.
I tested and was able to do so. However, I prefer the humor.

On 11/29/2010 2:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

b) And what do I do when the speed limit is 70 kph = 45 mph and the
lane is too narrow to share? Yes, I take the lane. I have a right to
the road, and I have a specific right to take the lane, called out in
state law. Everyone behind me does slow down. I don't care if they
smile and wave, and I don't bother to look for those actions.

Please don't pretend a cyclists can't ride a 45 mph street without a
bike lane.

He didn't say that.

That kind of thinking could get us segregated off most of
the world's roads.

For someone who's always harping about "fear mongering", you're no slouch.

On 11/29/2010 3:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

We rode as legal vehicle operators, we stayed out of door zones, we
obeyed traffic lights and stop signs, we signaled when necessary and
merged into the proper lane at the proper time and we enjoyed the ride
tremendously. To the consternation of some, what we did was often
called "vehicular cycling."

Let's not pretend it doesn't work, or that it's very difficult. Let's
certainly not pretend that it isn't adequately safe.

When science replaced anecdotes we left the dark ages.

On 11/30/2010 4:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Nov 30, 3:20 pm, Duane wrote:

I find that motorists tend to move to the right when there is two
way traffic in order to create distance between themselves and the
on coming traffic and this takes my space. With the lane, this
doesn't happen. They can drive right up to the lane but they
can't enter it. So I have a truck at my elbow. Without the lane I
have a truck at my elbow that I hope sees me because if not,he can
move right. Trucks hit cyclists in their blind spots. With the lane he
can see the lane even if he doesn't see me.

Didn't work for these folks:

http://news.opb.org/article/614-dead...list-portland/

Very different example.

On 11/30/2010 5:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But I still routinely break 25 mph, sometimes 30 mph, on one downhill
on the way to work. Horribly, mortally dangerous, I know. I could
"loose" [sic] control at any moment and die! And the fact that it
hasn't happened in 30 years of riding to work at this job mean nothing
at all!

Pretty much true. Pesky statistics again.

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° " wrote:
:On 11/30/2010 10:21 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:
: :On 11/30/2010 10:45 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
: : wrote:
: : [...]
: : ear David,
: :
: : :Thanks for the link.
: :
: : :Since we disagree about the fundamental points of the statistics, I'll
: : :leave you to ignore my points.
: :
: : What's that? You made a specific claim, which you can't support,
: : because it's false, that smoke detectors have no safety benefits.
: : I'm not ignoring your point. I'm disproving it. Did you have some
: : other point.
: :
:
: :Why do you use a colon instead of the standard greater-than sign to
: :indicate the level of quoting?
:
: Why do you post in a broken 8 bit code page?
:
:You do not like UTF-8?

I love UTF-8. You don't use it.

:Why are you avoiding my question?

I use the : because I've used it for nearly 20 years, and I think the
son-of-1036 people ****ed up.

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