Seoul Cycle Design Competition Winner

In article ,
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° " wrote:

Well, I have been in exactly one (1) LBS in the US where they both have
fully equipped commuter bicycles for sale on the shop floor and would
not act with at least some disdain when inquired about them.

Again, and? I even noted that many bike shops in the US are poorly run,
but you can probably look at the culture they exist in to see why. I
mean, who do you think they *expect* to be coming in looking for a
comfort bike? Someone with a lot of cash to spend now and in the
future, or someone who is just looking to "try out" biking by buying the
lowest-margin thing they can find and then stick it in the back of the
garage after 1 month?

You can't run a business supplying comfort bikes if the demand just
isn't there. If the industry had half a clue they'd be taking more
long-term steps to shift the balance over by fitting cycling in with the
existing culture. Instead, they're doing short-term targeting of the
existing high-end recreational market.

--
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My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, astraweb.com,
and probably your server, too.

On 12/9/2010 2:19 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

Well, I have been in exactly one (1) LBS in the US where they both have
fully equipped commuter bicycles for sale on the shop floor and would
not act with at least some disdain when inquired about them.

Again, and? I even noted that many bike shops in the US are poorly run,
but you can probably look at the culture they exist in to see why. I
mean, who do you think they *expect* to be coming in looking for a
comfort bike? Someone with a lot of cash to spend now and in the
future, or someone who is just looking to "try out" biking by buying the
lowest-margin thing they can find and then stick it in the back of the
garage after 1 month?

You can't run a business supplying comfort bikes if the demand just
isn't there. If the industry had half a clue they'd be taking more
long-term steps to shift the balance over by fitting cycling in with the
existing culture. Instead, they're doing short-term targeting of the
existing high-end recreational market.


What do you actually mean by comfort bikes? Bents? Touring? Something
else?

On 12/9/2010 1:37 PM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/9/2010 2:19 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

Well, I have been in exactly one (1) LBS in the US where they both have
fully equipped commuter bicycles for sale on the shop floor and would
not act with at least some disdain when inquired about them.

Again, and? I even noted that many bike shops in the US are poorly run,
but you can probably look at the culture they exist in to see why. I
mean, who do you think they *expect* to be coming in looking for a
comfort bike? Someone with a lot of cash to spend now and in the
future, or someone who is just looking to "try out" biking by buying the
lowest-margin thing they can find and then stick it in the back of the
garage after 1 month?

You can't run a business supplying comfort bikes if the demand just
isn't there. If the industry had half a clue they'd be taking more
long-term steps to shift the balance over by fitting cycling in with the
existing culture. Instead, they're doing short-term targeting of the
existing high-end recreational market.


What do you actually mean by comfort bikes? Bents? Touring? Something else?

The bikes that would be really comfortable to the newbie are
crank-forward (CF) uprights and recumbents. The CF upright is certainly
an easier sell.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Op 9-12-2010 22:41, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° schreef:
On 12/9/2010 1:37 PM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/9/2010 2:19 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

Well, I have been in exactly one (1) LBS in the US where they both have
fully equipped commuter bicycles for sale on the shop floor and would
not act with at least some disdain when inquired about them.

Again, and? I even noted that many bike shops in the US are poorly run,
but you can probably look at the culture they exist in to see why. I
mean, who do you think they *expect* to be coming in looking for a
comfort bike? Someone with a lot of cash to spend now and in the
future, or someone who is just looking to "try out" biking by buying the
lowest-margin thing they can find and then stick it in the back of the
garage after 1 month?

You can't run a business supplying comfort bikes if the demand just
isn't there. If the industry had half a clue they'd be taking more
long-term steps to shift the balance over by fitting cycling in with the
existing culture. Instead, they're doing short-term targeting of the
existing high-end recreational market.


What do you actually mean by comfort bikes? Bents? Touring? Something
else?

The bikes that would be really comfortable to the newbie are
crank-forward (CF) uprights and recumbents. The CF upright is certainly
an easier sell.



Why is that? I find bikes with a slack seattube angle uncomfortable. I
had some trouble to find a commuter that did not have a slack seattube
angle like the so called comfort bikes here in the Netherlands.

Lou

On 12/9/2010 4:15 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 9-12-2010 22:41, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° schreef:
On 12/9/2010 1:37 PM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/9/2010 2:19 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

Well, I have been in exactly one (1) LBS in the US where they both
have
fully equipped commuter bicycles for sale on the shop floor and would
not act with at least some disdain when inquired about them.

Again, and? I even noted that many bike shops in the US are poorly run,
but you can probably look at the culture they exist in to see why. I
mean, who do you think they *expect* to be coming in looking for a
comfort bike? Someone with a lot of cash to spend now and in the
future, or someone who is just looking to "try out" biking by buying
the
lowest-margin thing they can find and then stick it in the back of the
garage after 1 month?

You can't run a business supplying comfort bikes if the demand just
isn't there. If the industry had half a clue they'd be taking more
long-term steps to shift the balance over by fitting cycling in with
the
existing culture. Instead, they're doing short-term targeting of the
existing high-end recreational market.


What do you actually mean by comfort bikes? Bents? Touring? Something
else?

The bikes that would be really comfortable to the newbie are
crank-forward (CF) uprights and recumbents. The CF upright is certainly
an easier sell.



Why is that? I find bikes with a slack seattube angle uncomfortable. I
had some trouble to find a commuter that did not have a slack seattube
angle like the so called comfort bikes here in the Netherlands.

Lou

With a slack enough angle, a real seat [1] instead of a saddle with high
pressure points can be used. The slack angle also takes all the
pressure off the rider's hands.

[1] http://www.ransbikes.com/Zenetik09/Enlarge09.html

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° " wrote:
:On 12/9/2010 4:15 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: Op 9-12-2010 22:41, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° schreef:
: On 12/9/2010 1:37 PM, Duane Hébert wrote:
: On 12/9/2010 2:19 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
: In ,
: Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:
:
: Well, I have been in exactly one (1) LBS in the US where they both
: have
: fully equipped commuter bicycles for sale on the shop floor and would
: not act with at least some disdain when inquired about them.
:
: Again, and? I even noted that many bike shops in the US are poorly run,
: but you can probably look at the culture they exist in to see why. I
: mean, who do you think they *expect* to be coming in looking for a
: comfort bike? Someone with a lot of cash to spend now and in the
: future, or someone who is just looking to "try out" biking by buying
: the
: lowest-margin thing they can find and then stick it in the back of the
: garage after 1 month?
:
: You can't run a business supplying comfort bikes if the demand just
: isn't there. If the industry had half a clue they'd be taking more
: long-term steps to shift the balance over by fitting cycling in with
: the
: existing culture. Instead, they're doing short-term targeting of the
: existing high-end recreational market.
:
:
: What do you actually mean by comfort bikes? Bents? Touring? Something
: else?
:
: The bikes that would be really comfortable to the newbie are
: crank-forward (CF) uprights and recumbents. The CF upright is certainly
: an easier sell.
:
:
:
: Why is that? I find bikes with a slack seattube angle uncomfortable. I
: had some trouble to find a commuter that did not have a slack seattube
: angle like the so called comfort bikes here in the Netherlands.
:
: Lou

:With a slack enough angle, a real seat with high
ressure points can be used. The slack angle also takes all the
ressure off the rider's hands.

fixed that for you.

--
sig 67

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

With a slack enough angle, a real seat [1] instead of a saddle with high
pressure points can be used. The slack angle also takes all the
pressure off the rider's hands.

[1] http://www.ransbikes.com/Zenetik09/Enlarge09.html


Is that design strong enough for heavier folks? Looks to me like the
seat tube would bend pretty easy, or the seat post.

JS.

On 12/9/2010 5:27 PM, James Steward wrote:
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

With a slack enough angle, a real seat [1] instead of a saddle with
high pressure points can be used. The slack angle also takes all the
pressure off the rider's hands.

[1] http://www.ransbikes.com/Zenetik09/Enlarge09.html


Is that design strong enough for heavier folks? Looks to me like the
seat tube would bend pretty easy, or the seat post.

Rated for 275 pounds: http://www.ransbikes.com/zenetikspecs.htm

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

In article ,
Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 5-12-2010 22:20, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° schreef:
On 12/5/2010 2:18 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn? " wrote:

On 12/5/2010 12:06 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªnⓢ " wrote:

How is the newer rider going to maintain hard pedaling until he/she
gets
into shape? What about times when hard pedaling may not be
appropriate?

Who said it was going to be easy?
Buy if Buick Lucerne and ditch
the bicycle if it hurts that much.

So Mr. Press is an elitist who does not want to expand the number of
cyclists?

I think some people are still arguing over petty differences in degrees.
The reality *is* that most people expect that using a vehicle means
going 20mph with no effort. That's not what bikes do, much less comfort
bikes! There is nothing at all elitist to point out that those people
have lost touch with reality. If you want to "expand the number of
cyclists", you're not going to do it by lying to them about what to
expect.

The degree of discomfort a road bike can inflict on a new/casual rider
is not petty, but severe enough to make most give up on cycling.


New and casual riders should not buy a road bike. Simple. If they do
they are stupid. If that makes them give up riding, they are not trying
hard enough to find a comfortable bike .

Or trying hard enough to learn something
many others are adept at and find worth doing.

If trikes/bents are so much more comfortable why are the roads not
flooded with them? If you really want one you can buy one. Why don't
people do that? You can blame only yourself.

Most people prefer to resemble Eddy Merckx;
rather than resembling a circus clown.

--
Michael Press

In article ,
James wrote:

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

The degree of discomfort a road bike can inflict on a new/casual rider
is not petty, but severe enough to make most give up on cycling.


Many people I observe around here buy a budget MTB as their first bike,
expecting it to be comfortable and 'have enough gears' to ride over
hills they might encounter.

If they stay with cycling they soon start to wonder why guys on road
bikes go zooming past them, and several have asked me why. It doesn't
take long from there to get them on high pressure slicks, clipless
pedals, bar ends and lowered bars at least. The next step is to ditch
the heavy and unnecessary suspension forks that they were so excited
about when they first bought their MTB.

A road bike is not far away, and when they next ride Melbourne's 200km
'Around The Bay In a Day' an hour faster then the previous year, they're
happy.

Another victim to glamour.

--
Michael Press